The Rapha hater thread

[blutto]

Performance advantages yes, you're talking about a clothing company which doesn't claim "saving watts", or "you'll win your next race because... ", nothing "phony" about Rapha or the people involved with them, calling people "d-bags" that you've never met is really cool, very impressive. We get it, you don't like marketing, neither do I for the most part, but you take it too far with the name calling. May I ask, how old are you?

...so what exactly has age got to do with anything ( except perhaps as an sorry rationale upon which to base a shooting of the messenger )...from where I'm sitting the messenger has a valid concern...sure, that concern was reefed somewhat by some inflammatory language...but hey this is the CN Forums not a scholarly publication...

....and his point is pretty simple....the messenger objects to a blatant manipulation by a team of slick marketeers ( and don't try to confuse the issue by referring solely to the content...selling aerodynamic advantage is really little different than selling some heightened sense of coolosity because at their base level they are both lies and that dear sir is the problem )...and most reasonable people would take umbrage when lied to by a marketing shill...except maybe another marketing shill ( retired or otherwise )...

Cheers

blutto

 

[blutto]

Recent tweet by Michael Creed, suggesting info to put on RoadId bracelets:

http://twitter.com/#!Michael_Creed

...well that seems to buttress the OP rather nicely doesn't it...match point and game Damiano...

Cheers

blutto

 

[Hawkwood]

...well that seems to buttress the OP rather nicely doesn't it...match point and game Damiano...

Cheers

blutto

Who's Michael Creed?

 

[blutto]

Who's Michael Creed?

...from Wiki...

Martin Creed (born 1968) is an artist and musician. He won the Turner Prize in 2001 for Work No. 227: the lights going on and off, which was an empty room in which the lights went on and off.

...some call him brilliant, some call him, uh, other things....but methinks we can safely assume he swims in a world made up of Kool-Aid and he prefers the koolest Kool-Aid there is...and straight-up of course...

Cheers

blutto

 

[Hawkwood]

...from Wiki...

Martin Creed (born 1968) is an artist and musician. He won the Turner Prize in 2001 for Work No. 227: the lights going on and off, which was an empty room in which the lights went on and off.

...some call him brilliant, some call him, uh, other things....but methinks we can safely assume he swims in a world made up of Kool-Aid and he prefers the koolest Kool-Aid there is...and straight-up of course...

Cheers

blutto

So not Michael Creed the Irish Fine Gael politician then? I assume he swims in a world made up of the black stuff.

 

[SpannerBender]

I have a decent amount of Rapha gear. Why? Because it's damn good quality. And yeah, it looks good. Is it over priced? Depends on your view. I've returned a Winter Jersey post a crash because they do repairs. Came back nicely darned - and quickly.

I was after another Long Sleeve Jersey but they were removed from the website when they put out their Summer stock. I rang them up but they didn't have my colour or size on their system. One of the guys physically went and found a Jersey in the warehouse for me - on a Sunday! Then they included a nice freebie in the post for my inconvinience! It's called 'service' and we all appreciate it and we all pay extra for it in every walk of life. (Not sure what it says about their stock control though)

Am I a victim of the marketing? No, and I think some should give a little more credit to their fellow riders. Frankly, some of the Paul Smith items I wouldn't wear even if they were gifted and many of the jerseys I don't like.

When I'm out riding do I think I'm some legendary 50's rider struggling my way over the Strada? Don't we all.........at some point......just a little bit.

 

[The Gnome]

I don't really know much about Rapha or their clothing...I do know their annoying ad campaigns but I guess that is their right and angle...and while this isnt adding much, via clothing as this seems also a thread about what is good stuff to wear...I like Bioracer stuff from belgie...solid, well made and no BS...I still have a winter jacket that has gotten tons of use...it's about 15 years old now I guess and still in great shape...let alone their bibs and jerseys...bioracer makes good stuff...

 

[ggusta]

I would like to pick on Pearl Izumi for being worn by so many 'sheeple' and being such crap. Anyone here have my back?

EAT IT P.I. !!

 

[ggusta]

I have a decent amount of Rapha gear. Why? Because it's damn good quality. And yeah, it looks good. Is it over priced? Depends on your view. I've returned a Winter Jersey post a crash because they do repairs. Came back nicely darned - and quickly.

I was after another Long Sleeve Jersey but they were removed from the website when they put out their Summer stock. I rang them up but they didn't have my colour or size on their system. One of the guys physically went and found a Jersey in the warehouse for me - on a Sunday! Then they included a nice freebie in the post for my inconvinience! It's called 'service' and we all appreciate it and we all pay extra for it in every walk of life. (Not sure what it says about their stock control though)

Am I a victim of the marketing? No, and I think some should give a little more credit to their fellow riders. Frankly, some of the Paul Smith items I wouldn't wear even if they were gifted and many of the jerseys I don't like.

When I'm out riding do I think I'm some legendary 50's rider struggling my way over the Strada? Don't we all.........at some point......just a little bit.

You mean that's NOT the point?

 

[ggusta]

im not entirely clear on the basis of the hatred OP .

is it the marketing and only the marketing or is it the falseness and solely the falseness . it does have a foppishness to it in places , particularly in the paul smith ranges but then that is targetted at the leisure audience rather than roadies.

personally i like the look of much of the kit , it is somewhat overpriced but the difficulty i see is that so many other manufacturers make over-the-top styles that direct us back to the very few that are understated and functional to look at and wear for major distances.

surely for most riders the look and feel has to be a main factor in the clothing accessories ?

I think the OP is missing the point that Rapha is NOT trying to say that THEY are the ones who are responsible for the look of the era they are hearkening back to but that they love cycling and they want to take us back to whatever their vision of cycling is/was.

I love their videos that they put online for free and suppose that the money spent producing them is earned by selling kit at enormous gross margins. They also put out a fantastic quarterly magazine or is it bi-monthly now? Rouleur. And their photography on flickr is just top notch.

So these guys are ok in my book. I can't afford their stuff and frankly do not consider myself 'cyclist enough' to rock that look. I am very secure in my Fred-dom. You can't spell freedom without Fred. Performance jerseys in general. 1 Classique tourmalet jersey, 1 demarchi jersey (I have a real thing for 1 zippered rear pocket) and just a wide variety of bibs from who-knows-where. My most comfortable being verge, and a nalini winter knicker that is sweet.

If I had the dough I would try x-bionic. I get hot, unless I am cold.

 

[RDV4ROUBAIX]

...so what exactly has age got to do with anything ( except perhaps as an sorry rationale upon which to base a shooting of the messenger )...from where I'm sitting the messenger has a valid concern...sure, that concern was reefed somewhat by some inflammatory language...but hey this is the CN Forums not a scholarly publication..

Calling people that you never met "d-bags" and "phony" isn't a very valid concern. Don't have to be a scholar to figure that out.

....and his point is pretty simple....the messenger objects to a blatant manipulation by a team of slick marketeers ( and don't try to confuse the issue by referring solely to the content...selling aerodynamic advantage is really little different than selling some heightened sense of coolosity because at their base level they are both lies and that dear sir is the problem )...and most reasonable people would take umbrage when lied to by a marketing shill...except maybe another marketing shill ( retired or otherwise )...

What do you suppose they do, market Rapha like Primal Wear? C'mon dude, who you foolin'? The only "shill" going on here is hating. Anyone that starts a "haters" thread has questionable motives in the first place (more of an ego stroke than anything), when they talk about people that they've never met as the scum of the earth, not to expect some kind of reaction is ludicrous in the 1st degree. I've talked with Rapha since they started about 7 years ago, ride their gear, and ridden with their crew. If you want some insight about what these people are like read everything the "haters" write and think of the exact opposite. Then you'll get it.

 

[ultimobici]

Who are you? Rodney King? [Best wuss voice] "Can't we all just get along?" No, we cannot. RDV assures us that the people at Rapha are good guys, keeping it real, and passionate about cycling. Apparently passion only goes one way with him. It is okay for a bunch of image merchants to sell their phoney baloney to the prols because they are passionate, but god forbid if the prols should react negatively to the cynical manipulation. Apparantly that is not passion. That is hate, and we cannot have that.

Of course this same RDV promotes wheels custom built by the hands of a master. Why? In a world where all it takes is a group of advertising majors to slap a cool sounding name on chinese goods and tell people how passionate they are, what value is there in something that is built by experience? Where is the tradition? Where is the pedigree? Where is the authenticity?

Instead we are left with white collar bamboozlers telling us what we have to buy to be who we want to be. There is no authenticity there. It is just image. I am sorry to tell you this, but Andre Agassi retired years ago and long before that he abandoned his "image is everything" motto when he shaved off his remaining hair. Reality should matter.

Rapha, the J. Peterman Cycling Collection, promotes image over reality. The whole company is built on stroking the egos of well heeled schmoes by catering to their fantasies of epic endeavor. Personally, all the "epics" I have had to endure have been the result of me misjudging my fitness, the weather turning against me, mechanicals, bad planning, late starts, and a variety of other screw-ups. I have never set out on a ride with the intention of having an epic. The idea of a preplanned epic, especially when dressed head to toe in Rapha, is comical. It is like two people preplanning a one night stand. It is fake.

I guess the fakery does not bother RDV (unless it is prebuilt wheels) but there are people who dislike the implications of what the world will be like when the last companies standing consist of brand managers selling the same goods manufactured in the same factories but with different labels.

I know the guys at Rapha, having worked for them in 2005. They are about the sport first and foremost. Before working with them we had to go tot heir offices here in London to sort out stock & promotional material. Their office is in a old industrial loft unit in Kentish Town & the first thing that struck me was the bike park in the office & the big TV with cycling playing. The conversation quickly moved from stock etc to bikes & riding with the last two taking up more than half the time.

Sure they've milked the heritage of the sport they love, and they now use the far east for a fair chunk of their production. Assos is no different with their pretentious (IMO) ads & using Eastern Europe for production.

Name one company that doesn't use cheap labour & slick adverts to make a living?

Rapha also puts on events, quite often for free, in the UK at least. On 10 April they put on a Hell of the North ride around the lanes & tracks to the north of London. It was free, well signposted and when you got to the end there was a complimentary beer and a big screen to watch the finale of the race.

 

[ultimobici]

I think the OP is missing the point that Rapha is NOT trying to say that THEY are the ones who are responsible for the look of the era they are hearkening back to but that they love cycling and they want to take us back to whatever their vision of cycling is/was.

I love their videos that they put online for free and suppose that the money spent producing them is earned by selling kit at enormous gross margins. They also put out a fantastic quarterly magazine or is it bi-monthly now? Rouleur. And their photography on flickr is just top notch.

Precisely.

 

[blutto]

I know the guys at Rapha, having worked for them in 2005. They are about the sport first and foremost. Before working with them we had to go tot heir offices here in London to sort out stock & promotional material. Their office is in a old industrial loft unit in Kentish Town & the first thing that struck me was the bike park in the office & the big TV with cycling playing. The conversation quickly moved from stock etc to bikes & riding with the last two taking up more than half the time.

Sure they've milked the heritage of the sport they love, and they now use the far east for a fair chunk of their production. Assos is no different with their pretentious (IMO) ads & using Eastern Europe for production.

Name one company that doesn't use cheap labour & slick adverts to make a living?

Rapha also puts on events, quite often for free, in the UK at least. On 10 April they put on a Hell of the North ride around the lanes & tracks to the north of London. It was free, well signposted and when you got to the end there was a complimentary beer and a big screen to watch the finale of the race.

....quite often for free???....It was free???....really?....

...sorry to pi$$ on your parade but those were anything but free...at least from the point of view of the people who actually paid for it...the folks who bought Rapha stuff...

...kinda reminds me of a politician in these parts from a while ago...in his campaigns his guiding principle was: there is nothing was freer than free...by the end of his tenure he had given everything away, the problem was, it wasn't his to give...and the folks who ended up holding the bag were those folks who voted for him and they were the ones who actually gave everything away and they were left with nothing...I guess you've been as hoodwinked as the folks who voted for that guy....

...well...as least the adverts are nice...probably look real chic on your walls...and when you look up at them you can say something like...gosh those people love me, they give me things for free...and what greater love is there in this consumer society?...

Cheers

blutto

 

[ggusta]

This conversation really verges on something that I perceive as undesirable amongst many (I would say the vast majority ime) cyclists, at least the cyclists that I know and from the posts I see it appears to be common among the English speaking cycling crowd: That capitalism is evil, and since marketing/advertising is a form of capitalism, then by extension, it too is evil.

If one of you had just wandered into this forum and extolled all the virtues and nostalgia of cycling that Rapha does without seeking a cent in consideration, your thoughts would be heralded and welcomed in this forum.

However, Rapha does the same and then says, 'Join us in our love of cycling and CONSIDER purchasing our goods. If you don't like 'em, if YOU do not perceive the value to have been worth it, send it back and we'll give you your money back, no hard feelings.'

'And by the way, we are doing a lot of things to help build cycling and promote our vision with the profits we earn from the sales. Even though we don't provide a detailed accounting for some posters on cyclingnews forum nor at our events that some may se as FREE but is really surreptitiously funded by profits unwittingly chiseled out of our customers' gullible hands while we chuckle insidiously with glee at their naivete! Our products aren't for everyone. The price is high, and you won't see a lot of folks in Rapha at your club ride. Ggusta is too insecure (and cheap) to even BUY our stuff!'


Yet, to some of you, the pursuit of sales by the promotion of an image or a lifestyle or nostalgia or whatever you want to call it disgusts you. Disgusts you to the point that a thread must be started to vent your hatred. Even though the rage seems somewhat tongue in cheek, truth be told. Perhaps Rapha should just fold their tent and stop trying to peddle this image, even though many appear to enjoy their goods. Wouldn't the world be better off with just one bib and jersey from one faceless unmarketed generic manufacturer who may or not know the first thing about our needs? REALLY?

It's been said before and worth repeating, cyclists are a funny lot. Some of you take EVERYTHING very seriously. And their adamant refusal to get over themselves and see yourselves for the caricature of a blowhard that you can be at times leads to comedic moments that no one can create out of their imagination. I hope it never ends. It's just too funny and I would miss it.

and just to send some of you running for the vapors one last time....

“Don’t give that which is holy to the dogs, neither throw your pearls before the pigs, lest perhaps they trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you to pieces."

 

[LugHugger]

....quite often for free???....It was free???....really?....

...sorry to pi$$ on your parade but those were anything but free...at least from the point of view of the people who actually paid for it...the folks who bought Rapha stuff...

Yes, it was free. I've paid for some Rapha gear. And I rode that event. Any 'free' event is a promotion. At least the company thought of fronting up for 200 riders to ride a great course including a feed station and paid for their beer and the venue whilst they kicked back on a beautiful spring afternoon and watched Paris Roubaix. So far, that's been one of the best days of the year for me. Thanks again, Simon.

 

[fatsprintking]

This conversation really verges on something that I perceive as undesirable amongst many (I would say the vast majority ime) cyclists, at least the cyclists that I know and from the posts I see it appears to be common among the English speaking cycling crowd: That capitalism is evil, and since marketing/advertising is a form of capitalism, then by extension, it too is evil.

If one of you had just wandered into this forum and extolled all the virtues and nostalgia of cycling that Rapha does without seeking a cent in consideration, your thoughts would be heralded and welcomed in this forum.

However, Rapha does the same and then says, 'Join us in our love of cycling and CONSIDER purchasing our goods. If you don't like 'em, if YOU do not perceive the value to have been worth it, send it back and we'll give you your money back, no hard feelings.'

'And by the way, we are doing a lot of things to help build cycling and promote our vision with the profits we earn from the sales. Even though we don't provide a detailed accounting for some posters on cyclingnews forum nor at our events that some may se as FREE but is really surreptitiously funded by profits unwittingly chiseled out of our customers' gullible hands while we chuckle insidiously with glee at their naivete! Our products aren't for everyone. The price is high, and you won't see a lot of folks in Rapha at your club ride. Ggusta is too insecure (and cheap) to even BUY our stuff!'


Yet, to some of you, the pursuit of sales by the promotion of an image or a lifestyle or nostalgia or whatever you want to call it disgusts you. Disgusts you to the point that a thread must be started to vent your hatred. Even though the rage seems somewhat tongue in cheek, truth be told. Perhaps Rapha should just fold their tent and stop trying to peddle this image, even though many appear to enjoy their goods. Wouldn't the world be better off with just one bib and jersey from one faceless unmarketed generic manufacturer who may or not know the first thing about our needs? REALLY?

It's been said before and worth repeating, cyclists are a funny lot. Some of you take EVERYTHING very seriously. And their adamant refusal to get over themselves and see yourselves for the caricature of a blowhard that you can be at times leads to comedic moments that no one can create out of their imagination. I hope it never ends. It's just too funny and I would miss it.

and just to send some of you running for the vapors one last time....

“Don’t give that which is holy to the dogs, neither throw your pearls before the pigs, lest perhaps they trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you to pieces."

Great to see you are not taking things too seriously and that you have it all sussed out.

What is ****ting me a little about this thread is the fact that people dont seem to be able to accept that a marketing strategy has the ability to both win people over and alienate some people. What this thread demonstrates is that there is a mix in the peolpe that frequent this forum.

If the majority of cyclists as you say are anti capitalist, then there is a chance that Rapha have their strategy wrong - but only their bottom line will tell that.

While articulated a little harshly, is the original posters sentiment, that the marketing of Rapha actually turns him off rather than win him over anything other than a statement of fact. Other posters have disagreed which shows that there are plenty of people that support the company's approach and products.

Maybe posing the question - "What do you think of Rapha's promotional strategy?" would have led to a more civil discussion with less angst. Certainly when things degenerate into the personal we are going to have problems.

Me - I dont go for Rapha's strategy, but I can see that there are people who do. Their products seem to be good quality and no one has said they are disappointed with them from this point of view. I personally choose to wear other gear which works for me. Wear whatever you want and as long as you are happy good luck to you.

 

[pedaling squares]

Help me figure this out, fellow CN members. I like to be ethical, and I would really like to be 'cool'. So is it now cool, and the ethical choice, not to support companies who use a portion of their profits to host free sporting events for the enjoyment of their clients? Because if that's the case I'll stay well away from Rapha.

 

[ggusta]

Great to see you are not taking things too seriously and that you have it all sussed out.

What is ****ting me a little about this thread is the fact that people dont seem to be able to accept that a marketing strategy has the ability to both win people over and alienate some people. What this thread demonstrates is that there is a mix in the peolpe that frequent this forum.

If the majority of cyclists as you say are anti capitalist, then there is a chance that Rapha have their strategy wrong - but only their bottom line will tell that.

While articulated a little harshly, is the original posters sentiment, that the marketing of Rapha actually turns him off rather than win him over anything other than a statement of fact. Other posters have disagreed which shows that there are plenty of people that support the company's approach and products.

Maybe posing the question - "What do you think of Rapha's promotional strategy?" would have led to a more civil discussion with less angst. Certainly when things degenerate into the personal we are going to have problems.

Me - I dont go for Rapha's strategy, but I can see that there are people who do. Their products seem to be good quality and no one has said they are disappointed with them from this point of view. I personally choose to wear other gear which works for me. Wear whatever you want and as long as you are happy good luck to you.

The humor that abounds on the forum is one of the things that keeps me coming back to this forum. Sorry if my own humor lacked in that last post. I think if you read a few more, taking myself too seriously is not something I am too concerned about. But thank you for looking out for me.

Seriously. People's sporting apparel factory number 59. 1 bib, 1 jersey. the rest is all hype.

 

[Wallace]

Sure they've milked the heritage of the sport they love, and they now use the far east for a fair chunk of their production. Assos is no different with their pretentious (IMO) ads & using Eastern Europe for production.

Is she from Eastern Europe?

 

[ggusta]

Help me figure this out, fellow CN members. I like to be ethical, and I would really like to be 'cool'. So is it now cool, and the ethical choice, not to support companies who use a portion of their profits to host free sporting events for the enjoyment of their clients? Because if that's the case I'll stay well away from Rapha.

You really need to be careful or your hard earned cash could be used to promote disgusting exploitative projects such as these:

http://www.rapha.cc/usa-pro-cycling...11-_-textlink-_-pro-cycling-challenge-stage-6

Clearly this needs to be stopped.

 

[blutto]

You really need to be careful or your hard earned cash could be used to promote disgusting exploitative projects such as these:

http://www.rapha.cc/usa-pro-cycling...11-_-textlink-_-pro-cycling-challenge-stage-6

Clearly this needs to be stopped.

...don't want to beat a dead horse here but unless Rapha as a business operates in some fairy tale land that has outlawed accountants that yes someone's hard earned cash is being used to pay for this free event, its just a question of who is paying the bill ( and are they aware they are footing the bill and are willing to do so )...

...along those lines it would be very tres chic-lee koo-el to have one of these free tours go around the area where the Rapha stuff is actually made...and as part of the festivities the participants can personally thank the gnomes who are so nice to make this wonderful stuff...

...as an aside, I am a partner in a company that makes high end stuff for a very high end market...when we started, we had the choice of selling the product on its merits, or as my partner so correctly pointed out, tickets to heaven....put in that way, it was a no-brainer, we took the high road and left the shovelling of the bull$hit to our competitors...

...so if you want to continue to believe in fairy dust and wonderful folks who are pushing the there is nothing freer than free line, that is really your problem....I sleep well at night and hope you do too...and by the way we don't have gnomes build our stuff, we have real folks paid good wages, which is another reason I sleep well at night, and why, incidently, we can't give stuff away for free...and if you still have trouble figuring this stuff out, go talk to an accountant, and he/she will explain the concept of free and how it applies to a ongoing business concern..

Cheers

blutto

 

[Race Radio]

Rapha is putting on their Gentlemen's race today. What's not to like about beer and dirt roads?

 

[LugHugger]

Rapha is putting on their Gentlemen's race today. What's not to like about beer and dirt roads?

Was it free? Dang, that means I helped pay for it. Where was my invite?

 

[LugHugger]

...don't want to beat a dead horse here but unless Rapha as a business operates in some fairy tale land that has outlawed accountants that yes someone's hard earned cash is being used to pay for this free event, its just a question of who is paying the bill ( and are they aware they are footing the bill and are willing to do so )...

...along those lines it would be very tres chic-lee koo-el to have one of these free tours go around the area where the Rapha stuff is actually made...and as part of the festivities the participants can personally thank the gnomes who are so nice to make this wonderful stuff...

...as an aside, I am a partner in a company that makes high end stuff for a very high end market...when we started, we had the choice of selling the product on its merits, or as my partner so correctly pointed out, tickets to heaven....put in that way, it was a no-brainer, we took the high road and left the shovelling of the bull$hit to our competitors...

...so if you want to continue to believe in fairy dust and wonderful folks who are pushing the there is nothing freer than free line, that is really your problem....I sleep well at night and hope you do too...and by the way we don't have gnomes build our stuff, we have real folks paid good wages, which is another reason I sleep well at night, and why, incidently, we can't give stuff away for free...and if you still have trouble figuring this stuff out, go talk to an accountant, and he/she will explain the concept of free and how it applies to a ongoing business concern..

Cheers

blutto

If you want to pocket all of your profit, that's your perogative. You earned them. I'm just happy that the guys at Rapha choose to give a little back.