The Official LANCE ARMSTRONG Thread 2010-2011

[peloton]

There's certain things with Lance that make me think he might be sandbagging a bit.

Even with what very little he's shown in europe this year... I can't see THAT Lance finishing where he did in the Tour of the Gila. I mean even the Lance who lost all the time on the CI climb shouldn't finish behind some of the riders he lost to in that race.

Either his form is decreasing from a very low starting point... or he didn't put forth much effort.

Good point.

Looks like in some photos that he is wearing some kind of belt?

 

[thehog]

I am still betting on him using his age and schedule as an excuse for not obtaining the high form needed and then throwing his support behind Leipheimer, portraying himself as a hero for doing so and mugging for the cameras at every opportunity on the road. He needs to make up for last year's PR disaster.

The other option is that he will do exactly what he said he would do. He said that he would do everything to win an eighth. We all know what that means: Four units of blood instead of hematocrit maintenance with microtransfusions or EPO plus one unit on a rest day.

I agree. There has to be an angle and story in this for him to make some more cash before bowing and out and hitting up the triathlon game for some moola. I go with the helping Levi.

Although I think he'll inject and there is no way he'll ever test positive the only way he'll get caught it by a photo or his blood getting stopped at border patrol.

 

[Hugh Januss]

Good point.

Looks like in some photos that he is wearing some kind of belt?

That's his money belt.

 

[r.avens]

That could be it as well.

But I don't see much in the way of effort. It seems like he's going out for a mild sweat rather then trying to test his fitness and see what he's got.

I'm not even really comparing his riding to what we might see in July... I'm saying that rides that he did earlier this year that impressed nobody would have gotten better results then what he did in Gila. He could be sandbagging, he may have given up due to a coming drug issue... or he may just wish he had retired again and no longer give a crap... but it just doesn't seem like he's even bothering with putting a real effort forth.

Look. Everyone wants to go to heaven. No one wants to die. (I say that knowing there's probably 10 atheists here wanting to argue. It's an expression, deal with it.)

Winning another one sure sounds good to anyone. But to leave his unbelievably cushy and glamorous lifestyle to really dig in to preparing must have started to get boring and pointless early on. But as long as RS is willing to keep backing up the Brinks truck to his safe deposit box, what's the harm in playing along for as long as possible? You could say that he IS sandbagging...sandbagging his sponsors.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

I think his form is utter cr@p by his own standard this close to the tdf which is all that really matters.

I know I am the one who says we all need to stop with the circular 'YOUR guy is a doper...NO!! YOUR guy is a doper.' line. But it just occurs to me that it appears that to be in such bad form and proceed with the tdf would require him to be banking on some magic go-go juice just to prevent humiliation.

I say that not because I didn't think it's widely used already. But I believe most guys just use it b/c they know the next guy is. Not as their only hope to ride well. He is going to have to bank on it just to prevent a PR disaster.

Same drum I have been beating longer than anyone, he either won't begin the tdf or will depart shortly after the start, both for the same reasons: due to illness or injury.

On the highlighted above - what is a PR disaster? You & I might agree that this is looking more like 'Comeback 2. 0h 0h', but I believe he knows that Bill & CSE, Nike, Michelob etc can spin a top 10 as a positive.

2009 & comeback 2.0 was not about "them" -read the Vanity Fair article to announce his comeback and it is easy to see what the objective was....

He insisted he had something on his mind. “Something huge, I’m going back to professional cycling. I’m going to try and win an eighth Tour de France.

On a sporting level - finishing 3rd probably hurt - but it did little to effect his marketability. Australia, Italy,Ireland were all willing to throw money in his direction, for merely turning up. American media will highlight his 'progress', if he is 3rd @ 10 minutes, you will hear 3rd - if he is 10th at 3 minutes, you will hear 'just 3 minutes down'.

And I think that is what has happened with Lance this year. He realises he cannot beat Contador - but also realises that keeping a 'rivalry' alive will offer exposure, that is what his real team (CSE) can maximise.

 

[peloton]

That's his money belt.

well played!

 

[r.avens]

On the highlighted above - what is a PR disaster? You & I might agree that this is looking more like 'Comeback 2. 0h 0h', but I believe he knows that Bill & CSE, Nike, Michelob etc can spin a top 10 as a positive.

2009 & comeback 2.0 was not about "them" -read the Vanity Fair article to announce his comeback and it is easy to see what the objective was....

On a sporting level - finishing 3rd probably hurt - but it did little to effect his marketability. Australia, Italy,Ireland were all willing to throw money in his direction, for merely turning up. American media will highlight his 'progress', if he is 3rd @ 10 minutes, you will hear 3rd - if he is 10th at 3 minutes, you will hear 'just 3 minutes down'.

And I think that is what has happened with Lance this year. He realises he cannot beat Contador - but also realises that keeping a 'rivalry' alive will offer exposure, that is what his real team (CSE) can maximise.

I think a PR disaster would be to treat AC with as little respect as he did last year. Whenever he diverges from his script or just ad libs, like the post stage nightly ragefest we got treated to last year, it does NOT help his all important angelic/messianic image. It exposes him as petty and small minded. THAT is a PR disaster.

The rivalry may look good from 9 weeks away, but when it actually looks like a tired old man chasing hopelessly, it will be like the latter years of Muhammad Ali's boxing career. People want it to go away because it's just too sad to watch. I don't think there is a serious rival on all of RS. Certainly not LL. MAYBE Kloden. Say whatever you want about Americans, but I believe we are savvy enough to know when we are the victims of media spin.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

I think a PR disaster would be to treat AC with as little respect as he did last year. Whenever he diverges from his script or just ad libs, like the post stage nightly ragefest we got treated to last year, it does NOT help his all important angelic/messianic image. It exposes him as petty and small minded. THAT is a PR disaster.

The rivalry may look good from 9 weeks away, but when it actually looks like a tired old man chasing hopelessly, it will be like the latter years of Muhammad Ali's boxing career. People want it to go away because it's just too sad to watch. I don't think there is a serious rival on all of RS. Certainly not LL. MAYBE Kloden. Say whatever you want about Americans, but I believe we are savvy enough to know when we are the victims of media spin.

We are in agreement - there is no 'viable' 'rivalry' between Contador and Lance....... yet I have read it often.
I am not saying it is true - I am saying it can be spun, last year by the end of the Tour Lance was nearly 39 and 4 years away from the sport!

Are Versus gearing up for another Tour? Who is the poster boy?

 

[r.avens]

We are in agreement - there is no 'viable' 'rivalry' between Contador and Lance....... yet I have read it often.
I am not saying it is true - I am saying it can be spun, last year by the end of the Tour Lance was nearly 39 and 4 years away from the sport!

Are Versus gearing up for another Tour? Who is the poster boy?

As if versus needed any prodding, there is only one cyclist in the world in their myopic fantasyland and then there's a buncha tan skinned euro guys with too many vowels in their names trying to jam a frame pump in his spokes. And no, I just sad that in fun, I do not allege any racism. (Seriously.)

As someone who has been involved in marketing for about 20 years and also used to spend a lot of time studying it, I have to tell something that a lot of people may suspect is true but don't really know for certain: all these corporations with these $100+ million annual ad budgets.....they know about as much as you and I do how to spend it effectively. And that is being kind. Most of them, even high on the S&P 500 list just copy their main competitor because they've never had an original thought in their lives and never will.

When my own business was growing and gaining word of mouth, it was really weird to me because people would drop my company's name like well...look at what Joe's Widgets is doing! If they are advertising here and using such and such promotion, then you should, too. And competitors would begin imitating my own marketing campaigns that I had already learned from bitter experience were abject failures!

It's no different at the top. There's just more zeros on the checks. That's how jerks (like Lance, but he is far from alone) become spokespeople and bounce from one multi billion dollar sponsor to the next and meanwhile the marketing companies try and spin the results of their campaigns, good or bad. They are awesome at spin. Everyone I ever dealt with thought that they were singlehandedly responsible for my success (in the time I was successful, which was all too brief.) and would shout it all over town. Imagine their confusion when they'd come to me for a new ad campaign and I told them we were 'headed in a new direction' as the expression goes. After all they had done for me....???

If you are hoping for some sort of karmic comeuppance for LA, please don't hold your breath. Once you get that high up, no one has the balls to say, yeah, we threw $10 million his way and have little to show for it. But don't worry, they don't know enough to know it was wasted on him. Or does anyone think that Michelob ultra's sales wouldn't be precisely what they are had they not hired any celeb spokesperson at all but just ran some ads and put the siht on the shelves.....??? Here's another for good measure.

 

[altark123]

On the sandbagging, he does almost seem to be doing that. I don't know if it is downplay expectations, but those are already set so high by himself and his people I don't think that is it. If he is sandbagging, it could only be some sort of attempt (feeble, meaningless maybe) to make his competition he is now officially irrelevant.

There was a post on here earlier saying that he may have finished way down on one of the climbs at the Gila, but that he was sitting back at the team car just before they hit the climb and easily rode up through the pack and put in work on the front. This could be an indication that he wasn't racing to win for some reason or another when he may have had some form. The one I don't understand him sandbagging would be the ITT.

 

[Ferminal]

I am still betting on him using his age and schedule as an excuse for not obtaining the high form needed and then throwing his support behind Leipheimer, portraying himself as a hero for doing so and mugging for the cameras at every opportunity on the road. He needs to make up for last year's PR disaster.

The other option is that he will do exactly what he said he would do. He said that he would do everything to win an eighth. We all know what that means: Four units of blood instead of hematocrit maintenance with microtransfusions or EPO plus one unit on a rest day.

I'm not writing him off... No way. This is all part of the Ferrari master plan. Either ultra competitive top3, or he will play it like the Giro - "here supporting Levi" and finish 10th-25th.

That reminds me - I haven't heard the "Lance will be much stronger in 2010 because it will be his 2nd season back, he will be better for his 2009 TdF ride" in a while.

 

[ImmaculateKadence]

I think that's right. He looks almost emaciated in some photos. I'm really shocked at the disparity, but I've stopped worrying about whether he is fat or not. What's striking me as odd is how his fitness level seemed to spike at Flanders and pretty much dropped thereafter. I know Tour of Gila wasn't anything special, but him getting spit out the back in the mountains and then getting beaten by several members of his Trek Under 23 team can't be a good sign.

I'm with you on that. The only reason I ever really noticed is because he and his camp were so vocal about how he dropped weight. It doesn't seem to be the case. I don't think he's gained any either, but he hasn't dropped what they said he did...whatever.

About your other point, I know what you mean. He looked sharp in Flanders and less than mediocre in every other race. I honestly think it's because he is bored just going through the motions in preparation for the Tour, but in Flanders he was actually having fun. In Cali we'll see him be the domestique for Levi and maybe test his legs a little bit in the mountain or in a break. By July, we'll see the same spike we saw in Flanders.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

As if versus needed any prodding, there is only one cyclist in the world in their myopic fantasyland and then there's a buncha tan skinned euro guys with too many vowels in their names trying to jam a frame pump in his spokes. And no, I just sad that in fun, I do not allege any racism. (Seriously.)

As someone who has been involved in marketing for about 20 years and also used to spend a lot of time studying it, I have to tell something that a lot of people may suspect is true but don't really know for certain: all these corporations with these $100+ million annual ad budgets.....they know about as much as you and I do how to spend it effectively. And that is being kind. Most of them, even high on the S&P 500 list just copy their main competitor because they've never had an original thought in their lives and never will.

When my own business was growing and gaining word of mouth, it was really weird to me because people would drop my company's name like well...look at what Joe's Widgets is doing! If they are advertising here and using such and such promotion, then you should, too. And competitors would begin imitating my own marketing campaigns that I had already learned from bitter experience were abject failures!

It's no different at the top. There's just more zeros on the checks. That's how jerks (like Lance, but he is far from alone) become spokespeople and bounce from one multi billion dollar sponsor to the next and meanwhile the marketing companies try and spin the results of their campaigns, good or bad. They are awesome at spin. Everyone I ever dealt with thought that they were singlehandedly responsible for my success (in the time I was successful, which was all too brief.) and would shout it all over town. Imagine their confusion when they'd come to me for a new ad campaign and I told them we were 'headed in a new direction' as the expression goes. After all they had done for me....???

If you are hoping for some sort of karmic comeuppance for LA, please don't hold your breath. Once you get that high up, no one has the balls to say, yeah, we threw $10 million his way and have little to show for it. But don't worry, they don't know enough to know it was wasted on him. Or does anyone think that Michelob ultra's sales wouldn't be precisely what they are had they not hired any celeb spokesperson at all but just ran some ads and put the siht on the shelves.....??? Here's another for good measure.

I'm not sure you're getting my point, I am agreeing with you - imo LA is not as motivated/focussed this year as he realises he gets paid for 'publicity' and by just taking part LA gets that publicity in the US market. 3rd, 7th, 10th, the PR people will spin it the same.

Which is why I don't hold the view of others here that he will be a DNS at the Tour.

(I was in the US last July and was at a 'tiki-bar' and remember a 20 or 30 second clip from ESPN saying LA had retained second (it was a flat stage) which went on to describe his previous results in the race and ignored the stage winner - the only other rider they mentioned was a Kan-sell-ara .....)

 

[patricknd]

I'm not sure you're getting my point, I am agreeing with you - imo LA is not as motivated/focussed this year as he realises he gets paid for 'publicity' and by just taking part LA gets that publicity in the US market. 3rd, 7th, 10th, the PR people will spin it the same.

Which is why I don't hold the view of others here that he will be a DNS at the Tour.

(I was in the US last July and was at a 'tiki-bar' and remember a 20 or 30 second clip from ESPN saying LA had retained second (it was a flat stage) which went on to describe his previous results in the race and ignored the stage winner - the only other rider they mentioned was a Kan-sell-ara .....)

damn straight. why would they want to talk about some weird foreigner? there's a dang ole texan in the race!

 

[Hugh Januss]

I'm not sure you're getting my point, I am agreeing with you - imo LA is not as motivated/focussed this year as he realises he gets paid for 'publicity' and by just taking part LA gets that publicity in the US market. 3rd, 7th, 10th, the PR people will spin it the same.

Which is why I don't hold the view of others here that he will be a DNS at the Tour.

(I was in the US last July and was at a 'tiki-bar' and remember a 20 or 30 second clip from ESPN saying LA had retained second (it was a flat stage) which went on to describe his previous results in the race and ignored the stage winner - the only other rider they mentioned was a Kan-sell-ara .....)

Problem there lies in the fact that he is 39 years old and if he lets it slip too much in the preparation the PR guys might be having to spin a top 40. That might be a little harder for them to pull off.

 

[BikeCentric]

pshaw pshaw. to take offense is to give power to the offender that he doesn't have nor deserve.

I just think you needed to take into consideration that cycling is the best route to physical and mental wellness on the planet, if you disagree with CC, disagree with him on the merits. He left plenty there.

I have struggled with my weight since I was four. Yes, 4. And probably will forever.

Why do you guys get so overheated over a troll?

Ravens, here are some good books that can help:
"Racing Weight" - Matt Fitzgerald
"Sports Nutrition for Endurance Athletes" - Monique Ryan
"Endurance Sports Nutrition" - Girard Eberle

 

[Oldman]

I'm not sure you're getting my point, I am agreeing with you - imo LA is not as motivated/focussed this year as he realises he gets paid for 'publicity' and by just taking part LA gets that publicity in the US market. 3rd, 7th, 10th, the PR people will spin it the same.

Which is why I don't hold the view of others here that he will be a DNS at the Tour.
(I was in the US last July and was at a 'tiki-bar' and remember a 20 or 30 second clip from ESPN saying LA had retained second (it was a flat stage) which went on to describe his previous results in the race and ignored the stage winner - the only other rider they mentioned was a Kan-sell-ara .....)

I've said it before and say it again-he will start and if he isn't able to finish it will be dramatic as in profitably memorable. If there isn't a future story to tell the endorsements end. Everyone's partially right on this one except those that don't think he'll start, unless something more dramatic happens to prevent it.

 

[Bagster]

RR. I am not a Lance defender. How is it pertinent to Lance if his biological father has made a mistake with his life?

Everything that I have read has stated that Lance has written Gunderson out of his life!

Mate you have to realise that to the hateboyz on here there is nothing, nyet, zip that is good about LA and nothing that he does on the bike or off it that is good will ever be acknowledged by the many Trolls on here.

Last year these guys were writing him off around this time of year..."he won't last a week", "he won't make top twenty" and on and on. As the tdf progressed they had to shift focus to the LA/AC spat because Armstrong was making them look like the idiots they are. By the end of the race there was the expected few mumbles along the lines of.."well he only got third, bet he hated that" (and he probably did cause the guy likes to win as do all great athletes).

Same thing is starting to happen again this year. *** edited by mod

 

[BroDeal]

delted by mod

 

[Bagster]

deleted by mod

 

[Ferminal]

Mate you have to realise that to the hateboyz on here there is nothing, nyet, zip that is good about LA and nothing that he does on the bike or off it that is good will ever be acknowledged by the many Trolls on here.

Last year these guys were writing him off around this time of year..."he won't last a week", "he won't make top twenty" and on and on. As the tdf progressed they had to shift focus to the LA/AC spat because Armstrong was making them look like the idiots they are. By the end of the race there was the expected few mumbles along the lines of.."well he only got third, bet he hated that" (and he probably did cause the guy likes to win as do all great athletes).

Same thing is starting to happen again this year. *** deleted by mod

Pay rise..?

 

[Susan Westemeyer]

Both sides, stop it, or face sanctions. You are all getting on my nerves big time.

Susan

 

[Berzin]

Mate you have to realise that to the hateboyz on here there is nothing, nyet, zip that is good about LA and nothing that he does on the bike or off it that is good will ever be acknowledged by the many Trolls on here.

Last year these guys were writing him off around this time of year..."he won't last a week", "he won't make top twenty" and on and on. As the tdf progressed they had to shift focus to the LA/AC spat because Armstrong was making them look like the idiots they are. By the end of the race there was the expected few mumbles along the lines of.."well he only got third, bet he hated that" (and he probably did cause the guy likes to win as do all great athletes).

Same thing is starting to happen again this year. *** deleted by mod.

*** deleted by mod

If you bothered to look at Armstrong's blood profile from last year, it's easy to see the spike leading up to the Tour. That is one reason he finished so highly. The experts monitoring the bio-passport numbered disregarded this.

As for the course, it was tailor-made for someone who needed to ride the coattails of some very strong domestiques who were more than likely on the same doping program. And that small, inconsequential detail of keeping the testers waiting for half an hour every day is not something that should be dismissed, unless you're a zombie fanboy.

So Armstrong rode last year's Tour with no panache, no attacks in the mountains, and he was a shell of his former self in the time trials. And Contador had to shepard his bloated carcass up Mont Ventoux so as not to lose any more time.

Get your facts straight-being irrational and calling people names isn't the way to make a point. But if your so in love with Armstrong that you must resort to such rubbish as the post I quoted, maybe you are just intellectually not up to the task of stating your point in the traditional Socratic manner.

 

[Roland Rat]

Radioshack bikes to carry names of cancer survivors (because the ones who didn't survive aren't worthy for rememberance? )

http://road.cc/content/news/17148-trek-and-livestrong-team-i-ride-cancer-initiative

Buy a special edition Trek Unity frame/bike and $500 goes directly to Arm.. sorry... Livestrong.

Shall we have a sweepstake on how long it takes for a person to be discovered not having anything to do with cancer but paying for their name to go on the bikes?

 

[Bagster]

*** deleted by mod

If you bothered to look at Armstrong's blood profile from last year, it's easy to see the spike leading up to the Tour. That is one reason he finished so highly. The experts monitoring the bio-passport numbered disregarded this.

As for the course, it was tailor-made for someone who needed to ride the coattails of some very strong domestiques who were more than likely on the same doping program. And that small, inconsequential detail of keeping the testers waiting for half an hour every day is not something that should be dismissed, unless you're a zombie fanboy.

So Armstrong rode last year's Tour with no panache, no attacks in the mountains, and he was a shell of his former self in the time trials. And Contador had to shepard his bloated carcass up Mont Ventoux so as not to lose any more time.

Get your facts straight-being irrational and calling people names isn't the way to make a point. But if your so in love with Armstrong that you must resort to such rubbish as the post I quoted, maybe you are just intellectually not up to the task of stating your point in the traditional Socratic manner.

1. I did study Armstrong's profiles. Only a nut job conspiracy theorist like yourself would claim a "spike". Want to contrast his with other top contenders? Oh thats right most of them didn't publish theirs.

2. A "zombie fanboy"...hmm I guess in your Socratic world that isn't calling people names?

3. Like most hateboyz you make the stupid inference that only Armstrong's team were on the dope, so giving him an unfair advantage.

4. "Shepherd his bloated Carcass up Ventoux"?? And you say I'm the one who needs to get his facts straight? If I remember correctly he finished just behind the two best climbers in the world, rode away from Frank, Wiggo, Nibaldi etc etc. (who must be really down that a bloated carcass beat them!) To refer to him as a "bloated carcass" ( a very emotive un-Socratic description I might add) Is a blatant put down of some very good riders who were not able to "ride the coat-tails" of the lead riders up Ventoux.

*** edited by mod