The Official LANCE ARMSTRONG Thread 2010-2011

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Jul 11, 2010
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Wallace said:
For what it's worth, most of the people who don't like Lance don't like him because they think the evidence is overwhelming that he cheated his way to seven Tour victories, and that all the stuff in your post in just P.R. That's ultimately, all it really comes down to.

He may have cheated - I don't know. Where there is smoke many times ther is fire but he has never tested positive and he is the most tested guy in history. Maybe the rest of my post is about the PR but that is what will build the sport. Having him in the race until the end - win or lose - would generate a huge amount of interest which can only help the sport - would have been a nice sendoff to his retirement. As far as his potential doping - at this point I would leave it alone and move forward with hopefully a clean sport in the future. He is after all going to retire. IF we go through a protracted investigation it will only make the sport look bad and lose fans, endorsements and money - and I can't figure out how they will prove it outside of he said/he said. This is a great sport with great athletes - lets celebrate the gains not the past.

On another note - pretty sad that if you are a successful athlete there will always be people who say you cheated even if there is no evidence - whatever happened to presumption of innocence - not in this day and age (not really referring to Armstrong here - just in general).

Again - I will miss him at the front - but look forward to the next two weeks with AS, AC, CE and group.
 
Aug 13, 2009
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FloridaFlat said:
On another note - pretty sad that if you are a successful athlete there will always be people who say you cheated even if there is no evidence -

Dude, are we talking about the same guy? This is Armstrong we are talking about, there are mountains of evidence.
 
FloridaFlat said:
He may have cheated - I don't know. Where there is smoke many times ther is fire but he has never tested positive and he is the most tested guy in history. Maybe the rest of my post is about the PR but that is what will build the sport. Having him in the race until the end - win or lose - would generate a huge amount of interest which can only help the sport - would have been a nice sendoff to his retirement. As far as his potential doping - at this point I would leave it alone and move forward with hopefully a clean sport in the future. He is after all going to retire. IF we go through a protracted investigation it will only make the sport look bad and lose fans, endorsements and money - and I can't figure out how they will prove it outside of he said/he said. This is a great sport with great athletes - lets celebrate the gains not the past.

On another note - pretty sad that if you are a successful athlete there will always be people who say you cheated even if there is no evidence - whatever happened to presumption of innocence - not in this day and age (not really referring to Armstrong here - just in general).

Again - I will miss him at the front - but look forward to the next two weeks with AS, AC, CE and group.

A shining example of the kind of ignorance that leads me to take a break from the board in July.
 
May 13, 2009
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FloridaFlat said:
He may have cheated - I don't know. Where there is smoke many times ther is fire but he has never tested positive and he is the most tested guy in history. Maybe the rest of my post is about the PR but that is what will build the sport. Having him in the race until the end - win or lose - would generate a huge amount of interest which can only help the sport - would have been a nice sendoff to his retirement. As far as his potential doping - at this point I would leave it alone and move forward with hopefully a clean sport in the future. He is after all going to retire. IF we go through a protracted investigation it will only make the sport look bad and lose fans, endorsements and money - and I can't figure out how they will prove it outside of he said/he said. This is a great sport with great athletes - lets celebrate the gains not the past.

On another note - pretty sad that if you are a successful athlete there will always be people who say you cheated even if there is no evidence - whatever happened to presumption of innocence - not in this day and age (not really referring to Armstrong here - just in general).

Again - I will miss him at the front - but look forward to the next two weeks with AS, AC, CE and group.

fail :facepalm:
 
Moose McKnuckles said:
Magnificent. Two incarnations of BPC on the same thread. FloridaFlat and LadyLuck.

Twice the stupidity.

And as a result:

4785607848_54d0c04434_z.jpg
 
Aug 16, 2009
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I think Lance is going to rest and now can attack at anytime he wants and I am not sure about you but he could cost anyone the tour he wants on anyone of these mountain stages sooooo whoever he wants to win will.

Last time I met lance and rode with him he can handle his bike better than any mortle man so those folks on here who are hating you better get out and understand that riding your bike is hard and sometimes things dont go your way.

VIVA LANCE the walking breathing hope machine, who came back from cancer so who is saying he cant come back for a few minutes in some cycling race.
 
Jul 6, 2010
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Lance Federal Investigation--

Foreign Fan Hate/Retribution Using USA Courts!! Don't Permit This Expensive Injustice!!
Was it worth the $50 million federal dollars from USA tax payers that was spent on the BALCO investigation to put our own Olympic champion in prizon. I don't think so!!! Marion Jones made USA proud when she won several Olympic medals. She used performance enhancing techniques, as did her peers, both foreign and domestic, but only Marion was singled-out for retroactive federal investigation.
"Equal Protection under the rule of law" should not permit politically motivated federal investigations of selected celebrities, such as occurred in the BALCO trials and such as is proposed for LA and a few other elite USA cyclists. Such a prejudiced, high-publicity, retroactive investigation is a re-run of the House Un-American Activity Committee Trials. Like HUAC, the Balco investigation was driven by hatred and celebrity hype, not by justice for all. These trials visited doom retroactively on the few, while the many (guilty) were never called to trial. Assume most elite bikers and home-run kings and Olympic track stars will find methods to enhance their performance, if they anticipate no penalty. Why should Bjarne Riis get to admit his doping, but get to keep his Tour de France win, without the shame and stress of a Federal Investigation threatening him in the midst of competition? If forced to testify before a Federal Grand Jury, Lance will likely suffer complete evisceration. Dear USA, did you enjoy having your tax dollars used to strip Olympic Champion, Marion Jones, of her many gold medals. This done by her own country's unique witch-hunt?? America needs to believe in its heroes. Cancer patients need to trust "Its Not About the Bike" and "Livestrong". Ambitious Investigators and Wall Street Journalists should not be rewarded with fame for coercing an unfair/unequal treatment of celebrity individuals at tax payer expense. Lance-haters, like Floyd Landis and most of France, should not be able to force this "unequal treatment" investigation by the USA Justice Department, for non-criminal behavior, whether guilty or innocent. USA fans and tax-payers!! Enjoin this expensive, wasted, prejudiced, unequally-distributed investigation to Halt!! Stand up for Rule of Law and Equal Treatment! Oppose Foreign Imports of Hatred!!
hungry-ford
---"Former Floyd Landis Believer" ...Hell hath no fury...



Floyd Landis
 
May 8, 2009
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So Armstrong fails and the other thing you can say is "Do not investigate dopping in the USA, it is cheaper to let them dope" That is nice, I wonder if you will follow pro-cycling next year, when you will have no cyclist with an option, at least according to your overhyped media. Hope not.

hungry-ford said:
Foreign Fan Hate/Retribution Using USA Courts!! Don't Permit This Expensive Injustice!!
Was it worth the $50 million federal dollars from USA tax payers that was spent on the BALCO investigation to put our own Olympic champion in prizon. I don't think so!!! Marion Jones made USA proud when she won several Olympic medals. She used performance enhancing techniques, as did her peers, both foreign and domestic, but only Marion was singled-out for retroactive federal investigation.
"Equal Protection under the rule of law" should not permit politically motivated federal investigations of selected celebrities, such as occurred in the BALCO trials and such as is proposed for LA and a few other elite USA cyclists. Such a prejudiced, high-publicity, retroactive investigation is a re-run of the House Un-American Activity Committee Trials. Like HUAC, the Balco investigation was driven by hatred and celebrity hype, not by justice for all. These trials visited doom retroactively on the few, while the many (guilty) were never called to trial. Assume most elite bikers and home-run kings and Olympic track stars will find methods to enhance their performance, if they anticipate no penalty. Why should Bjarne Riis get to admit his doping, but get to keep his Tour de France win, without the shame and stress of a Federal Investigation threatening him in the midst of competition? If forced to testify before a Federal Grand Jury, Lance will likely suffer complete evisceration. Dear USA, did you enjoy having your tax dollars used to strip Olympic Champion, Marion Jones, of her many gold medals. This done by her own country's unique witch-hunt?? America needs to believe in its heroes. Cancer patients need to trust "Its Not About the Bike" and "Livestrong". Ambitious Investigators and Wall Street Journalists should not be rewarded with fame for coercing an unfair/unequal treatment of celebrity individuals at tax payer expense. Lance-haters, like Floyd Landis and most of France, should not be able to force this "unequal treatment" investigation by the USA Justice Department, for non-criminal behavior, whether guilty or innocent. USA fans and tax-payers!! Enjoin this expensive, wasted, prejudiced, unequally-distributed investigation to Halt!! Stand up for Rule of Law and Equal Treatment! Oppose Foreign Imports of Hatred!!
hungry-ford
---"Former Floyd Landis Believer" ...Hell hath no fury...



Floyd Landis
 
FloridaFlat said:
As far as his potential doping - at this point I would leave it alone and move forward with hopefully a clean sport in the future. He is after all going to retire. IF we go through a protracted investigation it will only make the sport look bad and lose fans, endorsements and money - and I can't figure out how they will prove it outside of he said/he said. This is a great sport with great athletes - lets celebrate the gains not the past.
Brilliant, lets just ignore it and sweep it under the carpet...
Is it me, or do Americans love their winning cheats?
 
May 14, 2010
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VeloCity said:
Got some evidence for that, or is it just "common knowledge"? IMO, Lance has had at best a minimal effect on raising the profile of cycling anywhere but in the US.

Right you are. That's why Armstrong can ask for a multi-million dollar appearance fee and only American states like Ireland, Australia and South Africa are happy to cough it up.

If you're going to hate him, be my guest, but don't forget to take your brain on the way there.

EDIT: I just saw whose post I'm disputing. Your strip is funny (if you really are the guy who does it) and you certainly have gotten some notoriety in the shadow cast by this

celebrity rider. But like him or loathe him, if you've been among fans of cycling around the world, you already know how much enthusiasm for cycling and fitness he's engendered

and it can't in fairness be described as minimal.
 
May 4, 2010
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I wanted to post in the why the hate for lance thread, but see why it has been closed. This thread is more than a bit unruly and I assume this post will probably get lost in the shuffle but I'll go ahead instead.

As far as I can gather Lance is hated for the transcendant success he has achieved, the nature of how he allegedly/almost definitely achieved it, and the manner in which he has acted in defence of this success without regard to anybody else's well being/career's/or reputation's. All the reason's are interconnected. Another reason is how he has profited from an admittedly noble cause, but I think as far as these forums go it pertains mostly to the cycling related matters.

I believe much of the fury from these posters has been incited because of the rise of so called "fanboys" who are seen as only taking interest in this great sport because of his participation. In relation, there is an overwhelming emphasis put on success in the Tour de France. For fans of the sport of cycling, which this site and these forums cater to, it is an affront to all the great races and the great feats of talent and hard work that occur throughout an entire racing year. Lance targeted this race for many reasons including it was supposedly his favourite, but also knowing it was the most publicized and would have the most potential to grow his sport while also growing his own brand name.

As far as the rider Lance goes, I don't think many liked the tactics he used to achieve victory. He fostered a type of racing that promoted defensive tactics that only neccessitated small moments of offensive movements which can be considered boring. For nearly all of his tour wins he won through a simple tactical formula of doing well in TT's, attacking once, and defending with an extremely strong (and almost assuredly doped) team of riders dedicated to achieving no other success in the race other than riding themselves into the dirt for him.

Lance the man is a much different animal altogether and I don't believe fairly represented on these or any other forums on account of his notoriety and his public position awarded through his victories.

He was a young, yet extremely talented rider prior to cancer. He won two hilly one day classics early in his career as well as the world road race championship at 21. He was also a cocky young American who rubbed some in the peleton the wrong way. He got his cancer at a young age and it would seem his career, if not his life, would come to an end prematurely. He returned a much different rider than before, showing an ability to recover very much above what he had previously shown. He had always shown ability but now appeared to climb and time trial much better, the two disciplines most important to victory in stage races.

The rest of my post is opinion and conjecture, so don't bother me with proving it. I am not an investigative journalist. I am not going to argue over it. Though if intelligent discussion is brought up I would be more than willing to reply.

Lance was a good rider. Thorough and researched science made him a great rider. But it was his work ethic, his caustic personality, and his indomitable will that made him a transcedant rider. He used means as did many riders, probably most of his main rivals, that I consider to be at the least underhanded and dishonest and at most downright dishonorable cheating. He achieved success through means which he was not endowed. He was nowhere near the most blessed talent to ride France in July. I don't even believed he was the greatest god given talent to try to win the Tour in the seven years that he did. But he did win. He won through a doping program that was as careful as any concieved by any athlete. He won, as shown in his lack of it this year, through his unprecedented luck. He won because like it or not he was an extremely talented cyclist. But mostly he won because he wouldn't allow himself to lose.

Lance is not a nice person. I do honestly believe he exhibits some aspects of a sociopath. He is not the mafioso some would have you believe, but he is a person who is willing to turn all of his ire against you if you do not conform to his worldview. He is also a man that has raised millions of dollars for a good cause (not uncompensated by any means). He is a man who has through some degree helped almost infinetley more people than he has ruined. This does not exonerate him of his actions, but neither does it condemn him. He is a fascinating character study.

I've read these forumns for a few months now. I've always loved the tour as it was passed down to me through my family. Also no other races were shown on tv to me growing up so I still have a more prefixed concentration on it than I do other races. In the past year or two, thanks to expanded coverage and the PCM games, I have been able to expand my interest in the sport twentyfold. I suppose in this circle I could be considered a Lance "fanboy" because his success has increased my interest in cycling. In spite of that I promise I would have followed and loved the tour regardless if he ever rode in it. But I do not know if I would have developed an appreciation and affection for the sport without him. He is complicated. And reading on these forumns, even with all the discussion he gets, I don't believe he ever gets his proper, perspective due. Good and Bad.

Now I hope to not talk about him again unless he does something worthwhile in these coming weeks. Cycling belongs to Alberto, Andy, Cadel, Denis, Levi, Robert, Bradley, Mark, Tyler, Fabian, Tom, Alessandro, Philipe, Sylvain, Jakob, Peter, Tejay, Taylor, Tony, Ryder and the countless like them......
 
A

Anonymous

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You know, I miss real Armstrong fans. These trolls are just tiresome. Canned troll responses are just boring. I mean, this new "don't investigate because it costs too much money" is a new twist, but its stupid...so.......
 
Thoughtforfood said:
You know, I miss real Armstrong fans. These trolls are just tiresome. Canned troll responses are just boring. I mean, this new "don't investigate because it costs too much money" is a new twist, but its stupid...so.......

I don't know, I quite like it... as long as it's brought in across the board. Then I won't have to pay for my weekly shopping at Tesco's, I can drive as fast as I like on the roads, and best of all I'd never have to pay taxes again. Sweet. I'm voting in favour of "do what you want as it's too expensive to investigate".
 
theviciousfishes said:
I wanted to post in the why the hate for lance thread, but see why it has been closed. This thread is more than a bit unruly and I assume this post will probably get lost in the shuffle but I'll go ahead instead.

[snip]

Now I hope to not talk about him again unless he does something worthwhile in these coming weeks. Cycling belongs to Alberto, Andy, Cadel, Denis, Levi, Robert, Bradley, Mark, Tyler, Fabian, Tom, Alessandro, Philipe, Sylvain, Jakob, Peter, Tejay, Taylor, Tony, Ryder and the countless like them......

Good post, very fair and balanced IMHO (and welcome to the forum).

I think I'm going to try and follow suit in that now he's gone as a Tour contender, there's no reason to talk about him until he next animates a stage (and then to discuss only for cycling reasons) the next installment of Flandisgate.

I'm not going to miss Retirement 2.0 for anything though. :p
 
Dec 11, 2009
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Thoughtforfood said:
You know, I miss real Armstrong fans. These trolls are just tiresome. Canned troll responses are just boring. I mean, this new "don't investigate because it costs too much money" is a new twist, but its stupid...so.......

What would a real Armstrong fan be like?
 
Roland Rat said:
Good post, very fair and balanced IMHO (and welcome to the forum).

I think I'm going to try and follow suit in that now he's gone as a Tour contender, there's no reason to talk about him until he next animates a stage (and then to discuss only for cycling reasons) the next installment of Flandisgate.

I'm not going to miss Retirement 2.0 for anything though. :p

+1
can't add much more than that
 
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