The official CBS 60 minutes thread

[Granville57]

Video testimony

Thanks, read that whole passage, wow...he really was/is on a planet of his own, believing the myth 100%!

Remember, you can also get it all straight from the dopers mouth:
http://velocitynation.com/content/features/2011/bicileaks-full-armstrong-sca-testimony

The specific part in question:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fcFkUv7FeJk&feature=player_embedded#at=133
The fun begins around the 2:00 mark.

 

[webvan]

Mind-boggling, "trainwreck" incoming...

 

[thehog]

All this talk of wanting a book deal and media attention is smoke. Anyone have any idea how many books one has to sell to make any money?
Especially a cycling book? What new can possibly be revealed?

Let's check the sales figures on "Lance Armstrong: The greatest athlete of all time". Now that was a great book! Not much publicity going on there for Comeback 2.0.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Lance-Makin...r_1_31?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1306303672&sr=1-31

 

[frenchfry]

Today's Washington Post, home to Armstrong's co-author Sally Jenkins, turns on Wonderboy in piece by one of her fellow sports columnists, Mike Wise.

Commentary is headlined, "For Lance Armstrong, it’s time to find out what living strong really means," and says it's time for even "the most devoted bracelet people" to face the facts.

Wise also picks up on the most serious allegation in the 60 Minutes broadcast -- the reported positive TdS test that went away.

To be fair, Sally Jenkins repeats many times that she isn't objective about Lancey-poo, and it's obvious that she is still under his spell. She also manages to work most of the talking points into her comments.

 

[cineteq]

Bjarne Riis raced professionally for 13 years, won the Tour de France, several stages in other races, and won several smaller races while never testing positive; then later admitting to doping most of his career.

Frankie Andreu raced professionally for 11 years, had 4 top ten Tour de France finishes, and raced in two Olympics while never testing positive; later admitting to using EPO.

Johan Museeuw raced professionally for 16 years, won Flanders 3 times, Roubaix 3 times, World Championships, and Amstel Gold while never testing positive; later implicated by Belgium courts for evidence of doping.

Should I continue naming former 'non-positive' dopers ??????

As mentioned in 60 min. by the WADA guy: Marion Jones, the track and filed athlete confessed to it, and never failed a test. Your post should be pinned!

 

[VeloMaster]

To be fair, Sally Jenkins repeats many times that she isn't objective about Lancey-poo, and itis obvious that she is still under his spell. She also manages to work most of the talking points into her comments.

Not sure "fair" is the right word, as one could argue she is a direct beneficiary of any fraud or misconduct that might eventually be attached to her business partner in these highly successful books. But I take your point.

Tks for posting the link mewmewmew13. I am a recent poster and wasn't sure of links etiquette here.

 

[frenchfry]

Toto is brilliant.

http://nyvelocity.com/toto

TICK TICK TICK TICK

 

[zigmeister]

Can someone post the source for Hincapie's statement he has made to the Grand Jury, or some source for his testimony regarding how he saw Lance dope and such?

 

[VeloCity]

Can someone post the source for Hincapie's statement he has made to the Grand Jury, or some source for his testimony regarding how he saw Lance dope and such?

Just out of curiosity, if it does turn out that Hincapie testified to the GJ and said a whole bunch of nasty things about Armstrong, will it change anything for you? And if during that testimony Hincapie corroborated Landis' and Hamilton's claims, will you still consider the two of them to be liars?

 

[MarkvW]

Just out of curiosity, if it does turn out that Hincapie testified to the GJ and said a whole bunch of nasty things about Armstrong, will it change anything for you? And if during that testimony Hincapie corroborated Landis' and Hamilton's claims, will you still consider the two of them to be liars?

Of course Tyler is a liar (and a cheat)! He said so--in those very words--on national TV. That issue isn't fairly debatable.

 

[Hugh Januss]

Just out of curiosity, if it does turn out that Hincapie testified to the GJ and said a whole bunch of nasty things about Armstrong, will it change anything for you? And if during that testimony Hincapie corroborated Landis' and Hamilton's claims, will you still consider the two of them to be liars?

Oh yeah, it'll change things, he won't like George's credibility either.

 

[VeloCity]

Of course Tyler is a liar (and a cheat)! He said so--in those very words--on national TV. That issue isn't fairly debatable.

I consider it the exact opposite - the fact that what Tyler and Floyd are saying publicly is the same as what they testified in front of a GJ gives them more credibility, considering what the price they'd pay would be if they were lying.

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

Why would Tyler lie to the grand jury about seeing Lance dope? Who is stupid enough to suggest that Tyler lied to the grand jury so he can write a book? He'd be writing that book from prison. It would be absolutely senseless.

I wonder if Tyler's accusers have actually stopped and thought through the logic. Hamilton has zero motivation to accuse anyone. He could have gone on about his business and kept his medal rather than giving it over to some neanderthal from the soviet-era dope machine.

 

[MacRoadie]

Why would Tyler lie to the grand jury about seeing Lance dope? Who is stupid enough to suggest that Tyler lied to the grand jury so he can write a book? He'd be writing that book from prison. It would be absolutely senseless.

I wonder if Tyler's accusers have actually stopped and thought through the logic. Hamilton has zero motivation to accuse anyone. He could have gone on about his business and kept his medal rather than giving it over to some neanderthal from the soviet-era dope machine.

Not to mention that fact that, after "I saw Lance Armstrong dope", what amazing revelations could possibly be left to sell the book? "I saw him eating babies" or "Lance Armstrong sleeps with aliens"?

 

[zigmeister]

Just out of curiosity, if it does turn out that Hincapie testified to the GJ and said a whole bunch of nasty things about Armstrong, will it change anything for you? And if during that testimony Hincapie corroborated Landis' and Hamilton's claims, will you still consider the two of them to be liars?

It makes absolutely no difference to me. Not sure why people are so interested, or personally care if athletes are doping and how they are somehow personally affected and feel betrayed.

I don't look to Lance Armstrong, or any celebrity, athlete or such for that matter, to find the strength to carry on about my day and life's struggles I may find myself.

But I really want to know, where is the testimony? Apparently George has now also said Lance doped. Oh wait, he hasn't said that, the GJ information is confidential and has not been released, and some reporter who has an interest to get readership is now implying they have some secret source to ensure their column gets published and they get paid. Makes for good reading and internet debate though.

Oh wait, that isn't it at all. These people have a moral and ethical obligation to find and tell the truth. As GOD as their witness, they will get into the kingdom of heaven for what they are doing. They are so righteous.

 

[MacRoadie]

It makes absolutely no difference to me. Not sure why people are so interested, or personally care if athletes are doping and how they are somehow personally affected and feel betrayed.

But you, on the other hand, took the time and effort to join this forum, and devote the vast majority of your first posts to throwing vitriol and casting aspersions towards Betsy Andreu and her "ex-doper husband"...

 

[VeloCity]

These people have a moral and ethical obligation to find and tell the truth.

And they have a moral and ethical obligation to atone for their past sins, if you want to stay on the religious theme. Which is what they're now doing. Just curious as to why you have such a problem with that.

Are you really sure that you want to take the position that Hincapie's testimony doesn't exist?

 

[MarkvW]

I consider it the exact opposite - the fact that what Tyler and Floyd are saying publicly is the same as what they testified in front of a GJ gives them more credibility, considering what the price they'd pay would be if they were lying.

A liar can be quite credible. Floyd and Tyler are very credible liars. You can't be lying all the time, otherwise people could easily figure out the truth from what you say.

 

[Race Radio]

Can someone post the source for Hincapie's statement he has made to the Grand Jury, or some source for his testimony regarding how he saw Lance dope and such?

You are right. George only said great things about Lance to the GJ. He told them about high cadence and the genius of Chris Charmichel.....

 

[powerste]

A liar can be quite credible. Floyd and Tyler are very credible liars. You can't be lying all the time, otherwise people could easily figure out the truth from what you say.

I rely on self-interest to sort out the truth from the lies:

1. As has been pointed out, lying to the GJ is against one's self-interest.
2. Denying one's own doping is in one's self-interest at the time.
3. Admitting one's own doping much later is IMO not conclusive either way. It's against your self-interest b/c you're exposing your historical dishonesty. OTOH, it's in your self-interest to clear your conscience. IMO which one wins the day will vary based on individuals and circumstances. But in TH's case, it's moot today - admitting doping is the same as not lying to the GJ. See #1, above.

 

[MarkvW]

But you, on the other hand, took the time and effort to join this forum, and devote the vast majority of your first posts to throwing vitriol and casting aspersions towards Betsy Andreu and her "ex-doper husband"...

The debate has matured! Who cares about "aspersions" toward Frankie (although his honorable wife should be left out of it)? Frankie was a doper. Embrace it! He, like many others, was never caught. That helps rebut Lance's stupid "tested" argument. He has never lied under oath and he corroborates the liars who have come forward belatedly with the truth.

A person who doesn't believe the Andreus now cannot be convinced of the reality of doping on USPS--ever. that person's opinion is irrelevant!

 

[MarkvW]

I rely on self-interest to sort out the truth from the lies:

1. As has been pointed out, lying to the GJ is against one's self-interest.
2. Denying one's own doping is in one's self-interest at the time.
3. Admitting one's own doping much later is IMO not conclusive either way. It's against your self-interest b/c you're exposing your historical dishonesty. OTOH, it's in your self-interest to clear your conscience. IMO which one wins the day will vary based on individuals and circumstances. But in TH's case, it's moot today - admitting doping is the same as not lying to the GJ. See #1, above.

I agree. People are confusing liar (a character trait) with lie (a knowingly made false statement). Sammy the Bull was a BIG liar, but he told the truth against Gotti.

 

[MacRoadie]

The debate has matured! Who cares about "aspersions" toward Frankie (although his honorable wife should be left out of it)? Frankie was a doper. Embrace it! He, like many others, was never caught. That helps rebut Lance's stupid "tested" argument. He has never lied under oath and he corroborates the liars who have come forward belatedly with the truth.

A person who doesn't believe the Andreus now cannot be convinced of the reality of doping on USPS--ever. that person's opinion is irrelevant!

Of course. It's just amazing, however, that these guys come on here, one after another, and spend time and effort passing judgement on the very thing that they profess is worthy of none of their time.

 

[thehog]

Of course. It's just amazing, however, that these guys come on here, one after another, and spend time and effort passing judgement on the very thing that they profess is worthy of none of their time.

More to come. This weekend I hear.

 

[zigmeister]

The debate has matured! Who cares about "aspersions" toward Frankie (although his honorable wife should be left out of it)? Frankie was a doper. Embrace it! He, like many others, was never caught. That helps rebut Lance's stupid "tested" argument. He has never lied under oath and he corroborates the liars who have come forward belatedly with the truth.

A person who doesn't believe the Andreus now cannot be convinced of the reality of doping on USPS--ever. that person's opinion is irrelevant!

It isn't much of an argument, particularly by Frankie and Tyler that "I never tested positive either." The time period they claimed that they and Lance were doing EPO, 99-00, there was no test for EPO!! So of course Frankie would never test positive. No kidding. Wow. Genius Frankie.