The Official LANCE ARMSTRONG Thread 2010-2011

[Carboncrank]

I hesitate to even respond to cc but here it goes...

I know it's not The Tour but there are other great races on the calendar. Salvodelli broke his collorbone at the Solvang training camp in February and won Il Grande Giro in May.

That's nice.. and once upon a time he won a single stage of the Tour.

Not buts about it. NOT THE TOUR!

That's why you hesitated.

Shattered his collarbone in march.... hadn't raced in near 4 years... I'd think that might put a cramp on someone training for the Tour de fricking France.

Both he and Johann knew winning the tour was a longshot. That's why the idea of torpedoing Alberto is even more insane than it would otherwise be.
That is my point.

 

[Carboncrank]

Your question has been well answered by others, but I'll chime in just because I cannot believe you don't get this point. Look at Armstrong's great personal wealth, his near God-like status in American sports lore. There is huge interest in his story, especially in the US. Good ol' American boy nearly dies from cancer and repeatedly beats, no thrashes, the Euros at their game in their land. The man transcends the sport in his nation. Check out the house, which wasn't purchased with TDF winners prize money alone, even if he "forgot" to share some with his domestiques. Check out the appearance fees, the celebrity status. How many Armstrong TV commercials have you seen in the US, and how many Kloden commercials have aired in the same period? Now imagine the hype if he won the tour post-retirement and tell me that a Lance Armstrong win won't generate more income than a Levi Leipheimer win. When a certain man from Austin Texas wins he generates cash, beyond what any other cyclist in the world generates.

Sincerely,

Big Talking Buffoon #2

Not just more. Obviously it would be more.

TEN TIMES MORE was the claim.

 

[pedaling squares]

Not just more. Obviously it would be more.

TEN TIMES MORE was the claim.

I consider that claim to be rather conservative.

 

[franciep10]

That's nice.. and once upon a time he won a single stage of the Tour.

Not buts about it. NOT THE TOUR!

That's why you hesitated.

Shattered his collarbone in march.... hadn't raced in near 4 years... I'd think that might put a cramp on someone training for the Tour de fricking France.

Both he and Johann knew winning the tour was a longshot. That's why the idea of torpedoing Alberto is even more insane than it would otherwise be.
That is my point.

Words cannot describe how annoying you are, I'm not sure if you're feeble minded or you just like to pi$$ people off.

 

[Publicus]

That's nice.. and once upon a time he won a single stage of the Tour.

Not buts about it. NOT THE TOUR!

That's why you hesitated.

Shattered his collarbone in march.... hadn't raced in near 4 years... I'd think that might put a cramp on someone training for the Tour de fricking France.

Both he and Johann knew winning the tour was a longshot. That's why the idea of torpedoing Alberto is even more insane than it would otherwise be.
That is my point.

The broken collarbone was a non-issue. Lance was in great shape, was hitting his 2002 numbers in training, and basically said he was there to win. Stop trying to rewrite history.

 

[Carboncrank]

Originally Posted by Carboncrank
That's nice.. and once upon a time he won a single stage of the Tour.

Not buts about it. NOT THE TOUR!

That's why you hesitated.

Shattered his collarbone in march.... hadn't raced in near 4 years... I'd think that might put a cramp on someone training for the Tour de fricking France.

Both he and Johann knew winning the tour was a longshot. That's why the idea of torpedoing Alberto is even more insane than it would otherwise be.
That is my point.

Words cannot describe how annoying you are, I'm not sure if you're feeble minded or you just like to pi$$ people off.

Such a well reasoned argument. So enhancing to your point of view.

All you need to know is how little that means to me.

What pi$$es me of is the core group of forum cranks here making crap up out wholecloth against Lance and JB out of longstanding unjustified hatred.

You keep spewing it out, I'll keep refuting it. This isn't your own personal playground to puke up venom unchallenged. It's a free world and I'm playing within the rules.

Lance isn't going away and neither am I. Get used to it.

If you don't have something to say about what I actually wrote kindly shut up. Resorting to an unprovoked very personal attack just make you look bad.

 

[Carboncrank]

Your question has been well answered by others, but I'll chime in just because I cannot believe you don't get this point. Look at Armstrong's great personal wealth, his near God-like status in American sports lore. There is huge interest in his story, especially in the US. Good ol' American boy nearly dies from cancer and repeatedly beats, no thrashes, the Euros at their game in their land. The man transcends the sport in his nation. Check out the house, which wasn't purchased with TDF winners prize money alone, even if he "forgot" to share some with his domestiques. Check out the appearance fees, the celebrity status. How many Armstrong TV commercials have you seen in the US, and how many Kloden commercials have aired in the same period? Now imagine the hype if he won the tour post-retirement and tell me that a Lance Armstrong win won't generate more income than a Levi Leipheimer win. When a certain man from Austin Texas wins he generates cash, beyond what any other cyclist in the world generates.

Sincerely,

Big Talking Buffoon #2

I haven't seen Lance in any kind of TV commercial in a long time. What commercial is he in?

Again, the claim was that he would generate 10 times the income if he won over Contador. Now that I think about it, that's kind of a slam on Contador isn't it?

 

[Carboncrank]

'98 Telekom, Riis and Ullrich. Not very long ago at all. And in fact, Astana has a pair of TDF winners this season.

Thanks for the answer. I notice they didn't win that year.

I tend to forget Pereiro won.

 

[fuggles]

I haven't seen Lance in any kind of TV commercial in a long time. What commercial is he in?

Again, the claim was that he would generate 10 times the income if he won over Contador. Now that I think about it, that's kind of a slam on Contador isn't it?

Do the seemingly always running FRS ads on Vs count?

Of course he would generate more revenue if he won, easily 10 times. He came in 3rd this year... did he do the rounds with Larry King? Oprah? <insert any media talking head>? No. But Im damn sure he would do all of them if he won. Not to mention, he would pull in more endorsements etc.

Its not a bad thing that the guy is going to make more cash if he wins. Seems natural to me. Big deal. Just admit it.

 

[badboyberty]

If you don't have something to say about what I actually wrote kindly shut up.

As you move the bars every time someone does respond to you I'm not going to bother, but you do know what happens to carbon when it's put under too much stress...

 

[Oldman]

That's nice.. and once upon a time he won a single stage of the Tour.

Not buts about it. NOT THE TOUR!

That's why you hesitated.

Shattered his collarbone in march.... hadn't raced in near 4 years... I'd think that might put a cramp on someone training for the Tour de fricking France.
Both he and Johann knew winning the tour was a longshot. That's why the idea of torpedoing Alberto is even more insane than it would otherwise be.
That is my point.

"I'd think that might put a cramp on someone training for the Tour.." This shows some hesitation of your own and a convenient lack of real training knowledge. The lack of racing was his biggest obstacle. Have you ever been in a big stage race?

 

[pedaling squares]

I haven't seen Lance in any kind of TV commercial in a long time. What commercial is he in?

Sigh. Not sure what your definition of a long time is. Perhaps Lance has been forced off the telly by all those Contador commercials.

 

[Carboncrank]

"I'd think that might put a cramp on someone training for the Tour.." This shows some hesitation of your own and a convenient lack of real training knowledge. The lack of racing was his biggest obstacle. Have you ever been in a big stage race?

So, what you are saying is, in order for someone to have a valid opinion about whether a shattered collarbone on March 23rd might interfere with a racers training for the tour that starts July 4th, you have to have raced a major stage race?
You just eliminated 99 percent or more of the the people who will ever read this.

Have you?

 

[Race Radio]

Then the answer is no. Nobody has broke a collarbone and won the tour the same year. I'll make it easier, find someone who podiumed in the Tour the same year he broke a collarbone.

Fausto Coppi was fragile physically with brittle bones, brought on by malnutrition as a child and the fact that he was a prisoner of war during WWII. He suffered no fewer than twenty major bone fractures from falls while either racing or training. At different times, he broke his collarbone, pelvis, and femur, as well as displacing a vertebra.

Here are some of Coppi's major fractures, and his bigs wins that year

1942: collarbone at the Vigorelli track in Milan/Won Italian National Championships set hour record
1950: pelvis in the Giro d'Italia
1951: collarbone in Milan-Turin/Won Stages in the Tour and Giro
1952: Collarbone on the track in Perpignan/Won BOTH the Tour and the Giro
1954: Cracked head and knee while training/Won KOM at Giro and won Lombardia
1956: displaced vertebra in Giro d'Italia/
1957: Broken thigh in Sardinia
1959: head injuries while training

During an off season durny race Eddie Merckx had an epic crash that resulted in a broken back, twisted pelvis and he was knocked unconscious. Fernand Wambst, the other rider in the crash, died instantly. The crash effected Merckx for the rest of his career, always readjusting his saddle hight. That season Merckx won 37% of all the races he entered, including the Tour AND the Giro in the same year

I realize that you only started following the sport recently and only care about one rider so I would not expect you to know who these guys are. For years riders have won after injury, Armstrong is not the first nor will he be the last.

 

[Anonymous]

I remember something Carl Sagen used to say about people who make claims of psychic powers. "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proofs"

You claims fall far short of that.

Consider you punt out of bounds.

Actually, it was Marcello Truzzi - I only correct you on this because that quote is one of my all-time favourites, especially in cycling when people like to make extraordinary claims such as 'you can't finish the TDF without PEDS'... sorry to side track tho

Carl Sagan said "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence".. similar, but i thought i'd be a quote-nazi and correct you, sorry dude

-------

On a side note, the Lance thread has proven to be a good venting ground for the haters. Keep drinking that hatorade guys,

(just wanted to throw out some bait haha )

 

[Hugh Januss]

Fausto Coppi was fragile physically with brittle bones, brought on by malnutrition as a child and the fact that he was a prisoner of war during WWII. He suffered no fewer than twenty major bone fractures from falls while either racing or training. At different times, he broke his collarbone, pelvis, and femur, as well as displacing a vertebra.

Here are some of Coppi's major fractures, and his bigs wins that year

1942: collarbone at the Vigorelli track in Milan/Won Italian National Championships set hour record
1950: pelvis in the Giro d'Italia
1951: collarbone in Milan-Turin/Won Stages in the Tour and Giro
1952: Collarbone on the track in Perpignan/Won BOTH the Tour and the Giro
1954: Cracked head and knee while training/Won KOM at Giro and won Lombardia
1956: displaced vertebra in Giro d'Italia/
1957: Broken thigh in Sardinia
1959: head injuries while training

During an off season durny race Eddie Merckx had an epic crash that resulted in a broken back, twisted pelvis and he was knocked unconscious. Fernand Wambst, the other rider in the crash, died instantly. The crash effected Merckx for the rest of his career, always readjusting his saddle hight. That season Merckx won 37% of all the races he entered, including the Tour AND the Giro in the same year

I realize that you only started following the sport recently and only care about one rider so I would not expect you to know who these guys are. For years riders have won after injury, Armstrong is not the first nor will he be the last.

Actually Wambst was his derny driver, not another racer.

 

[Carboncrank]

Actually, it was Marcello Truzzi - I only correct you on this because that quote is one of my all-time favourites, especially in cycling when people like to make extraordinary claims such as 'you can't finish the TDF without PEDS'... sorry to side track tho

Carl Sagan said "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence".. similar, but i thought i'd be a quote-nazi and correct you, sorry dude

I don't mind a bit in this case. Language is a difficult beast. Sometimes someone catches the use of it just right. Changing the slightest thing diminishes it.
I probably should have looked it up to make sure I had it right.

That said, I reiterate my claim there is a severe lack of extraordinary evidence to back up the extraordinary claim that Contador was conspired against.

 

[Hugh Januss]

So, what you are saying is, in order for someone to have a valid opinion about whether a shattered collarbone on March 23rd might interfere with a racers training for the tour that starts July 4th, you have to have raced a major stage race?
You just eliminated 99 percent or more of the the people who will ever read this.

Have you?

I don't think he was saying it's a prerequisite but first hand experience certainly helps and you don't seem like you really have any.
BTW. I've raced in stageraces with LeMond, the Grewal clan, Phinney, Hampsten, Bauer, and so on, just to anticipate your next response.

 

[Race Radio]

Actually Wambst was his derny driver, not another racer.

Doh! you are correct.

 

[Race Radio]

I don't think he was saying it's a prerequisite but first hand experience certainly helps and you don't seem like you really have any.
BTW. I've raced in stageraces with LeMond, the Grewal clan, Phinney, Hampsten, Bauer, and so on, just to anticipate your next response.

Craboncrank rode a 100km charity ride this year and did a Tri a few years back. He is an expert in the sport

 

[Hugh Januss]

I don't mind a bit in this case. Language is a difficult beast. Sometimes someone catches the use of it just right. Changing the slightest thing diminishes it.
I probably should have looked it up to make sure I had it right.

That said, I reiterate my claim there is a severe lack of extraordinary evidence to back up the extraordinary claim that Contador was conspired against.

It is not an extraordinary claim at all, they did everything that they could do, short of losing the race to another team to try to get LA to finish on the top step.

 

[Carboncrank]

Fausto Coppi was fragile physically with brittle bones, brought on by malnutrition as a child and the fact that he was a prisoner of war during WWII. He suffered no fewer than twenty major bone fractures from falls while either racing or training. At different times, he broke his collarbone, pelvis, and femur, as well as displacing a vertebra.

Here are some of Coppi's major fractures, and his bigs wins that year

1942: collarbone at the Vigorelli track in Milan/Won Italian National Championships set hour record
1950: pelvis in the Giro d'Italia
1951: collarbone in Milan-Turin/Won Stages in the Tour and Giro
1952: Collarbone on the track in Perpignan/Won BOTH the Tour and the Giro
1954: Cracked head and knee while training/Won KOM at Giro and won Lombardia
1956: displaced vertebra in Giro d'Italia/
1957: Broken thigh in Sardinia
1959: head injuries while training

During an off season durny race Eddie Merckx had an epic crash that resulted in a broken back, twisted pelvis and he was knocked unconscious. Fernand Wambst, the other rider in the crash, died instantly. The crash effected Merckx for the rest of his career, always readjusting his saddle hight. That season Merckx won 37% of all the races he entered, including the Tour AND the Giro in the same year

I realize that you only started following the sport recently and only care about one rider so I would not expect you to know who these guys are. For years riders have won after injury, Armstrong is not the first nor will he be the last.

I mean no disrepect to the racers you mention but what you've done here is so disingenous that I have to call it as I see it.

I like Wikipedia as much as the next guy but you can't just copy paste and unsourced section of a page and expect me to roll over for you. It's halarious that you added "cracked" to "head and knee" from 1954 and if there's any truth to it, it mainly proves the guy was a crashfest.
If in fact it's true he won in '52 after a collarbone, I'll stand corrected but the rest of what you posted about him is irrelevant, like the fact he was a prisioner in WWII. The same Wiki page tells of a well treated prisoner. I'll refrain from mentioning other things about him. He was certainly no pure untainted sportsman who won only through heroic courage over injury.

Eddy Merckx was injured near the end of 1969, after winning 37% of his races, not before.

So congratulations. You found one rider who had some kind of collarbone injury, maybe, who knows when, and won the tour.

I'll stand by my theory that a shattered collarbone with a 5 inch metal plate with 12 screws and a matching incision on March 23rd will impact your fitness on July 4th. It was not the main reason he lost. The main reason he lost was Alberto Contador. But it did have an impact and knowing that is but one of a zillion reasons it would be stupid for Johann to do anything to hurt Alberto's chances. The main result of any such attempt would too likely end with a non Astana rider winning.
I mean Johan is good, but give me a break. No DS would be good enough to manipulate that outcome unless there was some reason to be sure Lance was strong enough pull it off. Lance would have been a longshot even if Alberto hadn't been there.
But he made a good showing, and that drives you guys nuts. Not winning was not enough.

 

[Race Radio]

Blah, Blah, Blah, Lance is my hero, I toss his salad. Blah, Blah, babble.

I understand. I proved you wrong and you are embarrassed so you write some babble that does not make sense....no different from your other posts.

 

[HelmutRoole]

"... and if there's any truth to it, it mainly proves the (Coppi) was a crashfest."

"... I'll stand corrected but the rest of what you posted about him is irrelevant, like the fact he was a (prisoner)* in WWII.

*Corrected for spelling.

What kind of tool runs down Coppi and POWs in the same post?

An LA fanboy, maybe?

 

[Race Radio]

What kind of tool runs down Coppi and POWs in the same post?

An LA fanboy, maybe?

Blasphemy!!

He thinks he can get away with it because he is mentally challenged.