Teams & Riders The official Egan Bernal is the new Egan Bernal thread

[Bonimenier]

Okay you didn't say he'd win but you did say he would be in pink.....

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Not confidently though

 

[jmdirt]

EB is looking solid!

 

[BlueRoads]

Do we always have to find out "the true level" of a rider? He's competing here and so far he's by far the best. "If Remco was here"... is starting to become "If the Slovenians were here..."

 

[Valv.Piti]

I dont really care about the competition, if hes looking by far the strongest each day, im totally sold. I already am, but I dont think we can hold the competition against him - not many riders have looked this superior to me on each day the roads goes up.

 

[jmdirt]

His position on the bike is quite extended indeed (even if talking about pro riders). But I don't see it to be any less extended now than it had been before the back issue appeared.

I belive he had it adjusted in terms of his back problems though. However, the source of his back pain, is that one of his legs is shorter than the other. Then I assume the correction of his bike position was mainly about using some cleat wedges and this kind of stuff. The extended position surely puts extra stress on his back but that's not the main problem imo. Of course they could've made his position more "relaxed". But it definitely would've took him a loong time to get used to this new position (given he's been riding in this "hyper extended" position since he's started racing on the bike) + it would've been likely less effecient (aerodynamically as well as he could struggle to get comfortable during hard efforrts and pushing big watts).

Then I think that the general approach was more like trying to adjust and preapre his body (by proper strength training etc) to his extended position on the bike. Not the other way around.

Wedges were the tool of choice for quite a while, (make the short leg longer), but I think that the current wisdom is to fit the bike to the short leg. Dropping the post 5-10mm could make a big difference. Looking at his stem and bars (reach), he hasn't shortened anything up there.

 

[limak_]

Wedges were the tool of choice for quite a while, (make the short leg longer), but I think that the current wisdom is to fit the bike to the short leg. Dropping the post 5-10mm could make a big difference. Looking at his stem and bars (reach), he hasn't shortened anything up there.

Thanks for making a point.

As far as fitting the bike to the shorter leg seems reasonable indeed (however having your saddle too low can be as much harmful as having it too high), if you drop the post, the assymetry coming from leg length discrepancy is still there, right? Anyway I'm really curious how they really approached Bernal's case. It's probably not the most appropriate thread for such a discussion but looking at Bernal's performances they apparently did it right.

 

[Cookster15]

I always find it annoying when people downgrade results by saying look who isn't there. Bernal is head and shoulders over everyone who is there and that's all that counts.

 

[limak_]

Do we always have to find out "the true level" of a rider? He's competing here and so far he's by far the best. "If Remco was here"... is starting to become "If the Slovenians were here..."

I guess people will now start saying that Pogacar did not deserve his win because he didn't have to ride against Pogacar.

 

[bNator]

What insults?

Coming second to Pogacar doesn’t count as choking. It was the reality of the situation. There was nothing Roglic could do on that day to prevent Pogacar from winning. Not that it changes anything since choking is an insult in itself - justifiable or not.

If my argument is still too complex for you to consume, I’m happy to oblige with further elaboration.

 

[Bonimenier]

Coming second to Pogacar doesn’t count as choking. It was the reality of the situation. There was nothing Roglic could do on that day to prevent Pogacar from winning. Not that it changes anything since choking is an insult in itself - justifiable or not.

If my argument is still too complex for you to consume, I’m happy to oblige with further elaboration.

Sure it was choking, but I don't see how that is an insult.

 

[bNator]

A tour and a giro beats a tour or 2 vueltas, so its pretty clear where he sits if he wins

Bernal sits at a place where one only wins a GT if neither Roglic or Pogacar attends…

 

[bNator]

Sure it was choking, but I don't see how that is an insult.

Sure it wasn’t.

 

[Bonimenier]

Sure it wasn’t.

If losing a GT on the last day, where you and your team were dominant for almost 3 weeks, isn't classified as choking then nothing is.

 

[Cookster15]

If losing a GT on the last day, where you and your team were dominant for almost 3 weeks, isn't classified as choking then nothing is.

Nobody on the planet would have beaten Pogacar that day and Roglic was still 5th fastest on the stage. No choke.

 

[bNator]

If losing a GT on the last day, where you and your team were dominant for almost 3 weeks, isn't classified as choking then nothing is.

Choking is psychological phenomenon. Choking would be if his physical form allowed him to win that day but he couldn’t handle the gravity of the situation - the stress if you will - in perform subpar.

I don’t believe that to be the case. I think up to the point where he lost virtual lead he performed on par with his physical capacity. That’s why we can’t say it’s a choke. Or as Primož puts it - he did not deserve to win that TDF.

 

[limak_]

Nobody on the planet would have beaten Pogacar that day

I don't know man.. You sure pre-crash Remco wouldn't?

 

[Escarabajo]

Nobody on the planet would have beaten Pogacar that day and Roglic was still 5th fastest on the stage. No choke.

1995, 1998 Pantani, 1996 Riis, 1999, 2001 Armstrong, 2006 Baso. Maybe!!

Note: When I say Pantani I mean in the whole race, not the ITT!

 

[BigCoward]

Bernal sits at a place where one only wins a GT if neither Roglic or Pogacar attends…

Like when Bernal's less talented team mate handed Roglic his a$$ at the giro? Or when he only lost due to time bonuses in 2020 Vuelta? Or when Pog was beaten at the 2019 Vuelta by Valverde, who was about 170 at the time?

 

[bNator]

Or when Pog was beaten at the 2019 Vuelta by Valverde, who was about 170 at the time?

Yeah I don’t think I’ll waste my time debating someone who claims Pogs maiden GT performance was bad…

 

[jmdirt]

Thanks for making a point.

As far as fitting the bike to the shorter leg seems reasonable indeed (however having your saddle too low can be as much harmful as having it too high), if you drop the post, the assymetry coming from leg length discrepancy is still there, right? Anyway I'm really curious how they really approached Bernal's case. It's probably not the most appropriate thread for such a discussion but looking at Bernal's performances they apparently did it right.

I obviously don't know anything about his specific case, but frequently pelvic issues are caused by the shorter leg overreaching, causing soft tissue issues not only in the pelvis, but also the back. In other words, it less about the symmetry/asymmetry, and more about the reach causing inflammation. Again not knowing his case, maybe they did used wedges or insoles to make the shorter leg longer. I don't think that anyone would disagree that getting the seat too low can cause a different bucket of injuries, but I also don't think that 10mm is enough to spark those injuries especially if they did it slowly last fall.

 

[BigCoward]

Yeah I don’t think I’ll waste my time debating someone who claims Pogs maiden GT performance was bad…

Nobody said that, but if makes it easier for you to walk away with your head held high, crack on.

 

[CyclistAbi]

Do we always have to find out "the true level" of a rider?

Always.

 

[Anybody_but..]

Yesterday was comitted a statement that when Egan got to know that The Slovenians go to Tdf he decided to ride a Giro.. - LOL........!
First, such decision in Ineos depends on Bernal wishes maybe in 5-10 %. The rest depends on SDB expectation 'who should win where'.
GT as a Briton is theirs obvious first choice as a TdF leader, the year 2020 was slightly different beacause of 2019 Bernal win. And for Geraint is better to have even protected but still doms (Carapaz and/or Hart) than a co-leader (Bernal). TdF has always been their primary target that's why only Bernal and Ganna from Giro team may be in TdF squad (even Kwiato or Rowe are now huge question marks).
And finally, Carapaz and Tao already won Giro, Bernal - didn't but won TdF and I'm sure he dreams about Giro & Vuelta victories - so Ineos decisions were really obvious.

 

[Savant12]

I'm hoping he can hold this form until the end. I'll take a Froome 3rd week fade rather than a Yates 3rd week collapse.

 

[gregrowlerson]

If losing a GT on the last day, where you and your team were dominant for almost 3 weeks, isn't classified as choking then nothing is.

Choke or no choke?

Did Roglic perform reasonably well in that ITT? I think so.

Let's compare to the 1996 US Masters. Greg Norman shot a final round 78 and Nick Faldo shot a final round 67, turning a 6 shot deficit into a 5 shot advantage/victory. Which means that all Norman had to do was shoot an even par 72 to still win the tournament.

Roglic probably would have had to shoot the equivalent of a 67 to have still won the TDF.

No choke.