Teams & Riders The "MVP" Mathieu Van der Poel Road Discussion Thread

[Berniece]

Pogacar just toyed with Pidcock at Strade. He could have dropped him any time he wanted, except when he was pulling himself out of a ditch.

That’s why he didn’t drop Pidcock when he first attacked

 

[ChewbaccaDefense]

That’s why he didn’t drop Pidcock when he first attacked

I'm genuinely not understanding your point. Notwithstanding the insulting nature of the post below your's, I do believe that you can extrapolate something from Strade Pogacar and Pidcock, as it relates to MSR Pogacar and MVDP. I've stated before that I could well be wrong, but I suspect I am not. I think Pog is currently at a level that nobody can even come close to touching. I don't see an "that's it, I'm dead" moment coming from him now. He, metaphorically, has 5 bike lengths on everyone else, IMO.

 

[jono]

I'm genuinely not understanding your point. Notwithstanding the insulting nature of the post below your's, I do believe that you can extrapolate something from Strade Pogacar and Pidcock, as it relates to MSR Pogacar and MVDP. I've stated before that I could well be wrong, but I suspect I am not. I think Pog is currently at a level that nobody can even come close to touching. I don't see an "that's it, I'm dead" moment coming from him now. He, metaphorically, has 5 bike lengths on everyone else, IMO.

A less speculative approach would to look if there has been any correlation between previous T-A participations and MVDP's subsequent results at MSR and other major spring classics.

 

[yaco]

MVDP is going well and will be hard to beat in the big races. I am struggling to understand why Pogacar is so often mentioned in this thread?

 

[AmRacer]

MVDP is going well and will be hard to beat in the big races. I am struggling to understand why Pogacar is so often mentioned in this thread?

Pogi and MvP are biggest rivals in the classics.

 

[Berniece]

I'm genuinely not understanding your point. Notwithstanding the insulting nature of the post below your's, I do believe that you can extrapolate something from Strade Pogacar and Pidcock, as it relates to MSR Pogacar and MVDP. I've stated before that I could well be wrong, but I suspect I am not. I think Pog is currently at a level that nobody can even come close to touching. I don't see an "that's it, I'm dead" moment coming from him now. He, metaphorically, has 5 bike lengths on everyone else, IMO.

You said Pogacar could’ve dropped Pidcock earlier. That’s not true, he tried that at 80km’s before the finish and he failed.

I actually think Pogacar isn’t as good as last year, at the moment. I don’t see him drop everyone on the Poggio. But I could be wrong, I’ve been wrong a couple of times when it comes to Pogacar

 

[ChewbaccaDefense]

A less speculative approach would to look if there has been any correlation between previous T-A participations and MVDP's subsequent results at MSR and other major spring classics.

Certainly, I understand that MSR is a different race, clearly based on the results. I also just believe that Pogacar is so strong, that he will be able to dispose of anyone he wants, at any time he wants. Like I wrote, I could be wrong.

 

[ChewbaccaDefense]

You said Pogacar could’ve dropped Pidcock earlier. That’s not true, he tried that at 80km’s before the finish and he failed.

I actually think Pogacar isn’t as good as last year, at the moment. I don’t see him drop everyone on the Poggio. But I could be wrong, I’ve been wrong a couple of times when it comes to Pogacar

I think he could have if he'd kept pushing, but of course I can never prove that. I also understand that Pidcock knew his entire race was to stay with Pog, whatever the cost, at 80K. Nobody could do that last year, including Pidcock. Pidcock was able to do that this year, but I think that is a reflection of Pidcock getting much better, not Pog showing weakness.

We both will see in a little over a week. I'm actually excited because I do think that if Pog is not able to run away with it, there are several contenders who look very strong this year. Mathieu being one.

 

[senna6541]

I think things have gone perfectly so far this pre-season for MVDP. Now it's just about getting through these next couple of stages and next week healthy. Winning stages at a prep race mean nothing to his palmares at this point. Not when you have 6 Monuments and all the elite WC's. This isn't the MVDP of 2023 RVV when he was still on the very front end of being fully healthy from his back issues. Pogi won't be able to deal with beast mode MVDP at MSR, RVV or PR. Even in 2023 he destroyed Pogi at MSR (pushed him aside like a little boy on the Poggio) and then absolutely detonated him at Worlds. Also, MVDP didn't ride the smartest race at RVV in 2023 - used up some energy he didn't need to getting caught out early and then wasting all that energy to eliminate Wout. Doubt he'll make those kinds of mistakes against Pogi this year. Good to hear MVDP is going into the races that count as a huge underdog though...

 

[yaco]

Pogi and MvP are biggest rivals in the classics.

I suggest you learn to read between the lines.

 

[AmRacer]

I suggest you learn to read between the lines.

No, thank you

 

[LookProGoSlow]

I think things have gone perfectly so far this pre-season for MVDP. Now it's just about getting through these next couple of stages and next week healthy. Winning stages at a prep race mean nothing to his palmares at this point. Not when you have 6 Monuments and all the elite WC's. This isn't the MVDP of 2023 RVV when he was still on the very front end of being fully healthy from his back issues. Pogi won't be able to deal with beast mode MVDP at MSR, RVV or PR. Even in 2023 he destroyed Pogi at MSR (pushed him aside like a little boy on the Poggio) and then absolutely detonated him at Worlds. Also, MVDP didn't ride the smartest race at RVV in 2023 - used up some energy he didn't need to getting caught out early and then wasting all that energy to eliminate Wout. Doubt he'll make those kinds of mistakes against Pogi this year. Good to hear MVDP is going into the races that count as a huge underdog though...

This is what I think as well. The man has honed his craft again and again since he fixed his back and is now more powerful and durable than ever. He races smarter, he knows how to prepare, he is confident af, and even the mighty pogi can get schooled by him in very select races.

 

[Peyroteo94]

IMHO MVP will have his worst season this year. Despite being the favourite for MSR, I don't think he will win it.
RVV, he is facing Pogacar again and in PR WVA will not have bad luck forever.

 

[kn0s]

I'm genuinely not understanding your point. Notwithstanding the insulting nature of the post below your's, I do believe that you can extrapolate something from Strade Pogacar and Pidcock, as it relates to MSR Pogacar and MVDP. I've stated before that I could well be wrong, but I suspect I am not. I think Pog is currently at a level that nobody can even come close to touching. I don't see an "that's it, I'm dead" moment coming from him now. He, metaphorically, has 5 bike lengths on everyone else, IMO.

How can you take parcours completely out of the equation? When doing races that typical favors MvdP, Pogi has won RVV one time against him, what else? When I check the stats I would say Pogi has lost more than he has won in this situation. I get that the sample size is not great but still.

Now things might have changed but historically Pogi has not been dominant in classics against MvdP (talking non long climbing here)

 

[Berniece]

IMHO MVP will have his worst season this year. Despite being the favourite for MSR, I don't think he will win it.
RVV, he is facing Pogacar again and in PR WVA will not have bad luck forever.

MSR is always a bit of a gamble. No clue why he would automatically lose in Flanders against Pogacar. He already beat him there, and he's better than in 2023. We still have to see if WVA is able to get to the level of 2023, so Roubaix can also just be in the bag.

 

[AmRacer]

MSR is always a bit of a gamble. No clue why he would automatically lose in Flanders against Pogacar. He already beat him there, and he's better than in 2023. We still have to see if WVA is able to get to the level of 2023, so Roubaix can also just be in the bag.

Pogi is also better than in 2023, when he won. Not sure Mathieu is better than last year, it remains to be seen.

 

[ChewbaccaDefense]

<cough><cough>

 

[ChewbaccaDefense]

Did you expect him to blow up on this finish when he is nowhere in the GC? [[deleted]]

Just marking the days man, just marking the days.

 

[Berniece]

Just marking the days man, just marking the days.

Are you going to do the same on Monday? Because that will be as much of significance as today was for him.

 

[ChewbaccaDefense]

Are you going to do the same on Monday? Because that will be as much of significance as today was for him.

Man, you're taking this stuff waaaaayyy to seriously.

And actually, I disagree, as he went on the attack early, I'm sure for training purposes. Every ride he does has significance to him. As I said in the race thread, he clearly pulled the parachute early in the climb, most likely because the stress on his legs in particular, wasn't worth the effort. He got his trainng in earlier, and cruised. I think Ganna may pay the price next weekend for riding this hard so far. We'll see, because that's why we watch, and that's why they race.

Still, he's 0'fer for stage wins, which was his stated goal. Maybe tomorrow? Then you can have all the satisfaction you want...if though.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

the usual nonsense by people taking tirreno results as anything
MVDP had been way worse in the Tirreno in the year he actually won MSR.

Also. Poggio is not Strade bianchi. There's a lot of dumb comparisons here

 

[ChewbaccaDefense]

the usual nonsense by people taking tirreno results as anything
MVDP had been way worse in the Tirreno in the year he actually won MSR.

Also. Poggio is not Strade bianchi. There's a lot of dumb comparisons here

Maybe you're right, but I suspect you aren't. I have no issue being wrong. That's the province of others.

I think it's pretty dumb to suggest that Pogacar isn't going to be dominat in any race he enters. Time shall tell.

Then again, you thought Thomas Dekker would amount to something, so I take your assertation of things lightly, to say the least.

 

[jono]

Maybe you're right, but I suspect you aren't. I have no issue being wrong. That's the province of others.

I think it's pretty dumb to suggest that Pogacar isn't going to be dominat in any race he enters. Time shall tell.

Then again, you thought Thomas Dekker would amount to something, so I take your assertation of things lightly, to say the least.

You seem to have two completely separate and different arguments in this thread: 1. Pogacar will be untouchable this season, and 2. MVDP's Tirreno-Adriatico (no stage wins) bodes ill for the rest of his spring.

The 1st argument makes the second point (and much of cycling discussion, overall) irrelevant and pointless, but a quick look at Mathieu's participations in T-A shows basically no correlation between his level in the race and subesquent results. He and his coaches seem to have dialled in their approach for having him ready for his biggest targets over the last 2 to 3 years.

 

[ChewbaccaDefense]

You seem to have two completely separate and different arguments in this thread: 1. Pogacar will be untouchable this season, and 2. MVDP's Tirreno-Adriatico (no stage wins) bodes ill for the rest of his spring.

The 1st argument makes the second point (and much of cycling discussion, overall) irrelevant and pointless, but a quick look at Mathieu's participations in T-A shows basically no correlation between his level in the race and subesquent results. He and his coaches seem to have dialled in their approach for having him ready for his biggest targets over the last 2 to 3 years.

Everything I've said about Mathieu is in relation to how I think he will fair against Pogacar. I'm using his results in T-A to illustrate my point, but it is just an augmentation. [[mod edited]]

 

[jono]

Everything I've said about Mathieu is in relation to how I think he will fair against Pogacar.

What would you want to see from MVDP at Tirreno that would convince you that he can give Pogacar a battle at MSR and RVV? Winning 2 or 3 stages and competing for GC? That, to me, would be a sign of a rider not marshalling his resources correctly, or having mistimed his peak.