The Patrick Lefevere Depreciation Thread

[BR2]

I don't think Alaphilippe needs this kind of motivation. He seems like a per se super motivated person, intrinsically. I have never gotten the impression that he wasn't eager enough in a race, quite the opposite. And it is ungrateful and mean to say things like that, but it is just classic PL and probably about noone but PL and I guess Alaphilippe knows him well enough to not expect anything else.

 

[CyclistAbi]

@Logic-is-your-friend

Maybe indeed it was all Almeida. Best to wait and see on what happens in 2023 season. If that was a one off occurrence. Or if there will be an underlying pattern detected.

For now we can only speculate. I guess.

 

[Bonimenier]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1614715972434231296

 

[CyclistAbi]

Surprisingly it does look like Alaphilippe was able to set some boundaries. Considering he is scheduled for the Tour. And considering Remco got a free hand as selecting five team members for the Giro.

King indeed.

 

[tobydawq]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1617784320005144577

View: https://twitter.com/Domestique___/status/1617784320005144577?t=7xX_J7uFERVg2PKc4Yq6Yg&s=19

 

[Panda Claws]

"What a massive monster"

Pretty much any coach has said things like that get a reaction out of his athletes.

 

[tobydawq]

I think it's deeply bizarre that he keeps blaring the same point publicly again and again.

 

[DNP-Old]

I think it's deeply bizarre that he keeps blaring the same point publicly again and again.

Answering a question is the point of an interview.

 

[Salvarani]

Lefevre does not hold on to a rider because of sentimental reasons. That may also be a key to the sucess that his team has had. He knows when it may be time to cut someone loose and he goes about it in a ruthless way. We can all have an opinion on that, but it has always worked. He has always made a great signing and developed them into a super-star or had someone in his team ready to step up.

If Ala is declining or stops winning. He will have no place in Lefevres team after his contract expires.

Who knows, maybe Ala is not as hungry anymore and past it or problems behind the scenes with his attitude? Injuries and illness may also have gotten the best out of him, as mentioned. We will see.

 

[tobydawq]

Answering a question is the point of an interview.

You bloody well don't have to throw your employees under a bus repeatedly because a journalist asks you a question.

 

[BR2]

Argh...
Of course I'm biased as a I have become a real big fan of Alaphilippe, but this is just deliberate bs to get someone off the paycheck. Well, maybe then you should never have offered him that contract, dude. Other teams would have taken him with kisses.
Where did Ala show he wasn't hungry anymore? He did everything he could last season - within the tight limits that incredible bad luck gave him. Worked hard for his own returns to racing each time. Worked to help Senechal win the French championships. Worked for Evenepoel in the Vuelta until his crash. By the way one of the crashes he was a victim of (none of those looked like he was unattentive or badly positioned, it was really bad luck), was caused by his own team car.

It's okay to say as a manager "we are now focusing on Evenepoel, when Julian's contract up we won't prolongue it" or something like that. Nobody expects eternal gratitude in pro sport. But to badmouth someone just because you don't want to pay his high salary anymore (which I think this effectively is), is terrible behaviour (again).

 

[DNP-Old]

You bloody well don't have to throw your employees under a bus repeatedly because a journalist asks you a question.

Expressing an opinion that isn't positive =/= throwing under the bus. I'd recommend you watch the actual interview and tell me exactly what it is that bothers you so much or where Alain Philippe is ''thrown under the bus''.

 

[tobydawq]

Expressing an opinion that isn't positive =/= throwing under the bus. I'd recommend you watch the actual interview and tell me exactly what it is that bothers you so much or where Alain Philippe is ''thrown under the bus''.

I'd likewise want to know how what he says doesn't bother you.

 

[DNP-Old]

Argh...
Of course I'm biased as a I have become a real big fan of Alaphilippe, but this is just deliberate bs to get someone off the paycheck. Well, maybe then you should never have offered him that contract, dude. Other teams would have taken him with kisses.
Where did Ala show he wasn't hungry anymore? He did everything he could last season - within the tight limits that incredible bad luck gave him. Worked hard for his own returns to racing each time. Worked to help Senechal win the French championships. Worked for Evenepoel in the Vuelta until his crash. By the way one of the crashes he was a victim of (none of those looked like he was unattentive or badly positioned, it was really bad luck), was caused by his own team car.

It's okay to say as a manager "we are now focusing on Evenepoel, when Julian's contract up we won't prolongue it" or something like that. Nobody expects eternal gratitude in pro sport. But to badmouth someone just because you don't want to pay his high salary anymore (which I think this effectively is), is terrible behaviour (again).

What are you even blabbering about?

 

[DNP-Old]

I'd likewise want to know how what he says doesn't bother you.

Well, first off all, Lefevere is correct. Alain Philippe hasn't met his standards, he has compassion for his bad luck but states that at some point it no longer is an anomaly. Second of all, that tweet doesn't really hit the context all that well and makes it sound a lot more emotionless than what actually was said.

 

[DNP-Old]

Let me paint the picture here. The tweet says ''you can’t hide forever'' in regards to crashes and other bad luck. What Lefevere actually said is ''je kunt je daar niet voor eeuwig achter wegsteken''. While in literal translation not incorrect, but doesn't at all hold the same weight as hiding or whatever synonym you want to throw at it.

 

[Netserk]

Answering a question is the point of an interview.

No. It's not a test where you have to get the correct answer to every question.

Rather, the point of an interview is to negotiate the different interests of the interviewer and the interviewee.

 

[DNP-Old]

No. It's not a test where you have to get the correct answer to every question.

Fully depends on who you ask, and, as such, there is no right or wrong. Purely a matter of personal preference, not a matter of under the bus throwing. Lefevere is very direct, just like Dutch people tend to be very direct. There is 0 wrong with that.

 

[BR2]

Well, first off all, Lefevere is correct. Alain Philippe hasn't met his standards, he has compassion for his bad luck but states that at some point it no longer is an anomaly. Second of all, that tweet doesn't really hit the context all that well and makes it sound a lot more emotionless than what actually was said.

First of all it doesn't matter whether he hasn't met his standards because it was not deliberate in any way. He had a talk about it with him, where his manager was present, but what on earth does he want Alaphilippe to do different? Maybe not go out anywhere anymore, to not catch Covid, okay, that's pretty much the only thing I could imagine where you could have some kind of influence, although that's very small.
He's effectively saying these crashes are Alaphilippe's fault and he expects better, otherwise - otherwise what? As far as I know contracts are contracts and you cannot just cut them down how he also implies concerning Asgreen. Like it's his good will he didn't do that.

Maybe they actually all have contracts which rely on a number of race days. In that case I could understand: if he was able to pay less, but did, that he gives a talk "I am not going to do that another year". That's the only option where I would understand his behaviour, if Alaphilippe was like "pay me regardless, even if the contract doesn't force you" behind the scenes.
Somehow I can't believe Lefevere would pay more than he needed to, ever. But okay, if that's the case, I'm walking back on my words. Otherwise - no.

 

[DNP-Old]

First of all it doesn't matter whether he hasn't met his standards because it was not deliberate in any way.

Well, you see, this is why Lefevere runs a team and we armchair managers do not. Lefevere is responsible for the QuickStep household and is expected to deliver results by his sponsors. If you keep crashing, fall ill or whatever other reason may be, said results (or lack thereof) will be affected. So yes, it absolutely does matter.

He had a talk about it with him, where his manager was present, but what on earth does he want Alaphilippe to do different? Maybe not go out anywhere anymore, to not catch Covid, okay, that's pretty much the only thing I could imagine where you could have some kind of influence, although that's very small.

What does he want him to do different? To deliver results relative to his payment. Can't ride for results if you can't ride at all. Lefevere says he understands the reasoning, Lefevere also says that said reasoning can't uphold for eternity.

He's effectively saying these crashes are Alaphilippe's fault and he expects better, otherwise - otherwise what? As far as I know contracts are contracts and you cannot just cut them down how he also implies concerning Asgreen. Like it's his good will he didn't do that.

....? No, that is not what he said, nor what he meant. Contracts are indeed contracts, and Alaphilippe receives beautiful payment every month to put QuickStep in the picture. He has not done that, and Lefevere expects him to do that because of said beautiful salary.

 

[Netserk]

Fully depends on who you ask, and, as such, there is no right or wrong. Purely a matter of personal preference, not a matter of under the bus throwing. Lefevere is very direct, just like Dutch people tend to be very direct. There is 0 wrong with that.

I don't mind being direct (that is besides the point I'm making), but it's wrong and weak to defer all agency to the interviewer. Lefevere was not forced and not obliged to give such an answer, he chose to do so. So it's on him.

 

[Jumbo Visma Fan :)]

Lefevere is being unreasonable, as almost every ride has an unlucky season. He just needs to let Alaphilippe get the results without all of this media noise.

 

[BR2]

Well, you see, this is why Lefevere runs a team and we armchair managers do not. Lefevere is responsible for the QuickStep household and is expected to deliver results by his sponsors. If you keep crashing, fall ill or whatever other reason may be, said results (or lack thereof) will be affected. So yes, it absolutely does matter.



What does he want him to do different? To deliver results relative to his payment. Can't ride for results if you can't ride at all. Lefevere says he understands the reasoning, Lefevere also says that said reasoning can't uphold for eternity.



....? No, that is not what he said, nor what he meant. Contracts are indeed contracts, and Alaphilippe receives beautiful payment every month to put QuickStep in the picture. He has not done that, and Lefevere expects him to do that because of said beautiful salary.

And that's what's not "direct" but simply bs. If my employee is very sick in the hospital I don't go and tell him "we pay you well, you need to do better". So the employee jumps up and goes to do amazing work, or what?

It even makes less sense because this is a sponsor's sport. From that point of view it would be better to back one of his star employees.

 

[theyoungest]

Lefevere is an oldschool guy, from the Peter Post school of management. He's also a huge hypocrite, but that simply belongs to this management style. Anything goes, as long as it serves as some kind of motivation for his riders. He uses the media to provoke. The outside world is the enemy, and his own riders (if they don't perform) are lazy. This works for guys like Evenepoel and Alaphilippe, they thrive on that feeling of pride.

 

[DNP-Old]

And that's what's not "direct" but simply bs. If my employee is very sick in the hospital I don't go and tell him "we pay you well, you need to do better". So the employee jumps up and goes to do amazing work, or what?

Alaphilippe does not have terminal cancer. He had 153 race days over the last three years and won 7 times. Lefevere deems this to be not enough, which I find fair.

It even makes less sense because this is a sponsor's sport. From that point of view it would be better to back one of his star employees.

Pure matter of personal opinion, and if you don't mind, I'll back the manager of the winningest team in the sport.