Teams & Riders The "MVP" Mathieu Van der Poel Road Discussion Thread

[Netserk]

I think it's a more than fine route, better than Bergen, and we'll get plenty of more hilly routes in the coming years. It's a long circuit that favours a peloton, but it's not a given that it will end in a reduced bunch sprint.

 

[Red Rick]

I think it's a more than fine route, better than Bergen, and we'll get plenty of more hilly routes in the coming years. It's a long circuit that favours a peloton, but it's not a given that it will end in a reduced bunch sprint.

It's literally the 4th in a row suited to the same type of rider though. And it's been 8 of the last 10. Only Imola and Innsbruck were truly hard circuits.

 

[DNP-Old]

So the main question now is: what's the next race he gets to wear the kit (and ride the new bike!)

Unless he adds a race or two for the sake of wearing the jersey, it might honestly be Strade Bianche.

 

[Berniece]

It's literally the 4th in a row suited to the same type of rider though. And it's been 8 of the last 10. Only Imola and Innsbruck were truly hard circuits.

That’s true, I wouldn’t mind seeing more diverse WC profiles. Sprinters barely get a shot, and the same for pure climbers. Top favourites have been the same people past few years.

 

[Barkintheeye]

This. I don't think he was any more rested than Wout, for example. As you say he did his attacking early. And as well as possibly noticing Remco wasn't dealing with the course well, in his earlier attacks he could see who was the strongest along with himself and he knew Mads and particularly Pog weren't going to let any Remco attacks go unanswered.

I also think he knew he had great legs and felt fairly confident he could bridge to any attack if necessary. And any attack by someone not named Remco or Wout would be pulled back by the 4-5 Belgians in the group. He's clearly improved tactically.

One quite noticeable effect of the course was that it was very hard to breakaway as long as the main group was sufficiently large (and not exhausted). Van der Poel's and Remco's attacks brought little and when there actually was a significant split of the main group, France / Cosnefroy brought it all together again and in practice gave Remco and the Belgian's a renewed chance to make a difference again.

Courses with short hills followed by some longer descending stretches are difficult for a breakaway. Chasers have to go very hard on the descents just to maintain a gap while the peloton riders are sheltered even when being in one file. It took a major amount of attrition before a real breakaway could happen (Bettiol first and then Pedersen/WVA/MVDP/Pog). I believe that Van der Poel quickly realized this and didn't need to cover some of the earlier attacks like Remco's.

On a final note I think WVA rode a very sensible race apart maybe from first breakaway with MVDP/Pog et al. Maybe he could've sat back in that one and let the others do the work and actually hope that Remco + rest of Belgian crew to get back. On the other hand I am not sure that Wout wanted Remco back. Hope he will get some big victories next year. He deserves it!

 

[Netserk]

It's literally the 4th in a row suited to the same type of rider though. And it's been 8 of the last 10. Only Imola and Innsbruck were truly hard circuits.

It's quite different to this year's route and Leuven. Doha and Copenhagen were likewise quite different. And in the same time period, you had 2 mountainous OGRRs.

It's an intermediate between Bergen and Ponferrada. A quite classic circuit, open to a wide range of contenders. Your two "truly hard circuits" were outliers.

 

[Aimar16]

Unless he adds a race or two for the sake of wearing the jersey, it might honestly be Strade Bianche.

Does he plan to defend his cyclocross title? That didn't turn out to be good preparation for the Strade Bianche this year.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Would love to see his power file for sure. A shame he does not upload them anymore. In my book MVDP earned much respect when he did.

Especially yesterday's normalised power must be insane, as the city circuit was like the textbook NP buster.

he does upload but hidden.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Unless he adds a race or two for the sake of wearing the jersey, it might honestly be Strade Bianche.

luckily we'll get a whole season of CX where he also wears a world champion jersey. Because of the other title he holds

 

[meat puppet]

he does upload but hidden.

True, but from my point of view it makes no difference. In early 2022 they were public.

 

[OlavEH]

It's literally the 4th in a row suited to the same type of rider though. And it's been 8 of the last 10. Only Imola and Innsbruck were truly hard circuits.

Nah, it's better now than it was the earlier decade. From 2018 to 2023 it has been a good variety of courses. Before that it was a lot of courses suited for riders similar to Bettini, Freire, etc. I would say that 9 or 10 of the road races from 2003 to 2017 was of this type.

 

[Volderke]

Is he seriously not going to race anymore this year? That would be a shame... He did the Tour as prep for the World's, and now he has the jersey, I would think he can still do some races if only to show the jersey, and have some goals / maintain his level? There are still 3 months with races, and I don't expect him to do a full CX season so he should be able to get some rest after the road season.

 

[Red Rick]

It's quite different to this year's route and Leuven. Doha and Copenhagen were likewise quite different. And in the same time period, you had 2 mountainous OGRRs.

It's an intermediate between Bergen and Ponferrada. A quite classic circuit, open to a wide range of contenders. Your two "truly hard circuits" were outliers.

I just don't like the classic circuit style at all. They have terrible racing most of the time. Hard climbs make it a wait for the last climb attrition fest, soft climbs do the same, it's just more puncheur vs sprinters waitfest, and the only thing that really tears a race apart is technicality.

The one thing people should have taken from Leuven is to use multiple different circuits, where you can have a harder circuit first before finishing on an easier one.

 

[Peter von]

Is he seriously not going to race anymore this year? That would be a shame... He did the Tour as prep for the World's, and now he has the jersey, I would think he can still do some races if only to show the jersey, and have some goals / maintain his level? There are still 3 months with races, and I don't expect him to do a full CX season so he should be able to get some rest after the road season.

I suspect he might asses after worlds.

There aren't that many great races left in the season for him that really suits him.

 

[OlavEH]

It's really too bad that it seems so difficult to make Benelux Tour a prestigous race where VdP and WVA would face each other again head to head for several days within a week of racing. That would certainly have been one of the highlights for the last third of the season.

 

[Ricco']

Wasn't he going to do the rest of the MTB season in the US and Canada?

Didn't check the exact dates of the World Cups, but Maryland Classic should start waving their big bucks to have the world champ there.

Initially thought that he could go to BingBongRenewBankofBenelux Tour but that race doesn't deserve the rainbow stripes there with that parcours.

Of course the canadian classics could be good options, start to tick the boxes that are left. At least Quebec should be doable.

 

[DNP-Old]

Wasn't he going to do the rest of the MTB season in the US and Canada?

Didn't check the exact dates of the World Cups, but Maryland Classic should start waving their big bucks to have the world champ there.

Initially thought that he could go to BingBongRenewBankofBenelux Tour but that race doesn't deserve the rainbow stripes there with that parcours.

Of course the canadian classics could be good options, start to tick the boxes that are left. At least Quebec should be doable.

In principle his season ends on Saturday, and I find that so very weak.

 

[OlavEH]

I just don't like the classic circuit style at all. They have terrible racing most of the time.

2018. 2020, 2021 and 2023 was not this type of race. Hopefully 2025 and 2027 won't be either. Not sure about 2026 in Montreal.

Looking back 2017, 2015, 2014, 2012, 2011, 2008, 2007, 2006 was that kind of race. And 2011, 2010 and 2005 were even easier. 2016 also, only the crosswinds made that good.

 

[Red Rick]

2018. 2020, 2021 and 2023 was not this type of race. Hopefully 2025 and 2027 won't be either. Not sure about 2026 in Montreal.

Looking back 2017, 2015, 2014, 2011, 2008, 2007, 2006 was that kind of race. And 2011, 2010 and 2005 were even easier. 2016 also, only the crosswinds made that good.

2018 was medium mountains, and going by the non Mens Elite races, it was quite fine without that final murito because the climb itself wasn't hard enough to drop everyone by going fast just once. The main climb was super fun racing in Trentino, and then at the Worlds they did it slower than the U23s because that murito was coming up.

2020 and 2012 were both pretty classic style circuits still. 2020 was very hard, I admit that, but the circuit style with the hardest climb last did lock the race up completely. Maybe it would be more aggressive these days because the best guys are so much better than the rest, but whatever.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Is he seriously not going to race anymore this year? That would be a shame... He did the Tour as prep for the World's, and now he has the jersey, I would think he can still do some races if only to show the jersey, and have some goals / maintain his level? There are still 3 months with races, and I don't expect him to do a full CX season so he should be able to get some rest after the road season.

i think he'll change his mind and do some of those Belgian .pro / 1.1 one days. Anything that isn't far from home.
I kinda hope Renewi Tour but he's probably not doing it.

 

[Barkintheeye]

luckily we'll get a whole season of CX where he also wears a world champion jersey. Because of the other title he holds

Really hope that he will do a full CX season. It might be the last time we will see Van der Poel commit to cyclocross. When he and Wout quits it will be a massive gap to be filled despite talents like T Nys and alike. Fortunately for cyclocross on the womens' side it looks good.

 

[Netserk]

I just don't like the classic circuit style at all. They have terrible racing most of the time. Hard climbs make it a wait for the last climb attrition fest, soft climbs do the same, it's just more puncheur vs sprinters waitfest, and the only thing that really tears a race apart is technicality.

The one thing people should have taken from Leuven is to use multiple different circuits, where you can have a harder circuit first before finishing on an easier one.

Imola and Innsbruck were worse than the more classic circuits like last year and next year, even worse than Bergen. But I still think Innsbruck could have been good without the dumb last climb.

2011-2018 were mostly bad editions, but I don't think the racing was terrible before that. Only 2006 was poor of the years I have watched in that period.

 

[Red Rick]

Imola and Innsbruck were worse than the more classic circuits like last year and next year, even worse than Bergen. But I still think Innsbruck could have been good without the dumb last climb.

2011-2018 were mostly bad editions, but I don't think the racing was terrible before that. Only 2006 was poor of the years I have watched in that period.

Well IMO racing changed overall a lot over that time, so I don't think pre 2011 is much to go by for the current era.

The closest thing to a classic WC style circuit that we see every year are the Canadian races, and they're not very good still. If the circuit is gonna be rather tame, I really prefer it to be 270km+. Even go towards 300 IMO. 246km is completely indefensible.

For pure flat circuits like Zolder or Copenhagen the distance should be at least 300 km. WC of 5 and half hours are a joke.

 

[Netserk]

I think 2007 had racing more similar to the present than 2014 had.

 

[Red Rick]

I think 2007 had racing more similar to the present than 2014 had.

The most recent WC that was close to typical was last year. It was terrible.

I guess we must distinguish between routes with a long flat section and only 1 or 2 climbs vs routes that are up and down all throughout, but Zurich is the worse kind.