Teams & Riders The "MVP" Mathieu Van der Poel Road Discussion Thread

[Barkintheeye]

Van der Poel is now one of few "hat trick"-riders that have managed both to win the World Championship Road plus 2 monuments in the same year:

Since 2000 only Boonen managed the same feat and only TB and MVDP won more than 1 Monument the same year although some other notable riders came close:

HAT TRICK RIDERS since 2000	Tom Boonen	Mathieu van der Poel	Mario Cipollini	Óscar Freire	Paolo Bettini	Peter Sagan
Year	2005	2023	2002	2004	2006	2016
ROAD WORLD CHAMPIONSHIPS	1	1	1	1	1	1
MILANO-SAN REMO	8	1	1	1	74	12
RONDE VAN VLAANDEREN	1	2	9	-	7	1
PARIS-ROUBAIX	1	1	-	-	-	11
LIEGE-BASTOGNE-LIEGE	-	-	-	-	2	-
LOMBARDIA	-	-	-	-	1	-
AMSTEL GOLD RACE	-	-	-	-	8	-
FLECHE VALLONNE	-	-	-	-	12	-
GENT-WEVELGEM	26	-	1	-	-	1
STRADE BIANCHE	-	15	-	-	-	4
DWARS DOOR VLAANDEREN	80	-	-	-	-	-
KUURNE BRUSSEL KUURNE	22	-	-	-	-	7
BRUGGE DE PANNE	-	-	-	-	-	-
OMLOOP HET NIEUWSBLAAD	-	-	-	-	-	2
E3 HARELBEKE	1	2	-	-	-	2

 

[Volderke]

I think we (= the ones loving a good MvdP stomp) can now start thanking the protesters. They allowed MvdP to go into the finale in a more comfortable way:

Before the World Cycling Championships started, the race was halted for more than half an hour due to a climate protest. Subsequent winner Mathieu van der Poel made a virtue of necessity and paid a visit to the local population, although he only had interest in their toilet.

Several climate activists had glued themselves to the Scottish road surface, forcing the entire World Cup circus to be stopped. It was immediately clear - also for the riders - that it would be a long wait. Here and there, the local flora was sprinkled by the riders. But the real smart ones, like Mathieu van der Poel, do it differently.
"I entered a house," he said on the press conference after his world title. "The race would still be quite long and I had to go to the toilet."

"I don't think I was the only one who did it this way. Thank you anyway to the people who received us."

Van der Poel ging tijdens protest huis binnen voor toiletbezoek: "Dank aan de mensen die me ontvingen"

Voor het WK wielrennen losbarstte, lag de wedstrijd meer dan een halfuur stil door een klimaatprotest. Latere winnaar Mathieu van der Poel maakte van de nood een deugd en bracht een bezoekje aan de lokale bevolking, al had hij enkel interesse in hun toilet.

sporza.be

 

[OlavEH]

2020 and 2012 were both pretty classic style circuits still. 2020 was very hard, I admit that, but the circuit style with the hardest climb last did lock the race up completely. Maybe it would be more aggressive these days because the best guys are so much better than the rest, but whatever.

I forgot 2012 on my list. Corrected now. 2020 was still two levels above Valkelburg in terms of difficulty. Degenkolb was nr 4, only 5 seconds behind in Valkenburg. Big difference from 2012. I don't think the circuit style is the biggest problem, but the profile and/or general route design. Wide and good roads without steeper climbs that is much easier to control. Zürich next year may be that type. I'm mostly tired of routes that end with small gaps, and (historically) riders like Freire, Sagan, Matthews, Kristoff in the top or almost in most editions.

 

[gavia88]

The most recent WC that was close to typical was last year. It was terrible.

I guess we must distinguish between routes with a long flat section and only 1 or 2 climbs vs routes that are up and down all throughout, but Zurich is the worse kind.

Last year was not terrible I think. It was above average. Very dangerous early break (or peloton split). Only the way other teams let Remco get in a great position for his solo was maybe a bit dissapointing, in the fact a duel amongst the favorite on the hill didn't happen. So, I think it was better then Imola, Innsbruck, Bergen to mention a few recent WC's. But of course this year and Leuven were much better.

Next year in Zurich looks a bit to typical for my taste as well. Probably smooth Swiss roads, distance rather short for a WC, pretty mediocrate climbs and a long second half before riders get back to any climb. But it all depends if 1 or 2 strong teams want to drill it from far or that to many teams just are happy with a reduced bunch sprint. But it all depends if 1 or 2 strong teams want to drill it from far or that to many teams just are happy with a reduced bunch sprint. For example, will Belgium make it hard to improve Remco's chances or will they ride defensively to let van Aert win a sprint of 15-20 men? Ect. I guess if teams like Denmark (Pedersen), Belgium (van Aert), Italy and the Netherlands (MvdP), France (Alapilipe) are thinking their best chances against Pogacar on this route is waiting till very late in the race it's not gonna be watchable, like Bergen.

 

[Ricco']

Let's hope that at least it won't be as unwatchable as Bergen was.

 

[Red Rick]

Last year was not terrible I think. It was above average. Very dangerous early break (or peloton split). Only the way other teams let Remco get in a great position for his solo was maybe a bit dissapointing, in the fact a duel amongst the favorite on the hill didn't happen. So, I think it was better then Imola, Innsbruck, Bergen to mention a few recent WC's. But of course this year and Leuven were much better.

Next year in Zurich looks a bit to typical for my taste as well. Probably smooth Swiss roads, distance rather short for a WC, pretty mediocrate climbs and a long second half before riders get back to any climb. But it all depends if 1 or 2 strong teams want to drill it from far or that to many teams just are happy with a reduced bunch sprint. But it all depends if 1 or 2 strong teams want to drill it from far or that to many teams just are happy with a reduced bunch sprint. For example, will Belgium make it hard to improve Remco's chances or will they ride defensively to let van Aert win a sprint of 15-20 men? Ect. I guess if teams like Denmark (Pedersen), Belgium (van Aert), Italy and the Netherlands (MvdP), France (Alapilipe) are thinking their best chances against Pogacar on this route is waiting till very late in the race it's not gonna be watchable, like Bergen.

It's a bit conventionally harder than this year. It's not a reduced sprinters course IMO, mainly because the top 3 of yesterday + Evenepoel are so, so much better than the conventional sprinters and their domestiques.

IMO it's a route where Van Aert and Pogacar have a better chance against MvdP, where Evenepoel isn't gonna get crushed by the washing machine, and where Pogacar probably should really want this guy named Primoz Roglic in his team as well

 

[gavia88]

It's a bit conventionally harder than this year. It's not a reduced sprinters course IMO, mainly because the top 3 of yesterday + Evenepoel are so, so much better than the conventional sprinters and their domestiques.

IMO it's a route where Van Aert and Pogacar have a better chance against MvdP, where Evenepoel isn't gonna get crushed by the washing machine, and where Pogacar probably should really want this guy named Primoz Roglic in his team as well

I don't think a reduced bunch sprint is going to happen with this generation of riders neither. I just wanted to enphasise that it on the strategy of the most important countries how the circuit will be raced. Results can differ from a Evenepoel or Pogacar solo, the 3 strongest riders sprinting for it or even to a 10-15 men sprint.

 

[andrew_s]

Is he seriously not going to race anymore this year? That would be a shame...

If he wants to do the mountain biking at the Olympics next year, he'll have to switch to XCO and do some of the XCO world cups.
As things stand, the Dutch men are too low in the rankings to qualify any riders. Last time round, Milan Vader was a consistent top 5 MTBer and got many of the required points, but like Matthieu, he's switched to the road and doesn't have any (hardly).

 

[DNP-Old]

If he wants to do the mountain biking at the Olympics next year, he'll have to switch to XCO and do some of the XCO world cups.
As things stand, the Dutch men are too low in the rankings to qualify any riders. Last time round, Milan Vader was a consistent top 5 MTBer and got many of the required points, but like Matthieu, he's switched to the road and doesn't have any (hardly).

At no point was Vader a consistent top 5 mtber, let's be real now. He has 6 major race top 5's in his life, that's including U23 and juniors.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

If he wants to do the mountain biking at the Olympics next year, he'll have to switch to XCO and do some of the XCO world cups.
As things stand, the Dutch men are too low in the rankings to qualify any riders. Last time round, Milan Vader was a consistent top 5 MTBer and got many of the required points, but like Matthieu, he's switched to the road and doesn't have any (hardly).

tbh he already switched ideas. He said yesterday that if he can't top 10 world ch this week and place himself for Olympics that way, he'll ride the road race instead, because the parcours of the road race really suits him.

Back of the mind I think he knows the XCO story is gonna be too far fetched

 

[Ricco']

If he wants to do the mountain biking at the Olympics next year, he'll have to switch to XCO and do some of the XCO world cups.
As things stand, the Dutch men are too low in the rankings to qualify any riders. Last time round, Milan Vader was a consistent top 5 MTBer and got many of the required points, but like Matthieu, he's switched to the road and doesn't have any (hardly).

Netherlands should forget about qualifying by ranking, it's borderline impossible right now, I believe. Their best chance is with Mathieu next saturday. And for that, his race won't be with the gold candidates, will be with Martins Blums, Jose Ulloa and the australians. The two better NOCs next sunday who won't qualify through nations ranking will have a place in Paris. Right now the NOCs outside the ranking qualification, beside Netherlands, are Israel, Colombia, Argentina, Mexico, Australia, Latvia, Puerto Rico, Hungary, Slovenia, Slovakia, Portugal, Ukraine, Japan, etc.

He might even not need a top-10 for that. Portugal got a spot in Tokyo in the Women's MTB race with a 24th place in the U23 race of the 2019 World Championships, iirc.

 

[DNP-Old]

Netherlands should forget about qualifying by ranking, it's borderline impossible right now, I believe. Their best chance is with Mathieu next saturday. And for that, his race won't be with the gold candidates, will be with Martins Blums, Jose Ulloa and the australians. The two better NOCs next sunday who won't qualify through nations ranking will have a place in Paris. Right now the NOCs outside the ranking qualification, beside Netherlands, are Israel, Colombia, Argentina, Mexico, Australia, Latvia, Puerto Rico, Hungary, Slovenia, Slovakia, Portugal, Ukraine, Japan, etc.

Van der Poel believes a top 15 would suffice, I find it quite risky. Blums is really good this year, and Latvia is far from a top 20. Meaning a slightly above average Cink, who on his part was stellar in Leogang not too ago, or Ulloa would already make things really difficult.

Edit: Cink doesn't matter, I was looking at the old rankings. Czechia is 18th.

 

[Ricco']

Van der Poel believes a top 15 would suffice, I find it quite risky. Blums is really good this year, and Latvia is far from a top 20. Meaning a slightly above average Cink, who on his part was stellar in Leogang not too ago, or Ulloa would already make things really difficult.

Edit: Cink doesn't matter, I was looking at the old rankings. Czechia is 18th.

I also believe that if they don't qualify through the elite race, as a last resort the U23 race also provides 1 place to the NOCs who failed to qualify through the other ways. And in that race they have Tom Schellekens who has been in the top-5 of some U23 World Cups this season.

I honestly think they will eventually get a place, might just have confirmation of that until the last minute.

 

[Axel Hangleck]

At no point was Vader a consistent top 5 mtber, let's be real now. He has 6 major race top 5's in his life, that's including U23 and juniors.

Yes, he had a short period in 2019/2020 when he got some decent results, including 3rd in the Euros in Brno, followed by a good result in Val di Sole. And in the 'Covid era' World Cups of autumn 2020, he managed a 2nd & 3rd, behind two riders who've never won a XCO World Cup since.

XCODATA.com | Mountainbike results, statistics and rankings

The largest Mountainbike Cross Country (XCO) database: races, results, rankings, riders, teams, statistics and more.

www.xcodata.com

 

[Berniece]

After the race he said his palmares was almost complete. What is he missing that is realistically within his capabilities? Lombardia and Liege are possible in the perfect conditions and with a bit of luck I would think

 

[Salvarani]

After the race he said his palmares was almost complete. What is he missing that is realistically within his capabilities? Lombardia and Liege are possible in the perfect conditions and with a bit of luck I would think

An Olympic Gold, I reckon.

 

[proffate]

Lombardia and Liege are possible in the perfect conditions and with a bit of luck I would think

But does he think so? Can MVDP turn himself into 2011 Gilbert with the right mindset and training plan?

I'm wondering if MVDP will fall prey to the cursor of the rainbow. He's already a marked man in most races and his tactics require little subterfuge, so I'm hoping not. Plus he has plenty of practice wearing rainbows in the winter.

 

[proffate]

I suspect he might asses after worlds.

There aren't that many great races left in the season for him that really suits him.

Those Canadian races should be perfect for him.

 

[Blanco]

After the race he said his palmares was almost complete. What is he missing that is realistically within his capabilities? Lombardia and Liege are possible in the perfect conditions and with a bit of luck I would think

Olympic Gold is realistic goal, course is good for him.
Liege could be a next goal, he just needs to improve his climbing a bit, and he has a shot.
Lombardia is a long shot, but if the easier route come along, like 2014, he should give it a try.
Ronde all-time record could be a goal.
Another Worlds also.
Green jersey could be a goal, but I wouldn't bother if I was him.
And so on...

 

[Salvarani]

If I was MVDP... I would try to win as many MSR, Ronde, PR and Worlds as I can.

Olympics should be a big target next season, perhaps the biggest one, and going for the above as well. Hoping to win one or two of those if possible.

Not chase a LBL or Lombardia and potentially spreading himself too thin in the other ones, which he has a much greater chance at winning a few times more.

 

[The fridge in the blue trees]

Paris-Tours
Gent-Wevelgem
E3

 

[DNP-Old]

I fail to see how anything Olympics RR related is realistic to anyone. As of next year there's hardly 90 riders starting, with the biggest teams consisting of no less than 4 riders. That thing could legit be over from the very first meter.

 

[Wyndbrook]

Those Canadian races should be perfect for him.

Road Organisers need to follow their cross colleagues and get their cheque books out for generous start money.

 

[Oldermanish]

An Olympic Gold, I reckon.

More of a lottery than the Worlds RR!

 

[Blanco]

I fail to see how anything Olympics RR related is realistic to anyone. As of next year there's hardly 90 riders starting, with the biggest teams consisting of no less than 4 riders. That thing could legit be over from the very first meter.

So he shouldn't try then..?