Teams & Riders The "MVP" Mathieu Van der Poel Road Discussion Thread

[Berniece]

What?

Pogacar was managing that time to keep Van der Poel with him

Sure…

 

[Coppi-Bartali]

Sure…

Sure is to say that he was going to close the gap, just like in the World Championship, in Lombardy, in the European Championship....
Keep believing in unicorns. We've seen 100 races that he has never closed the gap.

 

[Berniece]

Sure is to say that he was going to close the gap

He literally came to around 20-30m... After already chasing for 10-20km's... When he wasn't being motopaced and he was alone. But sure, he wouldn't have closed those last few meters...

 

[Coppi-Bartali]

There's no point in arguing further about evidence we've already seen tepeatedly. The gap has only been closed in Amstel ; it never has been in any other instance.

I'm not going to tell you what you should or shouldn't believe if you deny something tangible.

 

[canina82]

I don't know if I'm in the thread Gerrans´ thread or in the thread of a cyclist of Vito Braet's level. Van der Poel, triple winner of Flanders and Roubaix.

I don't remember a single chase where Evenepoel has closed the gap on Pogacar. Only at Amstel Gold Race because Pogacar was coocked; in the other 126748 races, never.
The conviction that Evenepoel will catch him on the flat in a 278 kilometer road race is as much of a myth as a unicorn.

Van der Poel climbed the final pass of the Kwaremont second fastest; Remco was fourteenth, 25 seconds lower than MVDP. That's a huge loss againts Pogacar.
Some even say that Van der Poel should have stopped and waited. That's a stupid idea that would only have resulted in losing more time.

Van der Poel's turns were very lazy. He wasn't putting in any effort, and they were closing the gap behind him when VDP pulled.

Like with Pidcock, there are also tactical gurus who say that Pidcock shouldn't have gone with Pogacar. Pidcock was one sprint away from winning MSR, a very high probability, but it seems that a sprint against 20 fast men like Pedersen, Trentin or Van Aert would have been better.

Great post. Anyone who followed this race carefully, saw Remco losing time on cobbled bergs quite consistently. In the last Kwaremont, he lost 31" to Pogacar and 25" to MVP. In Koppenberg, another 10-12". And even on Mariaborrestraat, he lost 6 or 7" to Pogacar. I heard about motos but it is quite obvious Remco was on the limit and for that reason he could not close a 2-3" gap, this has nothing to do with motos.
Despite his impressive 3rd place, the way he rode on the cobbles was kinda bad and not bothers well for a future participation in PR. To those who think MVP should wait for Remco, I agree however if he was dropped somewhere by Pogacar, I'm pretty sure Remco wouldn't save him at all because he was clearly worse in Kwaremont+Paterberg.

 

[Oldman]

He almost closed the gap in Flanders, and only reason he didn't was because it was 3 against 1. Pogi/MVDP/Moto's

The only reason he got close was that Tadej was making the others work. He left when they couldn't contribute, didn't he?

 

[SHAD0W93]

He almost closed the gap in Flanders, and only reason he didn't was because it was 3 against 1. Pogi/MVDP/Moto's

Evenepoel didn’t close the gap because he wasn’t strong enough or rode the cobbles as well.

 

[Berniece]

Too arrogant to see there are other ways to win than being the strongest…

Mathieu van der Poel gaat dieper in op wattagerecord en verandert tactiek niet: "Ik zal koersen op gevoel" | sporza

Wint hij zondag voor het 4e jaar op een rij Parijs-Roubaix? Mathieu van der Poel (31) kan zich bij het clubje recordhouders voegen, maar focust niet op die mijlpaal. "Ik ben realistisch genoeg om te weten dat ik die reeks niet eeuwig in stand kan houden."

sporza.be

 

[jotafap]

Too arrogant to see there are other ways to win than being the strongest…

Mathieu van der Poel gaat dieper in op wattagerecord en verandert tactiek niet: "Ik zal koersen op gevoel" | sporza

Wint hij zondag voor het 4e jaar op een rij Parijs-Roubaix? Mathieu van der Poel (31) kan zich bij het clubje recordhouders voegen, maar focust niet op die mijlpaal. "Ik ben realistisch genoeg om te weten dat ik die reeks niet eeuwig in stand kan houden."

sporza.be

I called that being a great champion, and having a champion mindset. Opinions.

 

[Red Rick]

I called that being a great champion, and having a champion mindset. Opinions.

Not trying to get the best result?

I should try that at my work, my boss will *** love me.

 

[QueenStagiaire]

Too arrogant to see there are other ways to win than being the strongest…

Mathieu van der Poel gaat dieper in op wattagerecord en verandert tactiek niet: "Ik zal koersen op gevoel" | sporza

Wint hij zondag voor het 4e jaar op een rij Parijs-Roubaix? Mathieu van der Poel (31) kan zich bij het clubje recordhouders voegen, maar focust niet op die mijlpaal. "Ik ben realistisch genoeg om te weten dat ik die reeks niet eeuwig in stand kan houden."

sporza.be

To be fair, for Roubaix it‘s the right tactic. Also he should target the Tour if he can do 6w/kg for 90 minutes, especially with all the corners and hill intervals inbetween

 

[Berniece]

To be fair, for Roubaix it‘s the right tactic. Also he should target the Tour if he can do 6w/kg for 90 minutes, especially with all the corners and hill intervals inbetween

His grandfather always said he could win the TDF

 

[Red Rick]

To be fair, for Roubaix it‘s the right tactic. Also he should target the Tour if he can do 6w/kg for 90 minutes, especially with all the corners and hill intervals inbetween

6Wkg at sea level is nothingburger

 

[QueenStagiaire]

6Wkg at sea level is nothingburger

At 75 kilos, compared to whom? Maybe not enough for the Tour, but that‘s still more as normalised power, 90 minutes is longer than any climb we have numbers for and so on.

 

[jono]

There are several tactics:

1. Taking equal pulls with Pogacar. This is what MVDP is being criticized for at RVV, but this is not what happened.
2. Doing no pulls. People imagine that somehow the race would have played out exactly the same way until final Kwaremont, but MVDP would have arrived with more energy. A ridiculous assumption. (Pogacar merely would have gone solo far earlier).
3. A half measure, where Mathieu pulled about 25-75, and clearly wasn't pulling hard on many of those occasions. This is what we saw.

#1 is bad, obviously. It is not clear what reason one could give to prefer #2 or #3, or some 4th alternative.

When you have a lighter rider who can match you watt for watt on the flat, you simply don't hold very good cards.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Not trying to get the best result?

I should try that at my work, my boss will *** love me.

Im sure your boss wouldn't mind if you were as talented as MVDP and brought in as many results as he does!

 

[jotafap]

Not trying to get the best result?

I should try that at my work, my boss will *** love me.

Well, he tried to get the best result, and he clearly said not pulling wouldn't change the outcome of the race in his opinion. So not sure how your example applies to this situation.

 

[Red Rick]

Well, he tried to get the best result, and he clearly said not pulling wouldn't change the outcome of the race in his opinion. So not sure how your example applies to this situation.

"I didn't try to do better because it wouldn't have mattered" is a crap argument.

 

[Red Rick]

There are several tactics:

1. Taking equal pulls with Pogacar. This is what MVDP is being criticized for at RVV, but this is not what happened.
2. Doing no pulls. People imagine that somehow the race would have played out exactly the same way until final Kwaremont, but MVDP would have arrived with more energy. A ridiculous assumption. (Pogacar merely would have gone solo far earlier).
3. A half measure, where Mathieu pulled about 25-75, and clearly wasn't pulling hard on many of those occasions. This is what we saw.

#1 is bad, obviously. It is not clear what reason one could give to prefer #2 or #3, or some 4th alternative.

When you have a lighter rider who can match you watt for watt on the flat, you simply don't hold very good cards.

Yes, Pogacar drops MvdP more easily if he does 100% of the pulling. Makes perfect sense.

 

[QueenStagiaire]

There are several tactics:

1. Taking equal pulls with Pogacar. This is what MVDP is being criticized for at RVV, but this is not what happened.
2. Doing no pulls. People imagine that somehow the race would have played out exactly the same way until final Kwaremont, but MVDP would have arrived with more energy. A ridiculous assumption. (Pogacar merely would have gone solo far earlier).
3. A half measure, where Mathieu pulled about 25-75, and clearly wasn't pulling hard on many of those occasions. This is what we saw.

#1 is bad, obviously. It is not clear what reason one could give to prefer #2 or #3, or some 4th alternative.

When you have a lighter rider who can match you watt for watt on the flat, you simply don't hold very good cards.

This is a huge assumption to put in parantheses. I think Van der Poel‘s worst climb in Flanders is clearly the Kwaremont, while people who assume Pogačar would drop him earlier seem to think that 1-2 minute power expert MVDP is bad at the Koppenberg and similar climbs.

 

[jono]

Yes, Pogacar drops MvdP more easily if he does 100% of the pulling. Makes perfect sense.

Pogacar didn't attack MVDP a single time until Kwaremont. If van der Poel wheelsucks, Pogacar attacks every single berg. One way or another, MVDP is getting dropped if this happens.

Surely not everyone is this blind to how enormous the gap is between Pogacar and every other rider.

 

[jono]

This is a huge assumption to put in parantheses. I think Van der Poel‘s worst climb in Flanders is clearly the Kwaremont, while people who assume Pogačar would drop him earlier seem to think that 1-2 minute power expert MVDP is bad at the Koppenberg and similar climbs.

It's not a matter of dropping him on a single climb, it's about attacking MVDP every single climb. He simply can't repeat those efforts as often as Pogacar.

Even if he can hang on until Kwaremont in this scenario, he is just as cooked, if not moreso, by the time he arrives there.

 

[Peyresourde]

Flanders wasn't his last race. If Pogacar is with him after the last hard sector in Roubaix and van Aert and Pedersen are 30 seconds behind, Pogacar will also pull and MvdP will win because of it.

If you are not a one-hit-wonder, tactics should not be looked at through the lens of just maximizing your chances in a single race. Especially with his weak team and the likelihood of being away with Pogacar again in other important races.


I still find it hard to believe his power numbers from E3. Why can't he reproduce 'half' of those watts on a climb? It makes no sense to me.

 

[Red Rick]

If you are not a one-hit-wonder, tactics should not be looked at through the lens of just maximizing your chances in a single race. Especially with his weak team and the likelihood of being away with Pogacar again in other important races.

I keep saying this but nobody really does this. And if they think they do they're doing it completely wrong.

Mostly they just bend over before the race even begins.

 

[Salvarani]

Not trying to get the best result?

I should try that at my work, my boss will *** love me.

What does your boss say about taking a big risk and potentially losing out on a great return, and instead losing money for the firm? By playing around too much.

Not finishing second, instead finishing further down.

Arguably MVDP did his best. Almost held on and still got a great place. Dont think many employers would be mad at that. Losing money and reputation would be worse.