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Teams & Riders The "MVP" Mathieu Van der Poel Road Discussion Thread

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Aimar16

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magliaroz said:
Fans of cycling in all its forms may not like it, but Road Race achievements are what really matters and really makes history.
This one RR World Title is already bigger than the 5 times he won it in Cyclocross.
Click to expand...

meat puppet said:
Well I do. The road peloton consists of a deeper field of ultimately better athletes. So, as the French know, it is "la rue" that determines what counts
Click to expand...

There is no question that the RR world championship title is more prestigious than cyclocross or cross-country and the strength of the opponents is also much higher quality. But if you win an Olympic gold medal it's still a freaking Olympic gold medal no matter what event you win it in (well, maybe unless it's in a joke sport like swimming where there are a trillion different events and it exists just to pump up the medal count for some country).

magliaroz said:
Pidcock's stage win in TdF is more relevant than his Olympic Gold in MTB for sure too.
It sucks, but it is what it is.
Click to expand...

I'm not so sure about that, especially after the way he won that stage. It was a very nice downhill, but the stage win was basically a gift that no one else could win but him.
 
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Berniece

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gavia88 said:
Well, I think there are still quite a few races and goals on which he can focus I think:

- an olympic gold medal (whatever discipline)

-World titel MTB

-add World title gravel and some track event to have a world title in 2 extra disciplines

-a stage and wearing the red jersey in the Vuelta (like he did already both in Tour and Giro)

-European title on the road

-completing the 5 monuments (but this is really stretching his fysical possibilities probably)

-green jersey in the Tour

-collecting some more stages in the Tour

-showing his versatility by winning a (medium) mountain stage and/or prologue in Tour (or Giro or Vuelta), like riders like van Aert and Sagan did in the past

-collecting a win in all big cobbled classic (surprisingly many gaps on his palmares regarding those races), so Omloop het Nieuwsblad, Kuurne, GW, E-3, Nokere, le Samyn, Scheldeprijs and Paris-Brussels

-getting the RVV record (4 wins)

-getting on the same number of Cyclocross world titles like Erik de Vlaeminck (so 7)

-winning the world cup classification in MTB

-winning a stage in all big stage races below the grand tours (so, ha already has 3 in Tireno and 2 in Swiss, so that means still a stage in PN, Bask Country, Catalonia, Romandie and Dauphine)

-winning some races in own country, like Veenendaal - Veenendaal and Volta Limburg classic or better if one of the grand tours will begin again in the Netherlands

-winning some other semi-classics, like
-Paris - Tours, Fleche Wallon, Plouay, Hamburg, Frankfurt, Quebec,
Montreal, Italian semi-classics

-Dutch national title in ITT
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I think he only cares about Olympic gold, WC MTB, the 5 monuments (maybe) and the red jersey (maybe). I don’t think he actually cares about all the rest. He said his palmares was almost complete I don’t think he means it’s missing Omloop
 
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meat puppet

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Axel Hangleck said:
Sorry to disagree, but the XCO Olympic gold is the premier title in MTB racing. That's not the case for the Road Olympic title.....
There's some classic roadie ignorance on display.....
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Respectfully disagree. The biggest race thing does not address the real point, which concerns the depth and quality of the fields and athletes.

The way I see it is that when top brass is present, Pidcock gets spanked pretty badly on the road regardless of the speciality at hand, but also in crosses when a certain duo partakes, yet is usually able to hold his own on the MTB. This is about the tip of the pyramid, mind. The other point is that road base is larger. Mostly because of money.

On this point I am actually quite willing to change my mind if a good argument based on power data, but not on the nebulous concept of "skills", is presented.

Thus far you have contributed a rude but not very convincing haha emoticon and innuendo via unconventional punctuation.
 
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proffate

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magliaroz said:
Fans of cycling in all its forms may not like it, but Road Race achievements are what really matters and really makes history.
This one RR World Title is already bigger than the 5 times he won it in Cyclocross.
Pidcock's stage win in TdF is more relevant than his Olympic Gold in MTB for sure too.
It sucks, but it is what it is.
Click to expand...
heh, so Rui Costa had a better palmares than MVDP until this week. OK.
 
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meat puppet

meat puppet

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proffate said:
You like MVDP because of his FTP??
Click to expand...
Quite the opposite, actually. FTP festes like GTs are boring in comparison to one day races. I also value handling skills highly.

But you know the power-duration relationship extends to durations shorter than the metabolic threshold region and also beyond longer than that.

If arguments about "better" in endurance sports are not grounded in something similar, we are discussing mainly aesthetics. That would actually be interesting. What is IMHO less interesting is when one's aesthetic preferences are masked as stand-ins for something else, in this case the "better".
 
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Salvarani said:
Sure, but probably something he would like to win or something he may have been refering to with "palmares almost complete". The question is road or MTB. He got unfinished business with the latter.
Click to expand...
As infrequent as the events come up he'd have to train for the one he wants to win. Usually that would need to be the first event run and then attempt the second. Hard choice, for sure. Pidcock's win would suggest MTB would be the surest bet.
 
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proffate

proffate

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meat puppet said:
Quite the opposite, actually. FTP festes like GTs are boring in comparison to one day races. I also value handling skills highly.

But you know the power-duration relationship extends to durations shorter than the metabolic threshold region and also beyond longer than that.

If arguments about "better" in endurance sports are not grounded in something similar, we are discussing mainly aesthetics. That would actually be interesting. What is IMHO less interesting is when one's aesthetic preferences are masked as stand-ins for something else, in this case the "better".
Click to expand...
It is an arbitrary decision for you to proclaim cycling a sport where "better" can only mean "more able to press hard on the pedals" even if you give the duration of the effort some wiggle room. The point of the sport is to get across the line first. Everything else is a means to an end.

Unless you think that Pidcock's hypothetical [an]aerobic twin, whose descending skills are on par with Sebastien Reichenbach's, is no worse of a bike racer than the Pidcock we know and love --- an utterly indefensible position to take --- you have to admit that "better" comprises something besides pure power output.

If you're gonna harp on about the "depth and quality" of the field to stake your claim, then I guess Merckx was a joke because the level of competition at the time was surely lower than now as the total population of the road cycling-participating part of the world has increased dramatically since the 70s.

To the original point: it is far, far more interesting to consider a rider who can beat the best at every major cycling discipline than one who excels only on the road, mainly because it has never happened on the mens' side. Winning Olympic gold on the MTB would make MVDP far more unique and arguably the best male cyclist of any kind ever. If Merckx were alive and racing today, it would be harder for him to add MTB worlds/Olympics to his palmares than to add another WCRR or GT. This is not because MTB worlds is on its own harder than RR worlds but because he'd be competing against a whole other set of competitors he hadn't proven he could beat yet and whose only focus in life is MTB. This is like asking if Michael Jordan would be GOATier if he had added a World Series (MVP) or a 7th NBA championship. Clearly the World Series would have enshrined him as a greater legend.
 
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Oldermanish said:
As infrequent as the events come up he'd have to train for the one he wants to win. Usually that would need to be the first event run and then attempt the second. Hard choice, for sure. Pidcock's win would suggest MTB would be the surest bet.
Click to expand...
So MvP is lining up across from Pidcock for short track MTB. This would be a good litmus test for the dream double Salvarani was thinking of. If he wins it....does he build a season around that double or pick one? He's fairly consistent performer when it means something to him and extraordinary if the course favors him.
 
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stekelegel

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Right now he is only riding for automatic qualification for Paris MTB. He has no real ambitions for top 5 finish, but you never know with MVDP.
The goal was to ride the Paris MTB race, part because in MTB races its easier to win if you are the best, part because he likes some variation. A classic olympic road race is always a bit of a lottery because of the small teams. However, the paris road race has a bit of a Glasgow parcours, so he wil probably do both now.
 
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