Teams & Riders The "MVP" Mathieu Van der Poel Road Discussion Thread

[AmRacer]

MVDP is going well and will be hard to beat in the big races. I am struggling to understand why Pogacar is so often mentioned in this thread?

Pogi and MvP are biggest rivals in the classics.

 

[Berniece]

I'm genuinely not understanding your point. Notwithstanding the insulting nature of the post below your's, I do believe that you can extrapolate something from Strade Pogacar and Pidcock, as it relates to MSR Pogacar and MVDP. I've stated before that I could well be wrong, but I suspect I am not. I think Pog is currently at a level that nobody can even come close to touching. I don't see an "that's it, I'm dead" moment coming from him now. He, metaphorically, has 5 bike lengths on everyone else, IMO.

You said Pogacar could’ve dropped Pidcock earlier. That’s not true, he tried that at 80km’s before the finish and he failed.

I actually think Pogacar isn’t as good as last year, at the moment. I don’t see him drop everyone on the Poggio. But I could be wrong, I’ve been wrong a couple of times when it comes to Pogacar

 

[ChewbaccaDefense]

A less speculative approach would to look if there has been any correlation between previous T-A participations and MVDP's subsequent results at MSR and other major spring classics.

Certainly, I understand that MSR is a different race, clearly based on the results. I also just believe that Pogacar is so strong, that he will be able to dispose of anyone he wants, at any time he wants. Like I wrote, I could be wrong.

 

[ChewbaccaDefense]

You said Pogacar could’ve dropped Pidcock earlier. That’s not true, he tried that at 80km’s before the finish and he failed.

I actually think Pogacar isn’t as good as last year, at the moment. I don’t see him drop everyone on the Poggio. But I could be wrong, I’ve been wrong a couple of times when it comes to Pogacar

I think he could have if he'd kept pushing, but of course I can never prove that. I also understand that Pidcock knew his entire race was to stay with Pog, whatever the cost, at 80K. Nobody could do that last year, including Pidcock. Pidcock was able to do that this year, but I think that is a reflection of Pidcock getting much better, not Pog showing weakness.

We both will see in a little over a week. I'm actually excited because I do think that if Pog is not able to run away with it, there are several contenders who look very strong this year. Mathieu being one.

 

[senna6541]

I think things have gone perfectly so far this pre-season for MVDP. Now it's just about getting through these next couple of stages and next week healthy. Winning stages at a prep race mean nothing to his palmares at this point. Not when you have 6 Monuments and all the elite WC's. This isn't the MVDP of 2023 RVV when he was still on the very front end of being fully healthy from his back issues. Pogi won't be able to deal with beast mode MVDP at MSR, RVV or PR. Even in 2023 he destroyed Pogi at MSR (pushed him aside like a little boy on the Poggio) and then absolutely detonated him at Worlds. Also, MVDP didn't ride the smartest race at RVV in 2023 - used up some energy he didn't need to getting caught out early and then wasting all that energy to eliminate Wout. Doubt he'll make those kinds of mistakes against Pogi this year. Good to hear MVDP is going into the races that count as a huge underdog though...

 

[yaco]

Pogi and MvP are biggest rivals in the classics.

I suggest you learn to read between the lines.

 

[AmRacer]

I suggest you learn to read between the lines.

No, thank you

 

[LookProGoSlow]

I think things have gone perfectly so far this pre-season for MVDP. Now it's just about getting through these next couple of stages and next week healthy. Winning stages at a prep race mean nothing to his palmares at this point. Not when you have 6 Monuments and all the elite WC's. This isn't the MVDP of 2023 RVV when he was still on the very front end of being fully healthy from his back issues. Pogi won't be able to deal with beast mode MVDP at MSR, RVV or PR. Even in 2023 he destroyed Pogi at MSR (pushed him aside like a little boy on the Poggio) and then absolutely detonated him at Worlds. Also, MVDP didn't ride the smartest race at RVV in 2023 - used up some energy he didn't need to getting caught out early and then wasting all that energy to eliminate Wout. Doubt he'll make those kinds of mistakes against Pogi this year. Good to hear MVDP is going into the races that count as a huge underdog though...

This is what I think as well. The man has honed his craft again and again since he fixed his back and is now more powerful and durable than ever. He races smarter, he knows how to prepare, he is confident af, and even the mighty pogi can get schooled by him in very select races.

 

[Peyroteo94]

IMHO MVP will have his worst season this year. Despite being the favourite for MSR, I don't think he will win it.
RVV, he is facing Pogacar again and in PR WVA will not have bad luck forever.

 

[kn0s]

I'm genuinely not understanding your point. Notwithstanding the insulting nature of the post below your's, I do believe that you can extrapolate something from Strade Pogacar and Pidcock, as it relates to MSR Pogacar and MVDP. I've stated before that I could well be wrong, but I suspect I am not. I think Pog is currently at a level that nobody can even come close to touching. I don't see an "that's it, I'm dead" moment coming from him now. He, metaphorically, has 5 bike lengths on everyone else, IMO.

How can you take parcours completely out of the equation? When doing races that typical favors MvdP, Pogi has won RVV one time against him, what else? When I check the stats I would say Pogi has lost more than he has won in this situation. I get that the sample size is not great but still.

Now things might have changed but historically Pogi has not been dominant in classics against MvdP (talking non long climbing here)

 

[Berniece]

IMHO MVP will have his worst season this year. Despite being the favourite for MSR, I don't think he will win it.
RVV, he is facing Pogacar again and in PR WVA will not have bad luck forever.

MSR is always a bit of a gamble. No clue why he would automatically lose in Flanders against Pogacar. He already beat him there, and he's better than in 2023. We still have to see if WVA is able to get to the level of 2023, so Roubaix can also just be in the bag.

 

[AmRacer]

MSR is always a bit of a gamble. No clue why he would automatically lose in Flanders against Pogacar. He already beat him there, and he's better than in 2023. We still have to see if WVA is able to get to the level of 2023, so Roubaix can also just be in the bag.

Pogi is also better than in 2023, when he won. Not sure Mathieu is better than last year, it remains to be seen.

 

[ChewbaccaDefense]

<cough><cough>

 

[ChewbaccaDefense]

Did you expect him to blow up on this finish when he is nowhere in the GC? [[deleted]]

Just marking the days man, just marking the days.

 

[Berniece]

Just marking the days man, just marking the days.

Are you going to do the same on Monday? Because that will be as much of significance as today was for him.

 

[ChewbaccaDefense]

Are you going to do the same on Monday? Because that will be as much of significance as today was for him.

Man, you're taking this stuff waaaaayyy to seriously.

And actually, I disagree, as he went on the attack early, I'm sure for training purposes. Every ride he does has significance to him. As I said in the race thread, he clearly pulled the parachute early in the climb, most likely because the stress on his legs in particular, wasn't worth the effort. He got his trainng in earlier, and cruised. I think Ganna may pay the price next weekend for riding this hard so far. We'll see, because that's why we watch, and that's why they race.

Still, he's 0'fer for stage wins, which was his stated goal. Maybe tomorrow? Then you can have all the satisfaction you want...if though.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

the usual nonsense by people taking tirreno results as anything
MVDP had been way worse in the Tirreno in the year he actually won MSR.

Also. Poggio is not Strade bianchi. There's a lot of dumb comparisons here

 

[ChewbaccaDefense]

the usual nonsense by people taking tirreno results as anything
MVDP had been way worse in the Tirreno in the year he actually won MSR.

Also. Poggio is not Strade bianchi. There's a lot of dumb comparisons here

Maybe you're right, but I suspect you aren't. I have no issue being wrong. That's the province of others.

I think it's pretty dumb to suggest that Pogacar isn't going to be dominat in any race he enters. Time shall tell.

Then again, you thought Thomas Dekker would amount to something, so I take your assertation of things lightly, to say the least.

 

[jono]

Maybe you're right, but I suspect you aren't. I have no issue being wrong. That's the province of others.

I think it's pretty dumb to suggest that Pogacar isn't going to be dominat in any race he enters. Time shall tell.

Then again, you thought Thomas Dekker would amount to something, so I take your assertation of things lightly, to say the least.

You seem to have two completely separate and different arguments in this thread: 1. Pogacar will be untouchable this season, and 2. MVDP's Tirreno-Adriatico (no stage wins) bodes ill for the rest of his spring.

The 1st argument makes the second point (and much of cycling discussion, overall) irrelevant and pointless, but a quick look at Mathieu's participations in T-A shows basically no correlation between his level in the race and subesquent results. He and his coaches seem to have dialled in their approach for having him ready for his biggest targets over the last 2 to 3 years.

 

[ChewbaccaDefense]

You seem to have two completely separate and different arguments in this thread: 1. Pogacar will be untouchable this season, and 2. MVDP's Tirreno-Adriatico (no stage wins) bodes ill for the rest of his spring.

The 1st argument makes the second point (and much of cycling discussion, overall) irrelevant and pointless, but a quick look at Mathieu's participations in T-A shows basically no correlation between his level in the race and subesquent results. He and his coaches seem to have dialled in their approach for having him ready for his biggest targets over the last 2 to 3 years.

Everything I've said about Mathieu is in relation to how I think he will fair against Pogacar. I'm using his results in T-A to illustrate my point, but it is just an augmentation. [[mod edited]]

 

[jono]

Everything I've said about Mathieu is in relation to how I think he will fair against Pogacar.

What would you want to see from MVDP at Tirreno that would convince you that he can give Pogacar a battle at MSR and RVV? Winning 2 or 3 stages and competing for GC? That, to me, would be a sign of a rider not marshalling his resources correctly, or having mistimed his peak.

 

[ChewbaccaDefense]

What would you want to see from MVDP at Tirreno that would convince you that he can give Pogacar a battle at MSR and RVV? Winning 2 or 3 stages and competing for GC? That, to me, would be a sign of a rider not marshalling his resources correctly, or having mistimed his peak.

Yes, winning a stage or two, particularly because he indicated that is why he was there. The closest he came was a 2nd in a field sprint. Ganna was able to chase him down after one of his attacks, and when he bridged to Pidcock after one of Pidcocks attacks, he didn't appear to be able to keep going. Those things don't give me confidence that he can withstand an attack by Pogacar, and even if he withstands an initial attacke, Pogacar will drop him later anyway.

Like I said, I could be wrong, but everything I have seen from Pogacar in the last year, suggests to me that he has reached a completely different level that any cyclist who has ever been a pro, even past a freak of nature like MVDP. I truly believe that in the coming races in which Pogacar is racing, there will be a point where he just destroys everyone, and goes it alone to the finish. Maybe not, and certainly descending the Poggio will be a challenge for him, if he is not alone at that point, but I still think he might have enough to get away on the flat. Pogacar clearly has an ability to maintain power after sustained effort, more than any rider I have ever seen. I think that factor is still improving in him.

I'm geniunely mystified why this opinion has caused so much conseternation? If I'm wrong and MVDP wins, so be it. But everybody here is pontificating on what MVDP will do this spring, I have a different opinion, so evidently, that means I've never watched a cycling race before, and don't understand the dynamics of professional cycling sufficienty to have that opinion. I certainly don't have anyone who agrees with me, apparently. If I'm wrong, I'm sure that people will want to see me eat a humble pie, but I won't because I have no issue being wrong about anything. If I hadn't been wrong on may occasions and learned from that, I wouldn't be as good at what I do for a living as I am, and I am pretty damn good at it.

You guys take this way too seriously. All this is just a diversion for me. I have no ego or need to be right, wrapped up in this. It's just a thing I enjoy watching, and I have opinions about things that relate to that. In real life, I have strong opinions about the things that garner my attention, and in which I am interested, but I am always open to being wrong and learning differently.

 

[jono]

Yes, winning a stage or two, particularly because he indicated that is why he was there. The closest he came was a 2nd in a field sprint. Ganna was able to chase him down after one of his attacks, and when he bridged to Pidcock after one of Pidcocks attacks, he didn't appear to be able to keep going. Those things don't give me confidence that he can withstand an attack by Pogacar, and even if he withstands an initial attacke, Pogacar will drop him later anyway.

Like I said, I could be wrong, but everything I have seen from Pogacar in the last year, suggests to me that he has reached a completely different level that any cyclist who has ever been a pro, even past a freak of nature like MVDP. I truly believe that in the coming races in which Pogacar is racing, there will be a point where he just destroys everyone, and goes it alone to the finish. Maybe not, and certainly descending the Poggio will be a challenge for him, if he is not alone at that point, but I still think he might have enough to get away on the flat. Pogacar clearly has an ability to maintain power after sustained effort, more than any rider I have ever seen. I think that factor is still improving in him.

I'm geniunely mystified why this opinion has caused so much conseternation? If I'm wrong and MVDP wins, so be it. But everybody here is pontificating on what MVDP will do this spring, I have a different opinion, so evidently, that means I've never watched a cycling race before, and don't understand the dynamics of professional cycling sufficienty to have that opinion. I certainly don't have anyone who agrees with me, apparently. If I'm wrong, I'm sure that people will want to see me eat a humble pie, but I won't because I have no issue being wrong about anything. If I hadn't been wrong on may occasions and learned from that, I wouldn't be as good at what I do for a living as I am, and I am pretty damn good at it.

You guys take this sh!t way too seriously. All this sh!t is just a diversion for me. I have no ego or need to be right, wrapped up in this. It's just a thing I enjoy watching, and I have opinions about things that relate to that. In real life, I have strong opinions about the things that garner my attention, and in which I am interested, but I am always open to being wrong and learning differently.

You do you.

I think you've heard this from me and others before. Pogacar may be ready to ascend to a level never before seen. I haven't watched much of him this season because I don't care for desert races so I won't offer any opinion if he is trending that way.


As for MVDP I believe he's at Tirreno for the same reason as ever: to prepare for his spring. The one time he truly tried to compete he went too deep and clearly compromised his early season (2021). He probably did hope to win a stage this year, but even if he doesn't really care he's not going to do an interview and outright say he's treating it as a training race.

But whether or not MVDP is on track to be as good as 2024, if Pogacar is on some astral plane of form it doesn't matter. Even if van der Poel matches last year's level and Pogacar doesn't ascend it would be surprising if he matches last spring's results (2 monument wins and setting up his teammate for another by being the strongest rider in the finale). There are simply too many moving parts.

I think this is as clear as I can be and I don't see this as at all disrespecting anyone's ability to watch and evaluate a race or rider.

 

[dazaau]

IMHO MVP will have his worst season this year. Despite being the favourite for MSR, I don't think he will win it.
RVV, he is facing Pogacar again and in PR WVA will not have bad luck forever.

It will be hard to beat the last period.

I think he will be in great shape, but I also think MSR is a bit of a lottery and despite being a big MVDP fan I think Pog has the upper hand in RVV.

At least MSR and RVV will be exciting. Classic's excitement is getting rare these days and Pog will have real competition.

I hope Pogacar rides Roubaix for similar reasons, his presence will make the race more exciting. Wout doesn't seem to have it this year yet, we will see.

But all I'm saying is MVDP could be as good or better than last year and it could still be a mediocre classics results sheet. But I hope it's at least going to be great TV. I would be surprised if it were his worst season ever.

 

[dazaau]

Yes, winning a stage or two, particularly because he indicated that is why he was there. The closest he came was a 2nd in a field sprint. Ganna was able to chase him down after one of his attacks, and when he bridged to Pidcock after one of Pidcocks attacks, he didn't appear to be able to keep going. Those things don't give me confidence that he can withstand an attack by Pogacar, and even if he withstands an initial attacke, Pogacar will drop him later anyway.

Like I said, I could be wrong, but everything I have seen from Pogacar in the last year, suggests to me that he has reached a completely different level that any cyclist who has ever been a pro, even past a freak of nature like MVDP. I truly believe that in the coming races in which Pogacar is racing, there will be a point where he just destroys everyone, and goes it alone to the finish. Maybe not, and certainly descending the Poggio will be a challenge for him, if he is not alone at that point, but I still think he might have enough to get away on the flat. Pogacar clearly has an ability to maintain power after sustained effort, more than any rider I have ever seen. I think that factor is still improving in him.

I'm geniunely mystified why this opinion has caused so much conseternation? If I'm wrong and MVDP wins, so be it. But everybody here is pontificating on what MVDP will do this spring, I have a different opinion, so evidently, that means I've never watched a cycling race before, and don't understand the dynamics of professional cycling sufficienty to have that opinion. I certainly don't have anyone who agrees with me, apparently. If I'm wrong, I'm sure that people will want to see me eat a humble pie, but I won't because I have no issue being wrong about anything. If I hadn't been wrong on may occasions and learned from that, I wouldn't be as good at what I do for a living as I am, and I am pretty damn good at it.

You guys take this sh!t way too seriously. All this sh!t is just a diversion for me. I have no ego or need to be right, wrapped up in this. It's just a thing I enjoy watching, and I have opinions about things that relate to that. In real life, I have strong opinions about the things that garner my attention, and in which I am interested, but I am always open to being wrong and learning differently.

You do you.

He is there to train and get race ready.

The course doesn't really suit him and the team has few other prospects for success in this race - so what did you expect him to say?

So let's see. I believe last season @scribers famously pronounced he would eat his hat if MVDP did well at RVV. Perhaps you would also like to make a similar proclamation to make it more entertaining