Teams & Riders The "MVP" Mathieu Van der Poel Road Discussion Thread

[Netserk]

Not sure what you're saying here. His other palmares aside, WvA does have 12 GT stage wins and won the green jersey at the 2022 TdF. It's obviously "worth much", judging by the salary he commands. VdP has only 2 GT wins, I believe.

If there's no comparison between them in overall ability (because Van Aert has so much more of it), and that translates to a higher wage for Wout, how much more does he earn than Van der Poel does?

 

[Keldergoat]

His other palmares aside,

His other palmares consists of pure cycling heritage: 6 monuments, 1 Worlds, +10 podiums in monuments, handful of semi classics like AGR, E3, SB, DdV, multiple NCs. There are no more than 3 riders currently active who have a more impressive palmares than MvdP. You could put that aside but cycling is way more than GTs.

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

If there's no comparison between them in overall ability (because Van Aert has so much more of it), and that translates to a higher wage for Wout, how much more does he earn than Van der Poel does?

You're shifting the goal posts. You said "overall ability doesn't mean much." It obviously does, otherwise Wout wouldn't be paid what he makes. Does it mean as much as winning the top monuments? No. So MvdP makes more. It doesn't seem that I'm saying anything controversial here, just saying what should be obvious to anyone paying attention to cycling.
Looking more closely at the salaries, VdP is 4th, Wout is 5th, with half a million euros less (and more than Remco). So, it seems that overall ability, contrary to your claim, does mean "much" after all.

Who Earns Most in Pro Cycling? Report Ranks Salaries, from Pogačar to Van der Poel and Beyond

Gazzetta dello Sport estimates pay for the top-10 earners in the WorldTour – and there are a few surprises.

velo.outsideonline.com

 

[James M]

You're shifting the goal posts. You said "overall ability doesn't mean much." It obviously does, otherwise Wout wouldn't be paid what he makes. Does it mean as much as winning the top monuments? No. So MvdP makes more. It doesn't seem that I'm saying anything controversial here, just saying what should be obvious to anyone paying attention to cycling.
Looking more closely at the salaries, VdP is 4th, Wout is 5th, with half a million euros less (and more than Remco). So, it seems that overall ability, contrary to your claim, does mean "much" after all.

Who Earns Most in Pro Cycling? Report Ranks Salaries, from Pogačar to Van der Poel and Beyond

Gazzetta dello Sport estimates pay for the top-10 earners in the WorldTour – and there are a few surprises.

velo.outsideonline.com

Your not saying anything controversial at all, Wva is more versatile thats a fact and obvious overall ability matters to some degree ofc it does, but only so much as winning the majors outweights it, its what they peak for and their goals and whats define them at that level above anything else, like you also agree on, GT' stages in this sense is second tier, and especially while impressive he is not a world class climber so in that sense its instrumental value to a lesser degree.

Still truly a special talent and also judging by results black and white alone is deranged and not the complete picture in that sense you could argue he is better than pictured in monuments aswell as if you put him in any other era than this he would dominate.

 

[Netserk]

You're shifting the goal posts. You said "overall ability doesn't mean much."

I did—in fact—not say what you said that I said. You can make use of a proper quote if you want to quote what I said.

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

Why don't you clarify what you mean, Netserk?
I said Wout is overall a better cyclist. You said overall ability doesn't mean much if it doesn't buy you success. I pointed out that Wout has been very successful given his palmares and his attendant salary. So your comment is at best irrelevant with respect to Wout, which was the topic here.

Again, I'm at a loss as to what you're arguing. I'm saying:
1) As an overall road cyclist, Wout is superior. He climbs better, has a better TT, and is nearly MvdP's equal on road races.
2) Wout has a better GT palmares (12 GT wins, green jersey) to 2 GT wins for MvdP. Difference would be even more stark had WvA not crashed in the Vuelta.
3) MvdP has better palmares on 1-day road races, which has translated to a somewhat higher salary, though they're both top 5 in $$$.

All of this seems obvious to me, but YMMV.

 

[Red Rick]

I'd say ability is reflected in palmares, and if you win 7x more of the top races than another guy in the same time period, you probably have better ability.

 

[Netserk]

Why don't you clarify what you mean, Netserk?
I said Wout is overall a better cyclist. You said overall ability doesn't mean much if it doesn't buy you success. I pointed out that Wout has been very successful given his palmares and his attendant salary. So your comment is at best irrelevant with respect to Wout, which was the topic here.

Again, I'm at a loss as to what you're arguing. I'm saying:
1) As an overall road cyclist, Wout is superior. He climbs better, has a better TT, and is nearly MvdP's equal on road races.
2) Wout has a better GT palmares (12 GT wins, green jersey) to 2 GT wins for MvdP. Difference would be even more stark had WvA not crashed in the Vuelta.
3) MvdP has better palmares on 1-day road races, which has translated to a somewhat higher salary, though they're both top 5 in $$$.

All of this seems obvious to me, but YMMV.

Conditioned on 2 & 3, 1 matters 0.

 

[senna6541]

I wonder if he's actually seen the Crans-Montana course, as used in the World Cup last season. It's one of the most technical courses we've seen recently.........He'll need time on the MTB if he wants that title.

Pretty sure he'll be more than fine if he commits the time he needs to the MTB - and no reason he can't given he has no major goals on the road this year after PR. By 2019 he was dominating the sport, and as far as technical downhills he wasn't even using a dropper in 2019. He can take lines on a CX bike with no driver aids that even Pidcock can't touch and to me that is the ultimate test of bike handling skills. With all the squish (dual sus, dropper, huge tires @ low pressures) on the MTB's these days it's basically point and go. And his engine dwarfs Piddy's.

 

[saunaking]

1) As an overall road cyclist, Wout is superior. He climbs better, has a better TT, and is nearly MvdP's equal on road races.

This is ridiculous and pointless.
MVDP Cobbles better, corners better, handles better, stays upright better, leads out better, 'punches' better, wins better and even though he is not as good a sprinter, he's beaten Wout in the 2 biggest H2H sprints they have ever contested (maybe more, I dunno).

 

[jono]

This is ridiculous and pointless.
MVDP Cobbles better, corners better, handles better, stays upright better, leads out better, 'punches' better, wins better and even though he is not as good a sprinter, he's beaten Wout in the 2 biggest H2H sprints they have ever contested (maybe more, I dunno).

.... keeps air in his tires better (though that, I think, is a team and equipment issue).

 

[BigCoward]

MVDP Cobbles better, corners better, handles better, stays upright better, leads out better, 'punches' better, wins better and even though he is not as good a sprinter, he's beaten Wout in the 2 biggest H2H sprints they have ever contested (maybe more, I dunno).

Hes nowhere near as good at finishing 2nd though.

 

[ArnaudVDL]

His other palmares consists of pure cycling heritage: 6 monuments, 1 Worlds, +10 podiums in monuments, handful of semi classics like AGR, E3, SB, DdV, multiple NCs. There are no more than 3 riders currently active who have a more impressive palmares than MvdP. You could put that aside but cycling is way more than GTs.

Pogacar, Roglic, Froome?

 

[Keldergoat]

Jup, that's about it. Maybe Vingegaard if you rate TdF GC substantially higher than monuments but that's about it. Even good old Alaphilippe only won 1 monument (and two WC's tbf).

 

[Gwbert]

Remco?

 

[Keldergoat]

Remco?

Not yet imo, but they are close indeed.

- MvdP: 6 Monuments, 1 WC, 13 podiums in monuments or Worlds, plenty of semi classics (AGR, SB, E3, DvV) 2 NCs
- Evenepoel: 1 GT, 1 podium, Olympic gold (2x), 1WC, 2x WCTT, 2 monuments, 4 podiums in Monuments or WC, 1 NCs

But I guess for the ones who rate Olympics higher than Worlds Remco wins. I don't personally.

 

[Blanco]

Why don't you clarify what you mean, Netserk?
I said Wout is overall a better cyclist. You said overall ability doesn't mean much if it doesn't buy you success. I pointed out that Wout has been very successful given his palmares and his attendant salary. So your comment is at best irrelevant with respect to Wout, which was the topic here.

Again, I'm at a loss as to what you're arguing. I'm saying:
1) As an overall road cyclist, Wout is superior. He climbs better, has a better TT, and is nearly MvdP's equal on road races.
2) Wout has a better GT palmares (12 GT wins, green jersey) to 2 GT wins for MvdP. Difference would be even more stark had WvA not crashed in the Vuelta.
3) MvdP has better palmares on 1-day road races, which has translated to a somewhat higher salary, though they're both top 5 in $$$.

All of this seems obvious to me, but YMMV.

Yeah, Wout is to Van Der Poel similar what Hushovd was to Boonen.
Hushovd was superior climber, had better GT palmares, and nearly equal on road races.
Simply better cyclist overall. Right?

 

[kingjr]

Yeah, Wout is to Van Der Poel similar what Hushovd was to Boonen.
Hushovd was superior climber, had better GT palmares, and nearly equal on road races.
Simply better cyclist overall. Right?

I prefer Valverde vs Froome as a comparison

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

Yeah, Wout is to Van Der Poel similar what Hushovd was to Boonen.
Hushovd was superior climber, had better GT palmares, and nearly equal on road races.
Simply better cyclist overall. Right?

Yes, he was a more well-rounded cyclist. As I pointed out, that doesn't mean he had better palmares.

 

[jono]

On Payson McElveen's podcast (former XCO MTB, current Lifetime Grand Prix gravel rider), his guest, Thomas de Gendt, said he expected MVDP to take part in the Traka gravel event in Girona in early May so he can do a race in his rainbow stripes in 2025.

 

[Axel Hangleck]

Paris-Roubaix is 13th April, the Traka is 1st-4th May.....
The first European XC World Cup is Nove Mesto 23rd-25th May.....

 

[Berniece]

Apparently his rib wasn't bruised but actually broken, it is still not healed properly, but he's able to ride around with it.

Rib van Van Der Poel was niet gekneusd, maar gebroken: "Nog altijd niet aan elkaar gegroeid" | sporza

Mathieu van der Poel was de voorbije weken de grote afwezige in de cross, maar in Maasmechelen maakt hij één week voor het WK toch zijn entree. Mét enkele vraagtekens.

sporza.be

 

[LookProGoSlow]

Judging by how the CX goes I get similar vibes to last year. The man is going to have a very stellar spring me thinks.

 

[Keldergoat]

Apparently his rib wasn't bruised but actually broken, it is still not healed properly, but he's able to ride around with it.

Rib van Van Der Poel was niet gekneusd, maar gebroken: "Nog altijd niet aan elkaar gegroeid" | sporza

Mathieu van der Poel was de voorbije weken de grote afwezige in de cross, maar in Maasmechelen maakt hij één week voor het WK toch zijn entree. Mét enkele vraagtekens.

sporza.be

I can assure you he's able to ride around with it.

 

[Bolder]

Judging by how the CX goes I get similar vibes to last year. The man is going to have a very stellar spring me thinks.

He said after the race today that he’s feeling stronger than last year ahead of the WC. Of course it’s only January.