The real Tennis thread.

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Re:

sniper said:
The way Murray plays the game, was tennis ever meant to be played like that?
I'm talking about the screaming and fist pumping.
It's such bad sportsmanship and it's accentuated when he plays an elegant guy like Gasquet.
From the days I played tennis, that kind of behavior was really a no-go.
And that's not that long ago.
Guys like Nadal and Murray go to show: who cares *how* you win, as long as you win.
It's one reason why I've gradually lost interest in the game.
The women's game, same story, with players like Sharapowa and Williams.
I agree totally with your list of those who make tennis unwatchable.
 
I forced myself to watch a bit of the Williams-Bertens semi-final. Painful watching Williams lumber/shuffle around the court between points looking like she would rather be anywhere else. I was so hoping she would lose so she could find some relief.
 
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Re:

frenchfry said:
I forced myself to watch a bit of the Williams-Bertens semi-final. Painful watching Williams lumber/shuffle around the court between points looking like she would rather be anywhere else. I was so hoping she would lose so she could find some relief.
thanks for helping me out.
I was thinking of a way to put the exact same sentiments into words.
not pretty to watch (to use an understatement).
 
Murray Wawrinka was a fantastic match today. Djokovic and Murray will be the 2nd pair to have played each other in all slam finals (the other pair being Djokovic and Nadal). Really looking forward to that match
 
Re:

Red Rick said:
Sadly Mugu isn't exactly a delight to listen to either, but I'm really glad she won today
Have you seen the video of Robert Halle making fun of his opponent's grunt (it was Gonzalo L something, Chilean I think) after he got annoyed with it? Brilliant. Sadly he got deducted a point.

They ought to make grunting/screaming (*ahem* Sharapova *ahem*) over a certain amount of decibels illegal.
 
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Re: Re:

Brullnux said:
Red Rick said:
Sadly Mugu isn't exactly a delight to listen to either, but I'm really glad she won today
Have you seen the video of Robert Halle making fun of his opponent's grunt (it was Gonzalo L something, Chilean I think) after he got annoyed with it? Brilliant. Sadly he got deducted a point.
totally.

the dumb grunting has become a point of shared recognition, a running gag, a sad symbol of modern day tennis.

i seem to remember the rule you propose was at some point discussed seriously within the itf, but it hasn't materialized (yet), the obvious problem being that some of the top-dogs are also the hardest grunters.
 
Re: Re:

Brullnux said:
Red Rick said:
Sadly Mugu isn't exactly a delight to listen to either, but I'm really glad she won today
Have you seen the video of Robert Halle making fun of his opponent's grunt (it was Gonzalo L something, Chilean I think) after he got annoyed with it? Brilliant. Sadly he got deducted a point.

They ought to make grunting/screaming (*ahem* Sharapova *ahem*) over a certain amount of decibels illegal.
It was Robin Haase. Haase is notorious for being a mental headcase and always blaming everything on external circumstances. He shouldn't have done this, but he's totally right. I've seen way better meltdowns though
 
Re: Re:

sniper said:
Brullnux said:
Red Rick said:
Sadly Mugu isn't exactly a delight to listen to either, but I'm really glad she won today
Have you seen the video of Robert Halle making fun of his opponent's grunt (it was Gonzalo L something, Chilean I think) after he got annoyed with it? Brilliant. Sadly he got deducted a point.
totally.

the dumb grunting has become a point of shared recognition, a running gag, a sad symbol of modern day tennis.

i seem to remember the rule you propose was at some point discussed seriously within the itf, but it hasn't materialized (yet), the obvious problem being that some of the top-dogs are also the hardest grunters.

There were gonna propoze that I think, then Azarenka maybe a few other people started whining so pathetically that I don't know what happened to that rule afterward
 
Re:

Red Rick said:
Sadly Mugu isn't exactly a delight to listen to either, but I'm really glad she won today

It's true but I remember Monica Seles was warned about it late in her career and was able to tone it down and in some matches almost made no noise. It was always Sharpova's contention that she started it as a child and could never stop it now which I think is BS. I found it impossible to watch a match between Sharapova and Azarenka. They don't even grunt. Sharapova actually screams on some points and Azarenka sounds like she is making love. Some of the men are also bad. Five sets of Nadal grunting is too much for me.
 
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go to youtue and type :
robin haase gonzalo

u get the scene referred to above. Incredible grunting from this gonzalo guy. wicked.
empire makes a ridiculous decision, imo.
 
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Muguruza has the weaponry to dominate the game for some years.

It's impressive to see her play, but I have a dislike for her awfully pitched grunting and small manerisms like patting herself on the thigh like Graff used to do.

It's clear though that all this fistpumping, grunting and hyperactivism is going to be part of the pro-game (men and women).

I doubt we'll see another Henin or Hingis or Federer rise to the very top of the game.
 
Muguruza is very streaky though, but you don't need to be very consistent in the current women's game to win a bunch of slams. The game has shifted a lot due to changes in court speed, and it's had the opposite effect on the men's and the women's game. The men's game has shifted toward to the great defenders and baseliners, who run down so much and make you commit so many errors to hit a winner, whereas the women's game has shifted towards brainless ball bashing. The more fragile quick and crafty women simply can't hit through a slow court, they can't generate enough pace so they get completely wrecked. I really think they need to speed up the courts some more again.

Watching the women's double final right now. Vesnina's grunt is sooo annoying. Hu-aaiiaaa.
 
Re:

Brullnux said:
Yeah. Truly complete player. If he manages the Golden Slam this year we'll have to bow down to him

With Federer past his best and Nadal struggling with injuries if he is ever going to do it this could be the year. Murray does not seem to be able to close the gap and Wawrinka and the others are hardly consistent. I'm also surprised that Williams has never done it.
 
Re:

Red Rick said:
Not near GOAT imo. Would mention weak era, but not really worth discussing here. IMO Fed is still far away the GOAT, and I used to hate Fed for a long time.
Weak era? Lets not rewrite history here. Federer may be past his best now and Nadal injured but Djokovic has been at the top for almost a decade and he went against them and beat them many times. In 2011 he was facing a prime Nadal and Federer and toyed with them. He's taken his game up a level since. Either way, neither Nadal nor Federer, nor anyone else in the modern era has held all 4 at the same time. He's not that far off Fed's Gs record anyway, but the acheivement of having all 4 at the same time puts him over imo.
 
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But isn't placing djoker over federer a bit like placing borg over mcenroe, or lendl over edberg?
Sheer physicality/fitness over sheer class?
Also, Agassi won all four, yet does that place him above Sampras in terms of GOAT-ness?
Also have to consider some difficulties when comparing different eras in terms of results.
E.g. Borg never travelled to Australia, iirc. And conditions (quality of surface and balls) was different, didn't allow so much for all-round dominators. (I'm cutting corners here, it's more complex than that of course)

That said, yes, Djoker is very complete and he deserves recognition as one of the GOATs, probably.

I wondered about the first set. It looked as if Murray was getting the better of Djoker mentally. Djoker seemed nervous and irritated. Weird shifts in momentum, also. Djoker with a spectacular first game, then couldn;t convert his breakpoints, and suddenly Murray walks away with that set.
Why Murray couldn't keep up his first-set level is anybody's guess.
 
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I really wanted Murray to win and am no fan of Djokovic, but no one has ever played better tennis than the best version of him. Not prime Federer, not even prime Nadal. And in terms of results, his completion of the career slam now puts him above Nadal as well, despite not having won as many yet. Here are his GS results since 2011 from Wikipedia:

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Absurdly dominant. He has already surpassed Federer in level of play, he doesn't need much more if anything to surpass him in accomplishments imo. It's not just about the major count.