Teams & Riders The official Egan Bernal is the new Egan Bernal thread

[Red Rick]

Except that before the Giro ITT they were 2/2 in head-to-head ITT's

Would've said Yates has had both the best and worst ITTs between them.

Bernals TT yesterday was average. Feel like much is made about him being a better ITTer than Quintana, but Quintana got 27th in Milano in 2017. I don't think the difference is that huge.

 

[Forever The Best]

Would've said Yates has had both the best and worst ITTs between them.

Bernals TT yesterday was average. Feel like much is made about him being a better ITTer than Quintana, but Quintana got 27th in Milano in 2017. I don't think the difference is that huge.

Quintana was underrated in TTs in my opinion. He usually held his own for a pure climber and limited his losses.

 

[Vasilis]

Today's ITT for Yates was irrelevant - He was nver going to take a minute off Caruso, nor lose nearly four minutes to Vlasov.

Bernal's TT was not that relevant either. I think he eased off towards the end once he knew it was in the bag. Doesn't make the time difference between them more meaningful though, I agree

 

[Panda Claws]

I doubt that any of them could have done much better though. While it's probable that you aren't going to risk it all in the corners when you have such a buffer it wouldn't make sense either to not give it you all at least from a better safe than sorry perspective. It's not like these guys are afraid of going deep.
Furthermore if you would accept that Bernal and Yates did not try their absolute best then you might as well accept that Caruso didn't either. It's not as if he was the fool of the three and clueless about the futility of his endeavour. So the relative time gaps should stay more-or-less the same.
Lastly even if they did not go 100% they still had to go pretty close to the limit so the impact on their speed would not be that big. As an example, I can accept Bernal not giving it his all but I cannot accept that he could have ridden 30s faster if he wanted to. The riders also have to race pretty hard at the start at least to get an idea of where they are at relatively to the competition. It's not as if one of them slowed down considerably after that.

In this particular case too you have the time of Almeida who had every incentive to go all-out. The time gap between him and the other GC contenders are imo about what you would have expected. This further strengthens my belief that they all did go all-out or at least very close to it.

 

[johnymax]

I still can't believe how S. Yates went from winning an ITT in a WT stage race to his current TT level in 2 years. It goes hand in hand with his inconsistency as a rider.

 

[Red Rick]

I still can't believe how S. Yates went from winning an ITT in a WT stage race to his current TT level in 2 years. It goes hand in hand with his inconsistency as a rider.

That was a really weak ITT field though. I'd say 2nd in the Giro prologue was his best ITT.

 

[Cookster15]

Except that before the Giro ITT they were 2/2 in head-to-head ITT's

Not when Bernal is in top form. Bernal has a very good TT for a GC rider. Yates is nothing special in that regard.

 

[yaco]

Not when Bernal is in top form. Bernal has a very good TT for a GC rider. Yates is nothing special in that regard.

Bernal has yet to show it in a GT - Check the results.

 

[Cookster15]

Bernal has yet to show it in a GT - Check the results.

I checked. Bernal's first grand tour was the 2018 TdF in support of Froome, so small sample size. I prefer to look at TT results in week long stage races. Yates has some good results in TT but is hot and cold - some very bad results too. Plus Bernal is taller and heavier than Yates so a flat TT like Milan logically you would expect Bernal to be better knowing they have comparable watts on long climbs.

 

[johnymax]

That was a really weak ITT field though. I'd say 2nd in the Giro prologue was his best ITT.

I'd agree normally. But Logic said to me that the opening Giro 2019 ITT doesn't count so I listened to him and I don't use that ITT as reference when comparing TT results or TT ability.

 

[johnymax]

I remember discussing before the Giro whether Bernal or Yates were elite GT GC riders. My position was that they need to confirm their 1st tier status in the Giro, because there were too many questions surrounding them. After the race I'd say Bernal has cemented himself as 1st tier, but I don't feel the same about Yates. It's strange because Simon's peak looked even better than Bernal's for a couple of stages. But his incosistency is just too much to put him among the elite.

About Caruso, I have no idea if that was a one hit wonder or has he become a legit podium contender going forward.

 

[mountainroad]

Quintana was underrated in TTs in my opinion. He usually held his own for a pure climber and limited his losses.

I agree. We could name a number of climbers through the years who would go into the final TT of a GT in the lead or high in GC just to lose it after predictably uncompetitive TT performances. Quintana is not one of them.

 

[Red Rick]

I remember discussing before the Giro whether Bernal or Yates were elite GT GC riders. My position was that they need to confirm their 1st tier status in the Giro, because there were too many questions surrounding them. After the race I'd say Bernal has cemented himself as 1st tier, but I don't feel the same about Yates. It's strange because Simon's peak looked even better than Bernal's for a couple of stages. But his incosistency is just too much to put him among the elite.

About Caruso, I have no idea if that was a one hit wonder or has he become a legit podium contender going forward.

For me, Yates and Carpaz are probably the clearest cases of 2nd Tier GC riders right now.

 

[johnymax]

For me, Yates and Carpaz are probably the clearest cases of 2nd Tier GC riders right now.

I was thinking, who would I put alongside Yates but couldn't think of anyone to be honest. I had Carapaz in the 1st tier, but maybe you are right. Let's wait for the Tour with him, though. Maybe 2021 Landa could've been there, but we'll have to wait.

You have Thomas 1st tier, right? I'm not convinced yet tbh, although he looked good in Romandie, I can't deny that.

 

[Red Rick]

I was thinking, who would I put alongside Yates but couldn't think of anyone to be honest. I had Carapaz in the 1st tier, but maybe you are right. Let's wait for the Tour with him, though. Maybe 2021 Landa could've been there, but we'll have to wait.

You have Thomas 1st tier, right? I'm not convinced yet tbh, although he looked good in Romandie, I can't deny that.

I'd have a very narrow tier 1, with just Pogacar, Roglic, Bernal and Thomas.

 

[Cookster15]

I was thinking, who would I put alongside Yates but couldn't think of anyone to be honest. I had Carapaz in the 1st tier, but maybe you are right. Let's wait for the Tour with him, though. Maybe 2021 Landa could've been there, but we'll have to wait.

You have Thomas 1st tier, right? I'm not convinced yet tbh, although he looked good in Romandie, I can't deny that.

Yes THomas looked very good in Romandie. But I am yet to see Carapaz at Ineos replicate the level he showed at Movistar in winning the Giro.

I'd have a very narrow tier 1, with just Pogacar, Roglic, Bernal and Thomas.

Didn't Carapaz beat Roglic in the 2019 Giro? But I must say since moving to Ineos I haven't seen him with that form yet. At TdF was demoted to chasing KOM and still came up empty handed thanks to the rampant Pogacar.

 

[Vasilis]

Yes THomas looked very good in Romandie. But I am yet to see Carapaz at Ineos rep

Didn't Carapaz beat Roglic in the 2019 Giro? But I must say since moving to Ineos I haven't seen him with that form yet. At TdF was demoted to chasing KOM and still came up empty handed thanks to the rampant Pogacar.

Carapaz finished second in the Vuelta to Roglic, which is a pretty good result I think. Sure, Roglic came out of riding the Tour for GC but Carapaz arguably did too. He was on good form there in any case and lost on bonus seconds.

 

[houtdffan]

I agree Contador 2015 was better than Bernal 2019 in the final week. But Landa was stronger than Contador in the mountains even without Finestre stage.

Contador was handling the climbing just fine in the final week. Even put time into both Landa and Aru on the downhill finish stage to punish them for attacking when he flatted

 

[hfer07]

Congrats to Egan for his well earned Giro title - which part of it was possible because of his extraordinary team & teammates. This Grand tour title not only confirms his status as being among the elite top GC contenders, but on a personal level, this triumph is a self assurance on his own abilities & leadership.

Time to take a well deserved rest, get your energy back and calibrate for the 2nd part of the calendar (Olympics + Late Italian races)

 

[Escarabajo]

Carapaz had Roglic against the ropes in Spain 2020. If we are to discuss leadership for the Tour, Ineos can do whatever they want to, I would put my money on Carapaz rather than Thomas. It is his attitude that makes him so dangerous.

 

[Sciatic]

I'd have a very narrow tier 1, with just Pogacar, Roglic, Bernal and Thomas.

Is there a mezzanine?

 

[Pinot's goat]

Carapaz had Roglic against the ropes in Spain 2020. If we are to discuss leadership for the Tour, Ineos can do whatever they want to, I would put my money on Carapaz rather than Thomas. It is his attitude that makes him so dangerous.

With 60km ITT, Thomas > Carapaz.

Carapaz would need to make a long range attack stick to get that sort of time back on Pogacar.

 

[Red Rick]

Carapaz had Roglic against the ropes in Spain 2020. If we are to discuss leadership for the Tour, Ineos can do whatever they want to, I would put my money on Carapaz rather than Thomas. It is his attitude that makes him so dangerous.

Roglic was falling off a cliff at the end of that Vuelta and still won in a Vuelta with a minimal amount of ITTs.

 

[Big Doopie]

simon yates is a complete and utter joke as a GT candidate. this is a virenque, a chiappucci who would lose 6-8 minutes if there were any vaguely normal amount of TT. he should not be in anyway an "overall" contender. he could go for stages and the climbers jersey. it really goes to show you what has happened to the overall competition that someone who literally has one skill and that is it is touted consistently as an overall contender. this is so disappointing.

 

[Red Rick]

simon yates is a complete and utter joke as a GT candidate. this is a virenque, a chiappucci who would lose 6-8 minutes if there were any vaguely normal amount of TT. he should not be in anyway an "overall" contender. he could go for stages and the climbers jersey. it really goes to show you what has happened to the overall competition that someone who literally has one skill and that is it is touted consistently as an overall contender. this is so disappointing.

Hi Bavarianrider.