Teams & Riders The "MVP" Mathieu Van der Poel Road Discussion Thread

[Didinho]

Zürich WC is at the end of September, so almost 2 months extra in the rainbow jersey?

 

[dercuforever]

It is not the first time I've seen it :
MVDP is not wasting energy ;
- Let himself get dropped early in the race, to ensure never using energy early on. Could get himself in huge trouble (PR 2022 - RRV 2023 again I think). Others or his teammates bring him back on the flat.
- Does not cover many moves : One could go and he then would have to make an enormous effort to get back. Happenned in RVV IRRC (not directly in the wheel of Pog) He gets bring back by others or make a less violent effort.
- Does not attack much before his final move.
- Does not take more turns than others.

Today it was clear to me that he had made the least amount of effort of the big 4 and I was wondering why they did not make him take more turns.

Clearly today he would have won even without this, since he was so strong on that route, but still.

 

[SHAD0W93]

It is not the first time I've seen it :
MVDP is not wasting energy ;
- Let himself get dropped early in the race, to ensure never using energy early on. Could get himself in huge trouble (PR 2022 - RRV 2023 again I think). Others or his teammates bring him back on the flat.
- Does not cover many moves : One could go and he then would have to make an enormous effort to get back. Happenned in RVV IRRC (not directly in the wheel of Pog) He gets bring back by others or make a less violent effort.
- Does not attack much before his final move.
- Does not take more turns than others.

Today it was clear to me that he had made the least amount of effort of the big 4 and I was wondering why they did not make him take more turns.

Clearly today he would have won even without this, since he was so strong on that route, but still.

Don’t hate the player hate the game. He’s using his strengths and brain to win. It’s up to the other teams to bury him when he gets dropped back or force him to cover attacks.

 

[dercuforever]

Don’t hate the player hate the game. He’s using his strengths and brain to win. It’s up to the other teams to bury him when he gets dropped back or force him to cover attacks.

Don't get me wrong, I love MVDP. I'm pointing out that he is a beast, but also very focused and very smart.
I do agree with you.

 

[Riek s]

It is not the first time I've seen it :
MVDP is not wasting energy ;
- Let himself get dropped early in the race, to ensure never using energy early on. Could get himself in huge trouble (PR 2022 - RRV 2023 again I think). Others or his teammates bring him back on the flat.
- Does not cover many moves : One could go and he then would have to make an enormous effort to get back. Happenned in RVV IRRC (not directly in the wheel of Pog) He gets bring back by others or make a less violent effort.
- Does not attack much before his final move.
- Does not take more turns than others.

Today it was clear to me that he had made the least amount of effort of the big 4 and I was wondering why they did not make him take more turns.

Clearly today he would have won even without this, since he was so strong on that route, but still.

He just knows how WVA rides by now

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Don't get me wrong, I love MVDP. I'm pointing out that he is a beast, but also very focused and very smart.
I do agree with you.

the thing is, he used to attack a lot further and do strong turns when he was younger. Which ended up in losing him races, even though everyone would applaud him for racing so attractively.

Now he's 28. Time to use the brain and use his biggest strengths to win big races. He could not have done it more perfectly then this season.

 

[Ricco']

It is not the first time I've seen it :
MVDP is not wasting energy ;
- Let himself get dropped early in the race, to ensure never using energy early on. Could get himself in huge trouble (PR 2022 - RRV 2023 again I think). Others or his teammates bring him back on the flat.
- Does not cover many moves : One could go and he then would have to make an enormous effort to get back. Happenned in RVV IRRC (not directly in the wheel of Pog) He gets bring back by others or make a less violent effort.
- Does not attack much before his final move.
- Does not take more turns than others.

Today it was clear to me that he had made the least amount of effort of the big 4 and I was wondering why they did not make him take more turns.

Clearly today he would have won even without this, since he was so strong on that route, but still.

Also the position within the bunch. Since they entered the circuit I've noticed that WVA was in position 2 or 3 of the group a lot of time, while he was almost or even outside the top-20 a lot. I think that this is also something that hinders WVA a lot on this long races, he spends a lot of time in the first positions and even on the wheel of a teammate, being 2nd of a group makes him eat much more wind than being 15th or 20th.

 

[Red Rick]

the thing is, he used to attack a lot further and do strong turns when he was younger. Which ended up in losing him races, even though everyone would applaud him for racing so attractively.

Now he's 28. Time to use the brain and use his biggest strengths to win big races. He could not have done it more perfectly then this season.

It was also different races where it was easier to get punished for racing too aggressively. And now he's just physiologically better too.

 

[SHAD0W93]

Also the position within the bunch. Since they entered the circuit I've noticed that WVA was in position 2 or 3 of the group a lot of time, while he was almost or even outside the top-20 a lot. I think that this is also something that hinders WVA a lot on this long races, he spends a lot of time in the first positions and even on the wheel of a teammate, being 2nd of a group makes him eat much more wind than being 15th or 20th.

He’s just copying Vinge since doing that doesn’t seem to affect Vinge at all.

 

[skippo12]

He just knows how WVA rides by now

Harsh but fair. MVP learned how to win even though he isn´t necessarly the strongest (clearly was today). In MSR he let WVA close the gap before he attacked himself. Today he wasn´t spending as much energy chasing early attacks (Pogacar-Evenepoel). As far as race instincts and smarts go he seems to be a step ahead of the other "mutants".

 

[Blanco]

He did try two times, earlier, at about 90km and 70, to force a selection, I guess because there were two many Belgians for his liking, but he didn't succeed. He naturally didn't feel he must response to attacks, cause as I said there were many Belgians, and tyhey were riding conservative which benefited Mathieu, meaning they would close all attacks. As far as Remco concerns, I think he noticed that he is struggling a bit on this course, so he didn't respond imediately, unlike Pogacar. Then also Italians being aggressive also benefited him, he let the Belgians do all the work. In the end, he get a perfect situation, mano-a-mano on his favorite terrain. Outcome could only be one.

 

[Didinho]

He did try two times, earlier, at about 90km and 70, to force a selection, I guess because there were two many Belgians for his liking, but he didn't succeed. He naturally didn't feel he must response to attacks, cause as I said there were many Belgians, and tyhey were riding conservative which benefited Mathieu, meaning they would close all attacks. As far as Remco concerns, I think he noticed that he is struggling a bit on this course, so he didn't respond imediately, unlike Pogacar. Then also Italians being aggressive also benefited him, he let the Belgians do all the work. In the end, he get a perfect situation, mano-a-mano on his favorite terrain. Outcome could only be one.

Yes and these 2 attacks were really strong. First one on the steep hill and the 2nd was a long hard one. Between he wasn't much in the front but the 2 times Remco attacked (I think) and with the Trentin crash he was closing gaps himself. I was still thinking he had done some unnecessary efforts because of 'bad placing'. In the end he was just that strong.

He needed a new excuse to wear white shorts again. Will be lovely to see him 14 months in full white kit and a new bike offcourse!

 

[jmdirt]

So...MvdP needs to work with his shoes sponsor (I won't call them out here) to make sure that a slide out doesn't cost him a win.

 

[senna6541]

His season is a testament to the most important quality a champion can have - resiliency and self-belief. Things weren't trending so good for MVDP personally or professionally after Worlds last year, and then the back flare up after the Kerstperiode brought more questions. We'll see what happens from here, but hope he gets the chance to get back on the MTB stage in a big way in '24. As for the road, if he wants/can accomplish some new things like LBL, great. But with all the great riders in this generation just being the absolute best at what you do is more than enough - especially when you are tops in 2 other disciplines...

 

[gavia88]

I don't think the route is out, but IIRC it's supposed to be hilly but not mountanious?

Or there was some proposal and I've tried to ban it from my memory

oh, yes it is, for a long time already. Not very inspiring. Slighty more difficult than Bergen. Normally it would be the typical wait till the last 2 laps kind of route. But with this generation of riders and maybe the need for some teams to make it hard to not let come to much people after the climbs, we can hope it still delivers.

 

[Big Doopie]

This was as definitive a race as possible.

VDP put in a performance that I rank above Remco’s last year or LeMond’s in 1983 (my two favorite riders btw). And if you even thought of questioning his superiority, he also crashed and dealt with a loose shoe.

And still he put in more time to a class chasing group.

Pog was also impressive (but on a different level entirely). He had to do much more chasing from much further out (as the only member of his team). He even wasted energy chasing Remco!! However to say he could have hung with VDP until the end is fanboy talk.

VDP is as deserving of this win as anybody in the decades I have watched this sport.

 

[Izzyeviel]

What a fantastic performance. Chapeau MvDP!

What struck me was not that his performance was especially mega, but rather how sensible it was & how calm he was. He dipped his toes in the water & just pushed off with ease at the right moment. He made it look easy.

 

[senna6541]

I'll take '89. Greatest cycling picture of all time for us Americans. https://www.google.com/imgres?imgur...hUKEwjY-6m-o8mAAxUrN0QIHSNFA4kQMygFegUIARDbAQ

 

[Big Doopie]

omg. Of course! One of my favs. The Dutch/Flemish(?) commentator even exclaiming “Holy Sh!te when he came back on Fignon.

However, on purely domination/exploit terms VDP ranks above that (as do Remco, LeMond 1983 and Hinault 1980) all on courses that without any doubt crowned the strongest rider.

 

[jaylew]

He did try two times, earlier, at about 90km and 70, to force a selection, I guess because there were two many Belgians for his liking, but he didn't succeed. He naturally didn't feel he must response to attacks, cause as I said there were many Belgians, and tyhey were riding conservative which benefited Mathieu, meaning they would close all attacks. As far as Remco concerns, I think he noticed that he is struggling a bit on this course, so he didn't respond imediately, unlike Pogacar. Then also Italians being aggressive also benefited him, he let the Belgians do all the work. In the end, he get a perfect situation, mano-a-mano on his favorite terrain. Outcome could only be one.

This. I don't think he was any more rested than Wout, for example. As you say he did his attacking early. And as well as possibly noticing Remco wasn't dealing with the course well, in his earlier attacks he could see who was the strongest along with himself and he knew Mads and particularly Pog weren't going to let any Remco attacks go unanswered.

I also think he knew he had great legs and felt fairly confident he could bridge to any attack if necessary. And any attack by someone not named Remco or Wout would be pulled back by the 4-5 Belgians in the group. He's clearly improved tactically.

 

[LookProGoSlow]

So the main question now is: what's the next race he gets to wear the kit (and ride the new bike!)

 

[meat puppet]

Would love to see his power file for sure. A shame he does not upload them anymore. In my book MVDP earned much respect when he did.

Especially yesterday's normalised power must be insane, as the city circuit was like the textbook NP buster.

 

[Red Rick]

oh, yes it is, for a long time already. Not very inspiring. Slighty more difficult than Bergen. Normally it would be the typical wait till the last 2 laps kind of route. But with this generation of riders and maybe the need for some teams to make it hard to not let come to much people after the climbs, we can hope it still delivers.

I just vomited in my coffee. Under 250km too

 

[steffr222]

oh, yes it is, for a long time already. Not very inspiring. Slighty more difficult than Bergen. Normally it would be the typical wait till the last 2 laps kind of route. But with this generation of riders and maybe the need for some teams to make it hard to not let come to much people after the climbs, we can hope it still delivers.

I think the organisers actually keep saying the route will be unveiled in march 2024?!

So where does that come from?

Edit: lol man that was too early for me, I‘m sorry, didn‘t get it

 

[OlavEH]

That route wasn't much inspiring. MvdP should rather aim for a RVV-PR double and the Olympics next season. I don't even think he should aim to peak at MSR, but not rather not before RVV. And also hope that he rides Amstel.