The official debate: Should Contador have waited for Schleck?

[MKirilenko]

Sylvain Chavanel is 30 minutes behind the real race today. While impressive, he was never going to be a factor in this race. Racers know it, people in France know it, dogs know it. The only people in denial regarding this fact are the Contador apologists.

Phew, pitiful comment. So, before stage 3 you knew that Chavanel would be 30mins down? As I said, you're making up rules t hat doesnt exist. Its the jersey that counts, not the rider thats in it, that can only be the rule you originally reffered to.

 

[phlatties]

i laugh at myself when i armchair quarterback plays after the fact. none of us wannabes have never been or going to be in the tdf. They're grown men it will sort out itself. if AS wins...what a true champion even after the "attack". if AC wins what a "paper" champion because of the attack?

I think we just got ourselves a memorable tour. Let the race happen. They're always reflecting on how the Tour mimmicks life. Somedays you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue. Life goes on. If you want to sit and cry foul all day life doesn't care. Race on gentlemen! I'm a fan again!

 

[fatandfast]

That is not what the camera showed. Shrek was already seconds ahead of Contador when the mechanical.

Steephill tv has the video of Andy jumping and Alberto and Vino are attempting to answe when his chain jumps off.Alberto was not boxed in. They should just do the stage again so that everybody will be happy. No rest day

 

[scribe]

Phew, pitiful comment. So, before stage 3 you knew that Chavanel would be 30mins down? As I said, you're making up rules t hat doesnt exist. Its the jersey that counts, not the rider thats in it, that can only be the rule you originally reffered to.

All these riders know it and Sylvain Chavanel would also be the first to admit it. If you think all the riders don't understand clearly who the GC guys are entering the season, then there is no hope for you. You don't really understand the sport.

 

[Biological Entity]

I love how everyone is saying AC attacked and kept attacking to the top. Wtf race were you watching? IF AC can drop the group in an attack to chase AS down, then why didn't he do the same later up the climb and drop DM and SS with the same burst? He didn't, he went hard when he went by AS and hammered for about 30 secs then shut it down and began pacing at high tempo. This allowed DM and SS to catch him, then he began looking back down the road and talking with DM and SS. At that point it seemed they decided as a group to continue high tempo riding. If AC would have truely attacked, he would have tried to gap those 2 again, he never did. If AC had bad legs, how could he jump out of the 10 man group and begin bridging to AS>?

Lots of haters on here. Bad taste from AC getting MJ like this, but when everything is said and done, don't think it will make one iota of difference in the end. I thought AS made a major error yesterday which would cost him in the TT. Does AS actually think that he can keep 2 mins or less on AC, DM or SS in the ITT? Very very doubtful imho.

If AC did not attack then that means he was not ABLE to attack. It wasn't because he was waiting since he said he did not know Schleck had a problem. Given that, I think it's highly likely that Schleck would have at least had a gap by the top of the mountain. If he worked with the winner he might have been able to keep that gap down the mountain instead of having to do all the work himself and losing 30s.

Of course we cannot know for sure, but my best guess is Schleck would have put about another 20 seconds into Contador today.

 

[flicker]

I love how everyone is saying AC attacked and kept attacking to the top. Wtf race were you watching? IF AC can drop the group in an attack to chase AS down, then why didn't he do the same later up the climb and drop DM and SS with the same burst? He didn't, he went hard when he went by AS and hammered for about 30 secs then shut it down and began pacing at high tempo. This allowed DM and SS to catch him, then he began looking back down the road and talking with DM and SS. At that point it seemed they decided as a group to continue high tempo riding. If AC would have truely attacked, he would have tried to gap those 2 again, he never did. If AC had bad legs, how could he jump out of the 10 man group and begin bridging to AS>?

Lots of haters on here. Bad taste from AC getting MJ like this, but when everything is said and done, don't think it will make one iota of difference in the end. I thought AS made a major error yesterday which would cost him in the TT. Does AS actually think that he can keep 2 mins or less on AC, DM or SS in the ITT? Very very doubtful imho.

Smart tactics by AC waiting for fast tt men for the descent. Also very unsportsmanlike.

 

[Biological Entity]

Steephill tv has the video of Andy jumping and Alberto and Vino are attempting to answe when his chain jumps off.Alberto was not boxed in. They should just do the stage again so that everybody will be happy. No rest day

The reason why it's harder for Schleck to attack or follow Contador's attacks at times is it takes him longer to get up to full speed, whereas Contador is good at sharp changes of pace. What we were seeing is AS about to put it in the big ring and start flying. That's when the pressure would have hit AC - not the initial attack.

 

[El Pistolero]

Found a good vid!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HP9OR-Pz2Yk

You can clearly see here that AC was in the back and surprised bc of Andy Schleck's attack(AC's own mistake), but he was already attacking before Andy Schleck's chain fell off! AS wouldn't have broken AC today...

 

[VeloCity]

All these riders know it and Sylvain Chavanel would also be the first to admit it. If you think all the riders don't understand clearly who the GC guys are entering the season, then there is no hope for you. You don't really understand the sport.

Wait, so, let me get this straight: you only show respect for the guy wearing yellow when he's an overall contender? ie someone like Chavanel is not worthy of AS' respect? Is that how it works?

 

[Publicus]

Will you now apologise?

What would I apologize about? I said he blows by Andy on his left while Andy is still on his bike. So does the rest of the group. Nobody stopped (that I saw).

Again, what am I apologizing about?

 

[Futuroscope]

That's racing. Attacking on a mechanical is not.

he didn't attack. he responded to andy's attack and continued riding up the mountain. he was already coming up with great speed from behind.

 

[nia O'Malley]

When I said the french crowd booed Contador........ this stage is so close to Spain that half the crowd must have been spanish.

Wooooooooopsie.

 

[El Pistolero]

he didn't attack. he responded to andy's attack and continued riding up the mountain.

Indd, which you can clearly see in that vid.

 

[Publicus]

Perhaps "not attacked" would be better then. I certainly noticed that Vino did not put the hammer down, when he could have joined with ACD at that juncture and made for even more damage on the downhill.

I like Vino even more now.

And while I have quite appreciated ACD's racing in general, he looked a bit like a smug a** on the podium, so methinks he knows he has perhaps not been the most sporting of folks

Looked to me like Vino shut it down when Andy shut it down because he thought he had shut down the attack. That's what he and AC do all the time. Throw down an attack, notice they aren't gapping people and shut it down.

I noticed that no one else shut it down either.

 

[scribe]

Wait, so, let me get this straight: you only show respect for the guy wearing yellow when he's an overall contender? ie someone like Chavanel is not worthy of AS' respect? Is that how it works?

One more time for you and I'll type is really slowly so that you understand it completely. Every champion wants to be be shown as the strongest rider over the period of a 3 week race. You do not want to be known as the guy who possibly beat the strongest rider because of a single mechanical incident. Therefore, no one of character will attack in that situation when the road has carefully identified the strongest riders in the race.

 

[roundabout]

Jeebus, here comes the every did it/ it's been done before defense. Are you guys for real?

 

[Oldman]

Smart tactics by AC waiting for fast tt men for the descent. Also very unsportsmanlike.

All nanoseconds of a long Tour. If he waited for them he should be commended. Is he supposed to sit up and pace AS back to Menchov? If AS is to be the Tour champion he would need to overcome a little adversity. This point will be moot if Menchov takes over his position on the podium, don't you think?

 

[Arnout]

One more time for you and I'll type is really slowly so that you understand it completely. Every champion wants to be be shown as the strongest rider over the period of a 3 week race. You do not want to be known as the guy who possibly beat the strongest rider because of a single mechanical incident. Therefore, no one of character will attack in that situation when the road has carefully identified the strongest riders in the race.

I'll type even more slowly.

It. was. no. mechanical. incident.

 

[Anonymous]

I watched the tape again: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zcN2HrkrnF4

Ask yourself this, if Contador didn't wait some, how did Menchov and SS catch him? Once they caught him, they went through (Contador was looking back before and after they caught him) and Contador latched on. Maybe he should have ridden their wheels, but fact is that he did wait initially because there is no way SS and Menchov were strong enough to go with him when he attacked out of the bunch, why would have they been able to catch him if he were still going full gas?

Look at the tape. Do we need a thread on why SS and Menchov didn't wait too, or can we add them to this thread also?

 

[scribe]

Looked to me like Vino shut it down when Andy shut it down because he thought he had shut down the attack. That's what he and AC do all the time. Throw down an attack, notice they aren't gapping people and shut it down.

I noticed that no one else shut it down either.

They couldn't shut it down. Contador was blowing the field apart. I think in a world without race radios, this excuse would seem plausible. But it boils down to the character of the opponent.

 

[2wheels]

heheh I was wondering the same thing...this scribe character is fun to read. I wonder if he is a fiction writer...

Hey, I think Scribe's posts are consistently among the best. I'm also noting a correlation between Conta fanboys and just plain dumb posts about how Chavanel deserved to be treated as a serious yellow jersey candidate way back in Stage 3.

 

[Biological Entity]

What would I apologize about? I said he blows by Andy on his left while Andy is still on his bike. So does the rest of the group. Nobody stopped (that I saw).

Again, what am I apologizing about?

Okay, will you at least say you would have liked to see Contador win the tour in a fair way and not due to his opponents chain falling off? He may well still have won but it would have been nice to see him do it due to a great attack or something, right?

 

[Arnout]

All nanoseconds of a long Tour. If he waited for them he should be commended. Is he supposed to sit up and pace AS back to Menchov? If AS is to be the Tour champion he would need to overcome a little adversity. This point will be moot if Menchov takes over his position on the podium, don't you think?

Can't happen.

Andy Schleck does not see Menchov and Sanchez as contenders. So they shouldn't be bothered with what happens to Schleck.

 

[MKirilenko]

All these riders know it and Sylvain Chavanel would also be the first to admit it. If you think all the riders don't understand clearly who the GC guys are entering the season, then there is no hope for you. You don't really understand the sport.

Pure lack of any sense at all in ur understanding of that rule. As I said many times, u just made it up to suit you. Please draw a line where the GC contenders list begin, should it be after Evans, Sastre, maybe Gesink? Wasnt Rogers the GC contender? Hes only 3 mins faster than Chavanel... Lol, bs

 

[indurain666]

Come on you LA fanboys, give AC a break. It is not AC's fault that LA is off the back and on his way to jail.