Teams & Riders The "MVP" Mathieu Van der Poel Road Discussion Thread

[roundabout]

But he managed to win UAE Tour, Tirreno, Tour of Slovenia, Andalucia and Paris-Nice.
Far bigger achievement than 2x Lombardia, Ronde, 2x Strade Bianche, Amstel, Fleche, Montreal, Tre Valli Varesine, Jaen...
Not to mention that he failed to win Milan-San Remo three times finishing 5th, 4th and 3rd, failed at Ronde finishing 4th, and 3rd at the Worlds.
Knowing all this, it is clear that he wants to be a classic specialist, but somehow he fails there and always finds success on the other side, in stage races.

It's a strange definition of a classic specialist whichever way you slice it.

 

[Unterlenkerfahrend]

Pog mops the floor with MVDP in every one day race with 3000m+ elevation (weird cyclocross courses like Worlds last year aside) while still being competitive at the likes of MSR or Flanders. Yes, MVDP has racked up an impressive record last year in tailormade courses but unless he suddenly starts getting wins in LBL, Lombardia, San Sebastian etc. I'll give the crown to Tadej.

 

[Froome]

Pog mops the floor with MVDP in every one day race with 3000m+ elevation (weird cyclocross courses like Worlds last year aside) while still being competitive at the likes of MSR or Flanders. Yes, MVDP has racked up an impressive record last year in tailormade courses but unless he suddenly starts getting wins in LBL, Lombardia, San Sebastian etc. I'll give the crown to Tadej.

They are two different riders. We just can really compare them in one day races, because van der poel doesn't fight for Grand tours and one week races unlike pogacar, and Van der poel does Cyclocross, mountain bike, and fights for one day races in cycling.

If we compare them in one day races, it's true that it will be difficult for Van der poel to win il lombarda and Classica de San Remco, but i also don’t think the slovenian pozzato can fight for the win on Paris Roubaix. I also think it wil be difficult for him to win milan san remo.

 

[Unterlenkerfahrend]

They are two different riders. We just can really compare them in one day races, because van der poel doesn't fight for Grand tours and one week races unlike pogacar, and Van der poel does Cyclocross, mountain bike, and fights for one day races in cycling.

If we compare them in one day races, it's true that it will be difficult for Van der poel to win il lombarda and Classica de San Remco, but i also don’t think the slovenian pozzato can fight for the win on Paris Roubaix. I also think it wil be difficult for him to win milan san remo.

Of course they're different riders but MVDP can be chess world champion for all I care, it doesn't change the fact that he can't and doesn't compete in half the one day races while Pogacar is basically capable and has shown it in everything so far apart from Roubaix.

 

[Froome]

Of course they're different riders but MVDP can be chess world champion for all I care, it doesn't change the fact that he can't and doesn't compete in half the one day races while Pogacar is basically capable and has shown it in everything so far apart from Roubaix.

Van der poel can't be competitive on classica san Remco and Il lombardia. Pogacar doesn't race paris roubaix. It's not a big difference.

I don't completely rule it out Van der poel for liege bastogne liege, he will be more as a "underdog" but he already did 6th in the past on liege bastogne liege. Of course Remco and Pogacar are more favourites, but he will not be that far, and if in the future he focus more in specific training to win liege bastogne liege, i think he can do it.

 

[AmRacer]

Van der poel can't be competitive on classica san Remco and Il lombardia. Pogacar doesn't race paris roubaix. It's not a big difference.

I don't completely rule it out Van der poel for liege bastogne liege, he will be more as a "underdog" but he already did 6th in the past on liege bastogne liege. Of course Remco and Pogacar are more favourites, but he will not be that far, and if in the future he focus more in specific training to win liege bastogne liege, i think he can do it.

If Pog in the future focusing more in specific training to win P-R, i think he can do it.

 

[jono]

If Pog in the future focusing more in specific training to win P-R, i think he can do it.

Specific training for P-R would require Pogacar to sacrifice most of his other season goals. were he to attempt it. A sacrifice worth making?

 

[AmRacer]

Specific training for P-R would require Pogacar to sacrifice most of his other season goals. were he to attempt it. A sacrifice worth making?

Not if he has won those races already. Pog wants to win everything. I recon, when Pog wins MSR he can take a shot at P-R.

 

[Nick2413]

Specific training for P-R would require Pogacar to sacrifice most of his other season goals. were he to attempt it. A sacrifice worth making?

He could probably win it today and not miss a beat for the Giro.

 

[Froome]

He could probably win it today and not miss a beat for the Giro.

PR doesn't have hills to do the difference. It's a very different race.

 

[hfer07]

So MVP is in good shape. Will he ride LBL?

 

[Oldermanish]

A Rando North American Crit, preferably against Californian masters racers

With no drug testing for the Californians. MvP would be suprised that he was one of the smallest guys in the race. He'd also be surprised at how suicidal they're willing to ride for local cred....

 

[Ripper]

With no drug testing for the Californians. MvP would be suprised that he was one of the smallest guys in the race. He'd also be surprised at how suicidal they're willing to ride for local cred....

Exactly! Not for the faint of heart and, might I add, many WTFs and OMGs

 

[Berniece]

So MVP is in good shape. Will he ride LBL?

Yes

 

[LookProGoSlow]

Pog mops the floor with MVDP in every one day race with 3000m+ elevation (weird cyclocross courses like Worlds last year aside) while still being competitive at the likes of MSR or Flanders. Yes, MVDP has racked up an impressive record last year in tailormade courses but unless he suddenly starts getting wins in LBL, Lombardia, San Sebastian etc. I'll give the crown to Tadej.

I don't even begin to understand the comparison. It's much harder (impossible) to be 10 kg lighter on a larger frame, than to be 2-3 kg heavier on a smaller frame. Pogi has the advantage of being a smaller frame and can tune his physique to the race he targets while maintaining same power output. Matthieu simply has that physical limitation and will never look like Froome. And if he would get there, he will loose his power.

 

[Berniece]

You're comparing a single hill in a 260km race to an entire race to completely ignore the larger point.

In addition, Kwaremont is a 2km cobbled hill. MvdP, a cobbled specialist, shouldn't get taken to the woodshed by a GC rider there.

I just disagree. Also the way MVDP won those races is more impressive than Pogacar in De Ronde. WC 2min ahead, and MSR a solo finish. I’m more than happy to give Pogacar the #2 spot in the one day race ranking, but imo MVDP is #1. Personal ranking of course so you can see it differently, I don’t think we’ll get to agreement.

 

[AmRacer]

I just disagree. Also the way MVDP won those races is more impressive than Pogacar in De Ronde. WC 2min ahead, and MSR a solo finish. I’m more than happy to give Pogacar the #2 spot in the one day race ranking, but imo MVDP is #1. Personal ranking of course so you can see it differently, I don’t think we’ll get to agreement.

Whatabout Lombardia and LBL?
Or Strade?

 

[Blanco]

It's a strange definition of a classic specialist whichever way you slice it.

I didn't called him "the classics specialist only"
I said he's more of a classic specialist than a GC one, because he has more success in classics races, especially in last two years.

 

[AmRacer]

I didn't called him "the classics specialist only"
I said he's more of a classic specialist than a GC one, because he has more success in classics races, especially in last two years.

GC including one week races?

 

[Blanco]

Tadej Pogacar, the guy who has done 5 GTs and never finished worse than 3rd, and hasn't lost another stage race since Itzulia 2021, is more of a one day racer than a GC rider? The guy who goes to Sanremo and says it's way too easy for him, and who doesn't go to Roubaix because he doesn't wanna risk it before the Grand Tours is really more of a one day specialist?

I certainly wouldn't call a guy who won 5 monuments, a GC guy only.
Pogacar is a freak, like Merckx was, and Hinault, and he's both a GC rider and a classics specialist. My opinion is that he has more success in the classics lately.

 

[Blanco]

GC including one week races?

Yes.

 

[AmRacer]

Yes.

When did Poggi lost a one week race? Was it three years ago?

 

[Slavique Nuke]

but MVDP wasn't nearly at his best at RVV last year.

No way, 2023 MvdP was the best ever. That is his claim.

 

[Blanco]

When did Poggi lost a one week race? Was it three years ago?

I agree that he's most probably the best one-week racer in the world, but that's hardly a game changer in the big scheme.
I also have one question for you: When did Pogi won a Grand Tour race? Was it three years ago?

 

[AmRacer]

I agree that he's most probably the best one-week racer in the world, but that's hardly a game changer in the big scheme.
I also have one question for you: When did Pogi won a Grand Tour race? Was it three years ago?

Nah, that's Rogla.
Yes, he raced only 1 GT race each year, until now. But he raced multiple one day and one week races each year.