Teams & Riders The Red Bull - Bora - Hansgrohe team thread

[Remy55]

i would be surprised if palzer's contract gets extended after 2022, he just not good seriously

He finished the Vuelta in his first year.
Additionally he brings a lot of media attention and even more important he brings the connection to RedBull.

 

[AlfaLum]

Yeah let's see what will happen in the end. They will for sure have 10 guys ready for the Giro until a few weeks before the start. The risk of loosing someone relatively last minute (covid) is huge at the moment. So I would guess that they don't bring all those Mountain domestiques, but Earns1985 is right that they are missing quality riders who can be a great support in the mountains, hilly parcours and in hectic flat stages. If it where up to me I would bring Haller & Pöstlberger as best options for this role, but of course I'm not a DS.

Overall I think the development of Bora will be pretty interesting this year. It could end in a total dumpster fire. Their Ardennes Team (as per PCS) is also kinda crazy: Konrad, Schelling, Schachmann, Vlasov, Higuita....I'm not sure if that can be a success, seems to be a lot of riders looking for their own result. It's like with the GTs. If they don't try a lot before the better teams control the race, they will get beaten. They have a lot of guys who can get Top 10, but winning big races...I can't see it right now.

Well Fleche Wallone and Liege are rather straightforward races. If you have one or two domestiques who can get your captains and semi captains to the Mur de Huy/Roche Aux Faucons then you can see which of your captains has the best day from that point forward.

So in that sense I do not think Bora has to make such tough decisions in those races for now. Also I think Schelling will probably get a free role in Brabantse Pijl and Amstel but for now will surely not get the same as Schachmann in the proper Ardennes. Vlasov is kinda unproven in the Ardennes as well, so I can see him being fine with a more domestique like role as well should it be necessary, if only to get something in return at the Tour. Konrad has put in some top-10s in Fleche, but other than that lacks a bit for the Ardennes as well.

So I wouldn't be surprised if Schachmann is their number 1 for the Ardennes with Higuita getting a free role and Schelling possibly for AGR/BP depending on his form before then.

 

[Mayomaniac]

He finished the Vuelta in his first year.
Additionally he brings a lot of media attention and even more important he brings the connection to RedBull.

As long as he doesn't bring a certain RedBull doctor...

 

[geisterhome]

i would be surprised if palzer's contract gets extended after 2022, he just not good seriously

Too early to draw conclusions with him, after 2022 we will know more.

As a pure climber/clmbing domestique he is facing A LOT of competition at Bora right now though:

Aleotti, Fabbro, Zwiehoff, Kämna, Buchmann, Großschartner, Higuita, Hindley, Konrad, Schachmann, Vlasov, Kledermann

All of them are better at what Palzer does best and many of them can have other qualities as well.

 

[Faserr]

Palzer did his first bike race at the end of april and finished the Vuelta 4 months later. I think that's quite good. He is bit marketing for Bora-Hansgrohe, too. This year he has to show that he can be really useful for the team. In the last season he did some work for the team in the races before the vuelta.

 

[Salvarani]

Good day for Bora with two stage-wins! Kämna and Higuita! Bennett 2nd in the first stage in the UAE Tour.

Vlasov won Valenciana a couple of weeks ago.

Decent start to the season and Schachmann has not raced yet.

 

[Filippo_3467]

Good day for Bora with two stage-wins! Kämna and Higuita! Bennett 2nd in the first stage in the UAE Tour.

Vlasov won Valenciana a couple of weeks ago.

Decent start to the season and Schachmann has not raced yet.

The team really needed that imo. They wanted to start the season strong and beside Vlasov that didn't really worked. Kämna is for sure a bright spot in the early season. I'm also keen on seeing Hindley compete in UAE. He was very strong in the spanish sterrato race.

So a good start in general for the new gc guys. Bora was criticized a lot for bringing in a lot of mediocre gc threats. It will be interesting to see if they can build on that early success.

 

[Earns1985]

Well in the current situation it doesn't seem to be the best marketing for the only German World Tour team to support a Russian rider as GC leader for the Tour de France. If the situation doesn't change, I think Bora will have to revise its plans. Of course it's not Vlasov's fault, but it´s a difficult situation..

 

[AlfaLum]

Vlasov is a guy born in Russia quite close to the border with Finland. He is capable of communicating perfectly in many languages such as Italian and English and I think he was going to learn German. He has lived in Europe for many years.

In my opinion the worst thing that can happen is when we start to exclude these type of Russians from our community. The Russians who had access to other cultures, the Russians who are capable of speaking different languages, those are the Russians that can be a long term solution to really bridge the gap between “West” and “East”.

It would be terrible to push all those Russians that have nothing to do with this war back into Putins arms just because of the place they were born.

 

[Blanco]

Well in the current situation it doesn't seem to be the best marketing for the only German World Tour team to support a Russian rider as GC leader for the Tour de France. If the situation doesn't change, I think Bora will have to revise its plans. Of course it's not Vlasov's fault, but it´s a difficult situation..

Yeah in this current situation, in this current World, you're right. In some other world, more normal, that would be totally insane. I mean, what the hell Alexander Vlasov has to do with anything?! How is he responsible for anything that his president/goverment/country did or do?!!!
Sport should be just sport! No more, no less...

 

[Blanco]

Vlasov is a guy born in Russia quite close to the border with Finland. He is capable of communicating perfectly in many languages such as Italian and English and I think he was going to learn German. He has lived in Europe for many years.

In my opinion the worst thing that can happen is when we start to exclude these type of Russians from our community. The Russians who had access to other cultures, the Russians who are capable of speaking different languages, those are the Russians that can be a long term solution to really bridge the gap between “West” and “East”.

It would be terrible to push all those Russians that have nothing to do with this war back into Putins arms just because of the place they were born.

And if he was born in Vladivostok and doesn't speak any foreign language, then it is totally ok to exclude him, right?!

 

[Ricco']

Not directly related to this thread, but since we're talking about it, if eventually there is a ban on russian athletes, it can also affect Sivakov? I think he also has french nationality and some years ago there was the talk of him changing for a french license, can he do it quickly without any problems?

 

[AlfaLum]

And if he was born in Vladivostok and doesn't speak any foreign language, then it is totally ok to exclude him, right?!

No. And that is quite obviously very much beside the point that I am trying to make. Which is that besides that it is very stupid to exclude anyone because of their nationality, it is even more stupid to exclude those people that might have an influence on creating a better environment for everybody in the future.

 

[Netserk]

I really don't think Russians on non-Russian team will be sanctioned in any way, and as long as they don't say some stupid *** that can be interpreted as support for the war, I don't think this will affect how their teams will treat them. Only the national team and Rusvelo are in danger.

 

[Roku]

This overreaction needs to stop. Russian athletes or even teams have nothing to do with the war.

 

[Ricco']

This overreaction needs to stop. Russian athletes or even teams have nothing to do with the war.

It depends on where the money that finances the teams comes from and what them promotes.

Regarding Gazprom, apart from being a state company financing the team, it was also created as a part of the Russian Global Cycling Project, together with Katusha, Itera (backed by Mr. Makarov) and with substantial support from the Kremlin, with the original aims of having a russian Tour winner.

Katusha boss: ‘Putin wants Russian Tour winner’

The image of a dozen riders trying to stay warm before a chilly training ride Thursday along Spain’s Mediterranean Coast doesn’t quite match up with the ambitious plans Katusha has laid out for 2009 and beyond. The ultimate goal of the Russian-backed Katusha team is nothing less than to deliver...

www.velonews.com

"
Last summer, officials announced a bold plan to create a new Russian super-team dubbed the Russian Global Cycling Project, with an operating budget of an eye-popping 30 million euros per year.
“This is a political project,” Feltrin explained. “Russia decided it was time to have a ProTour team and a ProTour event (Sonchi Tour). They want that one of the best teams be a Russian team.”
That sum caused a stir among many in the cash-hungry peloton, but not all of those rubles are going toward the team.
At least half of that amount will be spent to create a national cycling academy, promote the national federation and produce the Sonchi Tour bike race (penciled in to debut in May, but no official date has yet been set).
"

"
Sponsors include Itera, Gazprom, Rostehnologii and strong support from Russian politicians, including Putin.
“Putin has signed off on the project,” Feltrin said. “He stays informed in what’s happening with the team.”
"

 

[Roku]

I know it's not an easy decision, but not every Russian is a demon, like not every german in the 1940s was a demon.

Plenty of russians are against this war. There have been public demonstrations and messages sent by players and athletes against the invasion.

Western countries, governments and bodies need to set an example, and the right example is not condemning every russian due to their nationality. This way we are only fueling Putin empire of lies and his despicable message of hate,

 

[Earns1985]

Vlasov is a guy born in Russia quite close to the border with Finland. He is capable of communicating perfectly in many languages such as Italian and English and I think he was going to learn German. He has lived in Europe for many years.

In my opinion the worst thing that can happen is when we start to exclude these type of Russians from our community. The Russians who had access to other cultures, the Russians who are capable of speaking different languages, those are the Russians that can be a long term solution to really bridge the gap between “West” and “East”.

It would be terrible to push all those Russians that have nothing to do with this war back into Putins arms just because of the place they were born.

Generally I agree with all of you. I also personally like Vlasov and of course he has nothing to do with what happens in the Ukraine. I also don´t think that Russian athletes of non russian teams will get sanctionated.

The thing is, that the Tour de France is in Germany more or less the only cycling race that gets a lot of media attention. There is only one german team in the field, which gets the most media attention (Bora-Hansgrohe). If the Tour de France would start tomorrow and Bora would start with Vlasov as a leader, I think the team would get a lot of critism for that. Good thing is, that the Tour de France doesn´t start tomorrow and perhaps the situation will calm down until the start of the tour. But if it would start tomorrow, this would be a problem in my eyes..

 

[PeterB]

... what happens in the Ukraine. ...

Slightly off-topic, but this could be a good opportunity to remind ourselves that we should not be using definite article in front of "Ukraine". Interesting reading on the topic over here: https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-18233844

 

[Netserk]

Slightly off-topic, but this could be a good opportunity to remind ourselves that we should not be using definite article in front of "Ukraine". Interesting reading on the topic over here: https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-18233844

In Danish some countries are in the definite form (Turkey, Mongolia, see: https://sproget.dk/raad-og-regler/a...rogklumme/23-april-2008/endonymi-og-eksonymi/), but not Ukraine. Most Danish exonyms are from German, but they are slowly falling out of favour for endonyms (or getting anglicised/internationalised, so now it's Egypten instead of Ægypten).

 

[Mayomaniac]

In Danish some countries are in the definite form (Turkey, Mongolia, see: https://sproget.dk/raad-og-regler/a...rogklumme/23-april-2008/endonymi-og-eksonymi/), but not Ukraine. Most Danish exonyms are from German, but they are slowly falling out of favour for endonyms (or getting anglicised/internationalised, so now it's Egypten instead of Ægypten).

Often the German ones seem to be closer to the actual name than the English one.

 

[Netserk]

Often the German ones seem to be closer to the actual name than the English one.

Except for Belarus (until recently when Germany too switched from exonym to endonym).

 

[Sciatic]

I know it's not an easy decision, but not every Russian is a demon, like not every german in the 1940s was a demon.

Plenty of russians are against this war. There have been public demonstrations and messages sent by players and athletes against the invasion.

Western countries, governments and bodies need to set an example, and the right example is not condemning every russian due to their nationality. This way we are only fueling Putin empire of lies and his despicable message of hate,

I think this is a smart way to think about this, in terms of long term relationships between countries. However, it seems to me that folks are talking about the sanctions as though this was something like another major drug or corruption case. I don’t think there is a recent equivalent for this situation. Essentially, the EU and the U.S. are fighting a war by proxy. Maybe not quite fully engaged in it yet but it is heading there. Warfare produces casualties including, unfortunately, among peaceful non-combatants. That could include sports teams. It’s only a week into this so it’s still hard to read how this will look in July. My main point is just that there is no recent point of reference for what’s happening now—wars in Iraq or Kosovo are not the same as a war among major powers with linked economies.

 

[Skijumper Roglic fan]

Uijtdebroeks is super good in Coppi&Bartali at the moment. He‘s in his first year of U23, actually.

He‘s had a great start to 2022. Very impressive. He needed zero time to get used to Elite men/Professional/World Tour cycling.

He‘s so strong already, he can win his first 1.1 and/or 2.1 race this year…

 

[Anderis]

I would say BORA's criticised transfer policy has not worked out too bad thus far.