Teams & Riders The "MVP" Mathieu Van der Poel Road Discussion Thread

[Berniece]

I don't think there's reason to start panicking yet.

Last year his back issues started in his first or second cross. Now it started after 2 months of competition and having just done a crazy week with 5 crosses. He's at the end of a busy period so it might just be overexertion, hopefully.

Then he should just rest so he can go to training camp on Monday, instead of also riding a race on Sunday. It's not like that race is vital for his performance on the WC a couple of weeks later.

 

[Ricco']

It's not like that race is vital for his performance on the WC a couple of weeks later.

It is mentally.

But can also be worse if the problems remain and he gets again beaten like yesterday.

If he manages to overcome the issues and gets to win again, it's a major confidence boost going into camp (even more when there is only another duel remaining with WVA in Benidorm before Hoogerheide).

 

[Salvarani]

If he knows his back issues might return if him and his team dont manage it... why do five races in a week in the first place.

It is like asking for trouble.

 

[jono]

If he knows his back issues might return if him and his team dont manage it... why do five races in a week in the first place.

It is like asking for trouble.

MVDP should be more concerned about his obvious lack of base fitness (due to, among other things, the stupid decision to try to ride two Grand Tours) that has put him on the back foot to Wout in most of these races than a single flare-up of a chronic back condition.

 

[Salvarani]

MVDP should be more concerned about his obvious lack of base fitness (due to, among other things, the stupid decision to try to ride two Grand Tours) that has put him on the back foot to Wout in most of these races than a single flare-up of a chronic back condition.

This is like the hen or the egg.

Is it the lack of "base fitness" or is it the poorly management of his back issue?

Either way, he probably shouldnt be doing five cross races in a week.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

These are races of 1 hour, and everybody does them. That should not be the issue for a healthy athlete.

Maybe the lack of base form is also partly the reason why his back has started to act up again. Perhaps he has to force himself too much in trying to keep up with Van Aert. Maybe it's more connected than you'd realise. When you are put on the limit, you don't ride the ideal lines and your technique also starts to suffer. I think that also puts extra strain on his back. When Mathieu is in the flow, he takes corners and obstacles at a higher speed than anyone else, meaning he has to dig significantly less deep to keep his speed up. Now he doesn't seem in the flow at all, and every hurdle or corner is like working to get going again, and puts extra strain on his back. My 2 cents.

 

[Ricco']

When you are put on the limit, you don't ride the ideal lines and your technique also starts to suffer. I think that also puts extra strain on his back. When Mathieu is in the flow, he takes corners and obstacles at a higher speed than anyone else, meaning he has to dig significantly less deep to keep his speed up. Now he doesn't seem in the flow at all, and every hurdle or corner is like working to get going again, and puts extra strain on his back. My 2 cents.

More than that, I still didn't see his usual quickness to react out of corners. Usually after a corner there would be a quick snap of the pedals and he was up to speed again in no time. Yesterday was particularly evident, as even before Van Aert dropped him he would take a significant amount of time to close gaps, but it's been a theme throughout the season and I think specially after the break he took to go to the team camp in December. In Antwerp he looked like he was back to his former self in cross but after that, and despite his strong and unexpected Gavere win, he seems to have made little progress (if any) to his early december shape.

 

[Billie]

More than that, I still didn't see his usual quickness to react out of corners. Usually after a corner there would be a quick snap of the pedals and he was up to speed again in no time. Yesterday was particularly evident, as even before Van Aert dropped him he would take a significant amount of time to close gaps, but it's been a theme throughout the season and I think specially after the break he took to go to the team camp in December. In Antwerp he looked like he was back to his former self in cross but after that, and despite his strong and unexpected Gavere win, he seems to have made little progress (if any) to his early december shape.

he has been riding a farcical big gear all CX season. It is some form of training apparantly. It's normal there is less kick out of the corners on such a gear.

Apart from training for Roubaix I don't see why it is usefull.

 

[jono]

he has been riding a farcical big gear all CX season. It is some form of training apparantly. It's normal there is less kick out of the corners on such a gear.

Apart from training for Roubaix I don't see why it is usefull.

Is this an observation or something that has been reported?

 

[pastronef]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1611274866216280072

View: https://twitter.com/Domestique___/status/1611274866216280072

 

[Barkintheeye]

When you are put on the limit, you don't ride the ideal lines and your technique also starts to suffer. I think that also puts extra strain on his back.

In addition I think anyone who has ridden a bike race (or similar) knows how different it feels - physically - when you’re on a good streak and are dropping your opponents compared to when you’re on your limit and with your bare teeth trying to hang on to the wheel in front of you. It’s like you don’t notice lactic acid in the first case while being totally overloaded in the latter. And the latter hurts.

My reading of Koksijde was that Mathieu was riding as usual and really tried to drop Wout. When that didn’t happen and Wout countered and put the pressure back it was just too much for Mathieu who did his best to follow but just couldn’t. Clearly that hurt. Physically.

 

[jono]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1611274866216280072

View: https://twitter.com/Domestique___/status/1611274866216280072

Move to a new team (Quickstep is specified by the author in tweet replies) for greater professionalism (a term the author uses without clarifying its meaning). Translation: drop CX and MTB. I think that will be a tough sell to Mathieu.

 

[Axel Hangleck]

Move to a new team (Quickstep is specified by the author in tweet replies) for greater professionalism (a term the author uses without clarifying its meaning). Translation: drop CX and MTB. I think that will be a tough sell to Mathieu.

I know most people on here would prefer that, but then you're taking away part of what's made him what he is. Would he really flourish in a 100% road team year round, with no breaks for MTB, where there is a different atmosphere?

I think he needs looking after, and mixing disciplines is possible if done properly, like in 2019. Doing both the Giro & Tour was madness, that's not looking after him. In fact, I don't think stage races suit him, unless it's early season for fitness and he can pick 1 or two stages to target, then roll around at the back in the others. Even then it can backfire like Tirreno where he went so deep in poor weather he basically ruined the rest of his classics campaign.

 

[stonerider]

Wout is better than his early years...Mathieu is not. In fact, he has regressed since 2019. And I agree, whoever let him race all these CX races so close together should be fired. Was it the same person that thought riding 2 grand tours back to back was a good idea? The guy needs help.

 

[Sciatic]

Perhaps regarding CX, but certainly MTB, which was my initial point. But not only that it was invented in the US, but precisely when in the late 70s. This was when families started to invest in outdoor recreational activities, and the idea of "fitness" and weight loss became part of popular American culture (diet soft drinks, light beer, those ridiculous morning exercise shows with that tan guy with the frizzy hair and short workout shorts, etc.) And, of course, families had the disposable income to buy equipment. Skiing as a truly popular family activity, to cite another case, began to really take off at this time. The MTB arriving on the scene then, with its pioneering, outdoorsy and grass roots appeal and without a Euro patrimony, but that "Made in the USofA" mark, puerile as this may be, played right into popular American patriotic sensibilities. Moreover, that California (and Colorado, where the USOC is located) was the locus where MTB first took off in the 80s, from the business and marketing perspective, the nascent activity/sport could not have had a more auspicious beginning.

That MTB further created a US branded off-road alternative to road cycling, and again became popular early in the state where USOC has its headquarters, made the sport's Olympic debut at Atlanta in 96 almost a foregone conclusion to its natural marketability, I think. One could even recall that US global influence was at its peak then, in the wake of "end" of the Cold War and the implosion of the Soviet Union, as another possible contributing factor as to why America got it's homegrown sport, which wasn't that popular elsewhere, an Olympic birth at this time. The rivalry between the two superpowers had, after all, marked the Olympics for the past four decades (remember the 1980 and 1984 boycotts by Washington and Moscow respectively). And then with Atlanta 96, as Logic pointed out, MTB took off from there internationally.

Yet with all that, I don’t know anyone who watches Much broadcast MTB races as a fan, whereas even non-savvy cycling fans will watch stages of the Tour or Giro—partly for the travelogue scenery. There’s a difference between what makes a sport popular as a recreational pursuit and what makes a sport good viewing and building fan support. After all very few adults play tackle football yet when it comes time viewership football conquers all.

 

[Extinction]

Yet with all that, I don’t know anyone who watches Much broadcast MTB races as a fan, whereas even non-savvy cycling fans will watch stages of the Tour or Giro—partly for the travelogue scenery. There’s a difference between what makes a sport popular as a recreational pursuit and what makes a sport good viewing and building fan support. After all very few adults play tackle football yet when it comes time viewership football conquers all.

Well football is simply part of Americana in a way that any form of cycling shall never be. The US isn't Belgium. For even many US cyclists, watching a race is like watching grass grow (so I've been told). The cultural mindset is lacking.

 

[DNP-Old]

Move to a new team (Quickstep is specified by the author in tweet replies) for greater professionalism (a term the author uses without clarifying its meaning). Translation: drop CX and MTB. I think that will be a tough sell to Mathieu.

That is not at all what the author is saying. First of all, QuickStep has a history in CX. Not big or anything to write home about, but still something. There was lots of talks between Lefevere and Tormans to set something up together in fact. Same applies to other riders, you'll always see Viviani, Morkov, Keisse and such ride on the track. Despite popular belief, Lefevere is not an idiot. He knows what's best for the team, and if he had a chance to get Mathieu (including his escapades to other disciplines, he'd be all in). But that is precisely the point: with Lefevere there'd be a thought process behind said escapades, with Alpecin I am not too sure. Mathieu's word seems law.

Mathieu himself probably loves the freedom, but it is a legitimate question to ask whether his entourage full of yes men is doing more harm than good. What type of specimen thinks it's a good idea to do a block of spring classics, then a grand tour shortly thereafter, followed by another grand tour after a winter of nothing but bed rest? It's not like he rode said grand tour with an idea, he just did what he always does: whatever the bleep he wants. For us fans it's beautiful to watch, but logic is not something that he knows. In almost every case he gets away with it because he probably has way more raw talent than everyone, but with his physical decline it might even have worked counterproductive.

He is practically 28 now, but still rides around like the headless chicken he was as a 16 year old, riding circles around Mads Pedersen. He hasn't evolved much as a rider, and I too think, I've thought this for quite some time in fact, that a different situation would do him good. He might need a kick up the ass, and I agree Lefevere would be perfect to do so.

 

[Axel Hangleck]

He is practically 28 now, but still rides around like the headless chicken he was as a 16 year old, riding circles around Mads Pedersen. He hasn't evolved much as a rider, and I too think, I've thought this for quite some time in fact, that a different situation would do him good. He might need a kick up the ass, and I agree Lefevere would be perfect to do so.

Yeah, riding conservatively seems like anathema to him; but he did in the 2021 road Worlds, but probably because of fitness. However, as I mentioned elsewhere, that's how he won 3 XCO World Cups; a small attack to split the group, then waiting until late in the final lap to go 'all in' to win. He can do it, but only rarely - does he get bored?

 

[Salvarani]

Yeah, riding conservatively seems like anathema to him; but he did in the 2021 road Worlds, but probably because of fitness. However, as I mentioned elsewhere, that's how he won 3 XCO World Cups; a small attack to split the group, then waiting until late in the final lap to go 'all in' to win. He can do it, but only rarely - does he get bored?

Pure speculation, may he suffer from ADHD?

It would explain some of his behavior and decision-making.

 

[stonerider]

As a cycling prodigy, things probably came way too easy for him when he was young. He developed bad habits and lacks discipline.

 

[Salvarani]

As a cycling prodigy, things probably came way too easy for him when he was young. He developed bad habits and lacks discipline.

It could also be this and he developed a persona he has trouble keeping up with.

Most reasonable explanation is he may have peaked early and injuries/poor management of himself has been his worst enemy.

 

[jono]

I guess all of you are right then. MVDP is an impetuous moron with so self-discipline. It's no wonder he's never had any success.

(I do agree that trying to do a GT double last year was dumb, and I'd prefer he didn't really bother with any Grand Tours, ever).

 

[Boes]

I would like to see what Jumbo could do with MVP. It'll never happen as long of WVA is there, but could be a great fit.

 

[stonerider]

I would like to see what Jumbo could do with MVP. It'll never happen as long of WVA is there, but could be a great fit.

First he would have to listen to Jumbo...that may be the problem. But I also believe his current team tries to race him in too many stage races for media exposure, which isn't good for him as we've seen. He can be so strong but at the same time so fragile.

 

[Ricco']

But I also believe his current team tries to race him in too many stage races for media exposure, which isn't good for him as we've seen. He can be so strong but at the same time so fragile.

I'm not sure about that.

Last year he started in 3 stage races (the 2 GTs and Settimana Coppi e Bartali when he returned to racing)
In 2021 he started in 4 (UAE Tour - did 1 stage before the team pulled out with covid -, Tirreno, Tour de Suisse and Tour de France - did only 1 week)
In 2020 he did 3 (Algarve before the Covid break, Tirreno and BinckBank)
In 2019 which was his best year on the road, he did 4

The 2 grand tour thing last year was moronic, no argue about that, but I don't see a problem with the amount of stage races he does, because those are also needed if he wants to be at his best in his main goals. He can't get the proper amount of race fitness doing only one day races.

The problem may, on the other hand, be on the amount of effort he puts in every single race day of a stage race. Tirreno 2021 left him arguably knackered to the following classics but he isn't so fragile as to be a guy who isn't strong enough to do short stage races. In 2020 he did a long solo to win BinckBank Tour the day before surpassing the best expectations to do Roche-aux-Faucons with the 2nd best group and finish 6th in LBL.