The official debate: Should Contador have waited for Schleck?

[cineteq]

The problem was not that he didn't sit up and wait, the problem was that he went ALL OUT!!!! HE WENT AS HARD AS HE COULD TO TAKE ADVANTAGE!!!

That's the problem. He could've stayed with Vino. He could've waited for the others, and jumped on their wheels. He was the one that initiated the counter, and it was a complete chickensh** move.

Not also that, Andy is the YELLOW JERSEY. Gotta show respect!
The thing is if Contador waits, probably Sanchez and Menchov would have attacked, and Contador would have followed, same result, but then Contador could have blamed the two others.

 

[2wheels]

Still think AC that there was no-need for AC to wait - but he didn't need to attack, just follow others lead.

Agree with this. I also think that AC was already responding well to Schleck's attack. Futile to speculate about whether he could have matched subsequent AS attacks (possibly), or whether Sanchez and AC would have caught Schleck on a descent(probably); but the issue for me here is how AC hit the gas in the last 2 km of the climb. No need.

 

[Siriuscat]

While all this leaves a bad taste in the mouth the level of Sportsmanship in this tour was FIRMLY established by Saxo Bank on stages 2 and 3 Cancellara killing st2 to suit the Schlecky's then Cancellara and Schleck attacking after frank fell on the cobbles IN FULL KNOWLEDGE that AC was behind the crash, didn't wait then did they.

I've had another look at the incident, Frame by Frame.

Yes, Contador goes by and he was responding to AS's attack going full bung when he did, AS's feet were still on the pedals at the time. When AC goes past he's countering maybe unsure what's gone.Menchov and Sanchez can have no doubt, Schleck's feet were down by then. Vino went straight on the radio to say but was that to tell AC to attack?? Either way, AC looked to ease back and certainly waited till Menchov and Sanchez were there and if they went then AC HAD to follow, no option.

So by some of the garbage I've read on this thread we are to accept that sportsmanship is okay when it favours Saxo but it's wrong when it suits someone else????

 

[Ripper]

Again, I say that there seem to be about as many ACD apologists on this forum as Armstrong apologists.

 

[nia O'Malley]

Schleck just tweeted this

I lost yellow today!**** happens but the race is not over yet!!!I be back!

Good! he got over it (as he should.). Great stuff.

 

[theyoungest]

Nobody waited. Not one single person.

Gesink waited...

 

[D Avoid]

lol why you keep on calling him shrek

Because he stealing my copyright.

 

[Biological Entity]

This video should make it clear what happened (even better than what I saw on Versus):

http://www.steephill.tv/players/eurosport/v1/?title=Andy%20Schleck%20drops%20his%20chain%20at%20a%20key%20moment%20-%20Tour%20de%20France%202010&id=20948447

Will you now apologise?

 

[saganftw]

Again, I say that there seem to be about as many ACD apologists on this forum as Armstrong apologists.

they are preparing for LA retirement,contador is the new good/evil

 

[montagna lunga]

Now he has no choice but to pin it up the hill and see if AC can hang. either way it's a win win for pure racing fans.

the Tour is a race of traditions as much as who crosses the line first. And it appears that ... just like Berto, you guys have no respect for the maillot jaune either!

Its more than a prize, regardless of who's wearing it. Berto sullies it.

Liggett says it was a great race today?
You say it's a win-win for "pure" race fans?
Had Berto and Menchov and Sanchez sat up up for a bit,
THEN we'd have seen a great race.

-30-

 

[la.margna]

I don't understand how it can be tainted when Andy was gifted minutes when Cancellara neutralized one of the early stages (#2?) which in effect saved the Tour for Andy. Additionally Contador could've attacked Andy Sunday when he foolishly drifted back to his team car for food and hydration before the summit of the penultimate climb. It's really quite doubtful that had Contador attacked at that moment with the advantage he had in numbers (support) versus what Andy had at that moment (C.A. Sorenson), Andy would have undoubtedly lost at minimum 30 seconds and thus his overall lead in the race.

Since I have yet to view today's stage and I'm assuming this thread is based on what transpired today, I can only comment on what I'm reading in the posts.

So you haven't seen the stage and compare it to other stages? gimme a break... had, would, could, should. please post to this thread only thoughts and views about today and only for the guys who actually saw it, thanks.

 

[VeloCity]

To all the Armstrong haters out there, no matter how much u criticize him, I'm sure Armstrong would have waited if he were to be in Contador's shoes today. just like Jan ulrich waited for him back in 2003.

Like the time Armstrong waited for Zulle in '99 after Zulle was caught behind a crash? Or the time Armstrong waited for Mayo after he crashed on the cobbles? Or like last year, when Armstrong waited for his teammate Contador after AC missed the break? If memory serves, in all three instances Armstrong had teammates go to the front and put the hammer down.

 

[Polish]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zcN2HrkrnF4

watch the vid
Andy attacks, Vino chases
AS hits a bumps and drops his chain
Contador veers to left and flys by and continues to "attack"
even vino waits

The new definition of poor sportsmanship = Contador
Menchov and SS do the same.....

sad, he deserves the boooos!

Menchov and SS HAD to chase Contador.
If Contador did not attack, Menchov & SS would NOT have initiated one.

Agree with everthing else you say though.

 

[Ripper]

Nobody waited. Not one single person.

Perhaps "not attacked" would be better then. I certainly noticed that Vino did not put the hammer down, when he could have joined with ACD at that juncture and made for even more damage on the downhill.

I like Vino even more now.

And while I have quite appreciated ACD's racing in general, he looked a bit like a smug a** on the podium, so methinks he knows he has perhaps not been the most sporting of folks

 

[roundabout]

Again, I say that there seem to be about as many ACD apologists on this forum as Armstrong apologists.

A dominant rider is easy to like.

 

[nia O'Malley]

While all this leaves a bad taste in the mouth the level of Sportsmanship in this tour was FIRMLY established by Saxo Bank on stages 2 and 3 Cancellara killing st2 to suit the Schlecky's then Cancellara and Schleck attacking after frank fell on the cobbles IN FULL KNOWLEDGE that AC was behind the crash, didn't wait then did they.

I've had another look at the incident, Frame by Frame.

Yes, Contador goes by and he was responding to AS's attack going full bung when he did, AS's feet were still on the pedals at the time. When AC goes past he's countering maybe unsure what's gone.Menchov and Sanchez can have no doubt, Schleck's feet were down by then. Vino went straight on the radio to say but was that to tell AC to attack?? Either way, AC looked to ease back and certainly waited till Menchov and Sanchez were there and if they went then AC HAD to follow, no option.

So by some of the garbage I've read on this thread we are to accept that sportsmanship is okay when it favours Saxo but it's wrong when it suits someone else????

Do you think for one second that anybody would have even DARED to attack if, say, Bernard Hinault said NO? Not if they valued their life they would not.

If that is what happened, it just shows in technicolour that Contador is Not The Boss

 

[MKirilenko]

Good! he got over it (as he should.). Great stuff.

As even himself got over it, maybe many, many others should have too... just saying

 

[Dr. Maserati]

That's interesting, because we now know from AC that he did not wait. He said he had no idea about the mechanical. I think he will change his opinion.

BPC - serious question - have you the quote where AC said he had no idea of Schlecks mechanical.
EDit Found it in VN.

 

[Futuroscope]

No cycling news is right. Contador passed and attacked Schleck. We now know from AC himself that he was on the limit and was not waiting. All the more amazing then that AS managed to get the gap down to ten seconds by the top. Your guy might have lost another minute today if not for this chain problem.

you must live in a dream world. without the mechanical schleck would have gained nothing (zero seonds) on contador. contador did respond to schlecks attack and what would have most likely happened is that they would have been together over the mountain top.

 

[cyclestationgiuseppe]

While all this leaves a bad taste in the mouth the level of Sportsmanship in this tour was FIRMLY established by Saxo Bank on stages 2 and 3 Cancellara killing st2 to suit the Schlecky's then Cancellara and Schleck attacking after frank fell on the cobbles IN FULL KNOWLEDGE that AC was behind the crash, didn't wait then did they.

I've had another look at the incident, Frame by Frame.

Yes, Contador goes by and he was responding to AS's attack going full bung when he did, AS's feet were still on the pedals at the time. When AC goes past he's countering maybe unsure what's gone.Menchov and Sanchez can have no doubt, Schleck's feet were down by then. Vino went straight on the radio to say but was that to tell AC to attack?? Either way, AC looked to ease back and certainly waited till Menchov and Sanchez were there and if they went then AC HAD to follow, no option.

So by some of the garbage I've read on this thread we are to accept that sportsmanship is okay when it favours Saxo but it's wrong when it suits someone else????

When Sparticus made everyone slow, no one had to, they just did. Their bad.
Saxo rode the front on the cobbles, they did not stop and wait for Frank. When Chavenel flatted he was already off the back. Contador rode as well as he could in that stage all things considered.
Attacking a guy with a mechanical is a cowards tactic.

 

[VeloCity]

the Tour is a race of traditions as much as who crosses the line first. And it appears that ... just like Berto, you guys have no respect for the maillot jaune either!

Could say the same about AS not waiting for maillot jaune Chavanel on St 3, after Chav had the one or two punctures/bike changes, no? Seems to me that in that instance, AS had Cancellara go to the front and put as much time on them as he could.

No respect for Chavanel in the maillot jaune then, was there. But I'm sure this was different. Somehow.

 

[2wheels]

To sum up, I dont really understand why so many ppl are aiming for Contador with their frustration. Why no1 hates Menchov? With less than 2 mins to Schleck, he can easily get past him on ITT, if he stays with AS on the next 2 stages.

Menchov is fully entitled to follow Sanchez; that's the man between him and a podium spot. No bad on him today, from what I saw of the race. Sanchez and Conta, however, were specifically attacking the yellow jersey's mechanical. Big difference.

 

[IndyJoe]

Nobody waited. Not one single person.

Vino didn't stop, but he certainly slowed as AC blew past and continued to counterattack. AC set the tone. He should've rode tempo plain and simple, and waited to jump on the wheels of others if they chose to attack the MJ. It was a weaksauce move. A chickensh** move. A classless move.

 

[Wergeland]

This video should make it clear what happened (even better than what I saw on Versus):

http://www.steephill.tv/players/eurosport/v1/?title=Andy%20Schleck%20drops%20his%20chain%20at%20a%20key%20moment%20-%20Tour%20de%20France%202010&id=20948447

Yes. Andy opens a significant gap to Alberto. Andy has a mechanical. Vino waits while Alberto attacks.

 

[nia O'Malley]

As even himself got over it, maybe many, many others should have too... just saying

Hahaha, yes.
I had gotten over it by halfway through the descent, myself

If Andy is good enough to win it, he'll win it still. If he is not, he won't. Period. And I'm a fan of Andy's, as in I want Andy to win it bar no others. (well, Frank, but of Andy's by default)