Teams & Riders The Red Bull - Bora - Hansgrohe team thread

[CyclistAbi]

I don’t know, like someone else also said, do they really need such a team? Roglic/Lipo just need to follow, their team isn’t as important in the mountains compared to Visma/UAE.

Of course it is important, their main job will be mitigation and keeping Rogla fresh and healthy deep into the race. That involves a lot of satellite riders and hence around 5 team members need to be great climbers. I would take 8 best, but then you don't have anybody to bring you back on the flat and one of the mountain goats would need to be good in the bunch, so that would likely be a bit too risky. So i expect at minimum 5 great climbers in the Tour team.

 

[Berniece]

Of course it is important, their main job will be mitigation and keeping Rogla fresh and healthy deep into the race. That involves a lot of satellite riders and hence around 5 team members need to be great climbers. I would take 8 best, but then you don't have anybody to bring you back on the flat and one of the mountain goats would need to be good in the bunch, so that would likely be a bit too risky. So i expect at minimum 5 great climbers in the Tour team.

Does it though? You don’t need that many people to keep Roglic fresh

 

[CyclistAbi]

Does it though? You don’t need that many people to keep Roglic fresh

Of course you do, haven't you watched cycling lately. Once the aliens go and they go often and early. If you don't have a satellite rider ahead the ones by your side don't play any role whatsoever.

 

[Berniece]

Of course you do, haven't you watched cycling lately. Once the aliens go and they go often and early. If you don't have a satellite rider ahead the ones by your side don't play any role whatsoever.

Have you watched TDF last year? When did Roglic use his team? Never because when those two go, the whole peloton explodes and Roglic himself also goes. He doesn’t wait for his teammates because then Evenepoel would be gone and not seen again.

 

[Tim Cahill]

Would say Meeus has a better chance of a stage than Roglic, why not hedge your bets a bit, Roglic deserves a rider or two to help based on his past but why put all eggs in one basket when a DNF is more likely than a podium.

 

[CyclistAbi]

Have you watched TDF last year? When did Roglic use his team?

Exactly, that is what i said and hence what team? Nobody, outside top contenders survives the acceleration.

Never because when those two go, the whole peloton explodes and Roglic himself also goes. He doesn’t wait for his teammates because then Evenepoel would be gone and not seen again.

That indeed is on why it will be important for a team member to wait Rogla and on why bringing six sprinters won't help here.

 

[CyclistAbi]

Would say Meeus has a better chance of a stage than Roglic, why not hedge your bets a bit, Roglic deserves a rider or two to help based on his past but why put all eggs in one basket when a DNF is more likely than a podium.

The thing is they like omelette, wouldn't have it any other way.

 

[Berniece]

Exactly, that is what i said and hence what team? Nobody, outside top contenders survives the acceleration.



That indeed is on why it will be important for a team member to wait Rogla and on why bringing six sprinters won't help here.

Okay, good luck with that tactic. You’ll see that Bora won’t do that at all.

 

[CyclistAbi]

Okay, good luck with that tactic. You’ll see that Bora won’t do that at all.

My confidence in the team is rising hence indeed lets wait and see.

 

[Faserr]

Red Bull won't risk to ride only for GC again after what happened to Roglic at the TDF last year and the Giro this year.
I think they have a bit pressure from the sponsors to ride in an attractive way this year at the TDF.
Thats why I think they will go for riders like Meeus, van Gils and Pithie.

 

[CyclistAbi]

@Faserr

Riding like a sort of social media kind of a team, one could say influencers? The ideas.

So current betting odds or better predictions. Anywhere in between the team will bring 6 sprinters plus Rogla and Lipo. Here it becomes a bit moot as Rogla being a semi sprinter we could say Lipo plus 7 sprinters, on where Lipo to work for one of the sprinters? Just imagine the German media when hit with such news. To the other spectre on where the team will bring at least 5 quality climbers and will take on satellite riding seriously, from time to time Rogla to send someone ahead, with severely misplaced tempo, just to mess with UAE and Visma, preferably not on the ultimate climbs and preferably when Almeida is signalling for the next rider in line to take on the duty. We'll see.

 

[yaco]

Of course it is important, their main job will be mitigation and keeping Rogla fresh and healthy deep into the race. That involves a lot of satellite riders and hence around 5 team members need to be great climbers. I would take 8 best, but then you don't have anybody to bring you back on the flat and one of the mountain goats would need to be good in the bunch, so that would likely be a bit too risky. So i expect at minimum 5 great climbers in the Tour team.

Piffle. Its the rouleurs who keep the GC leaders fresh and protected before the mountains. Roglic only needs two climbers ( one will be Lipowitz) for the TDF. S.Yates won the Giro with a similar team.

 

[Rackham]

Red Bull won't risk to ride only for GC again after what happened to Roglic at the TDF last year and the Giro this year.
I think they have a bit pressure from the sponsors to ride in an attractive way this year at the TDF.
Thats why I think they will go for riders like Meeus, van Gils and Pithie.

Pithie has been terrible all year.

And that's the main issue with all these scenarios, i.e. every rider not called Rog or Lipo is just not particularly great.

 

[QueenStagiaire]

Pithie has been terrible all year.

And that's the main issue with all these scenarios, i.e. every rider not called Rog or Lipo is just not particularly great.

Pithie was good in Dauphiné, doesn‘t really matter if he was bad before

 

[CyclistAbi]

Piffle. Its the rouleurs who keep the GC leaders fresh and protected before the mountains. Roglic only needs two climbers ( one will be Lipowitz) for the TDF. S.Yates won the Giro with a similar team.

I don't feel Red Bull - Bora - Hansgrohe will play a big role, if any, on terrain before the mountains, so indeed around two should do. As for quality climbers, around five will be needed. Yates had a satellite rider waiting, over Finestre.

 

[Faserr]

I think they just don't want to ride like in the Tour last year and at the Giro until week 3. To be honest there was some time for them to show strength after the Roglic crash in 2024 at the Tour but they were all bad.

 

[Links2003]

Red Bull won't risk to ride only for GC again after what happened to Roglic at the TDF last year and the Giro this year.
I think they have a bit pressure from the sponsors to ride in an attractive way this year at the TDF.
Thats why I think they will go for riders like Meeus, van Gils and Pithie.

I see it similarly. As the year hasn't gone particularly well so far, you have to and want to show something at the Tour.
You have to make a fundamental decision. Do you want to ride offensively and attractively or do you want to bet everything on the overall classification? But then the goal has to be overall victory. You don't have to put all your eggs in one basket for 3rd place.

Is there a chance of beating Tadey and Jonas? If everything goes normally, it will be super difficult.
The Giro showed once again with Yates' victory and how Visma rode: If you're not the favorite to win and don't expect to be in the lead a lot or generally take on a lot of responsibility: Then you don't need a team fully focused on the captain. You can also achieve a top result without a team being there for just one rider.

It also takes some of the pressure off the captain: when 7 riders are riding for Roglic, the pressure is immense.
That's why it's much better to ride on multiple tracks. Especially at the beginning there are a lot of sprint stages.

So in addition to Van Poppel, also take Meeus with you to get good results in the sprints. Van Gils for the harder stages. Roglic, Lipowitz and Vlasov for the mountains. Tratnik as a helper on the flats. And then there's a place for Martinez if he does get in shape, or a rider like Sobrero who is in reasonable form at the Tour de Suisse.
This spreads the chances and distributes the pressure. And yet a lot is possible. However, you then have to consider whether you shouldn't rely fully on Roglic. With so few helpers on the mountain, you can't let two riders ride as they please. But I would take the risk.

 

[CyclistAbi]

@Faserr

Tour 2024 was always more of a learning experience and the team even admitted that some mistakes were made in term of preparation, Vuelta 2024 and Giro 2025 were already approached much better. As for Giro 2025 to end with GC leader DNF, that IMHO doesn't play any major role in terms of the bigger picture.

@Links2003

Even if they would do as you suggest, basically to ride like a chick without a head, why do you feel that would please the social media and that results would be better? Somehow they would all turn into Tour stage winners? It wouldn't mostly come down to wasting time?

 

[CyclistAbi]

All in all guys, some of you seem a bit unrealistic. A bunch of youngsters won't get a free Tour holiday on where they could do whatever they want. You likely watched too many "spring break" series, or something. It will mainly be the usually and boring stuff, called work, mostly about riding for the GC. Maybe a satellite rider to find himself in an opportunity to win a stage, as for sprinting and results, very much doubt that, beyond maybe hilly finishes.

 

[Links2003]

@Faserr

Tour 2024 was always more of a learning experience and the team even admitted that some mistakes were made in term of preparation, Vuelta 2024 and Giro 2025 were already approached much better. As for Giro 2025 to end with GC leader DNF, that IMHO doesn't play any major role in terms of the bigger picture.

@Links2003

Even if they would do as you suggest, basically to ride like a chick without a head, why do you feel that would please the social media and that results would be better? Somehow they would all turn into Tour stage winners? It wouldn't mostly come down to wasting time?

I don't quite understand what you mean?
Why would the team be headless with my suggestion? Quite the opposite. I said that if you also want to take advantage of other opportunities, then you have to clearly state in the GC for whom you are riding without a plan B.
In the first week Roglic will not ride in yellow - not his terrain. Even after that it's unlikely with Pogi and Jonas. So you won't have to ride much from the front. So he doesn't need 7 helpers. Instead, you take the burden off his shoulders because you also look for opportunities on other stages when it makes sense. And if things go well, you can achieve good results, in the best case even a stage win. That brings morale to the team. Then the motivation to give everything for the captain is even higher.

Visma was the best example at the Giro: you rode for victories in sprint stages, were in a lot of groups and in the end you won the overall. And with my suggestion, RBH would even have the better mountain team than Visma at the Giro, provided Martinez gets in shape.

 

[CyclistAbi]

@Links2003

You don't take any burden of your leader if you choose not to ride for him. Morale of a Tour GC orientated AAA team is more or less bound to their leader succeeding, or not. As for Visma and Giro, circumstances like main favourites abandoning and del Toro and Carapaz riding like they did. That doesn't happen often and this is not something one can plan. On top of that at the Tour Visma won't be riding like that, maybe van Aert with a bit of freedom and that is that.

 

[Gratemans]

All in all guys, some of you seem a bit unrealistic. A bunch of youngsters won't get a free Tour holiday on where they could do whatever they want. You likely watched too many "spring break" series, or something. It will mainly be the usually and boring stuff, called work, mostly about riding for the GC. Maybe a satellite rider to find himself in an opportunity to win a stage, as for sprinting and results, very much doubt that, beyond maybe hilly finishes.

Well... sorry but as much as I like Roglic as well, you're actually the one that is very often unrealistic imo. You actually wish for the team being a full climbing train for Rogla? That's like the worst possible tactic ever.
Berniece and Yaf were on point: rouleurs are incredibly important to keep the main man out of trouble on the flats. Especially in the Tour. And when Pogacar and Vingegaard go, all bets are off anyway and its mano a mano.

Oh and for that satellite tactic of a team member waiting for Rogla? Ok, so you watched the Giro. And yeah, that worked perfectly with Van Aert and Yates. Once. And on that particular day, Yates had great legs. The timing was just right. But you certainly don't need an entire team of climbers for that. And an important sidenote: the two aliens were not at the Giro.

 

[TrekCyclist]

I am fine with the idea that Lipo and Roglic should just follow during the first 2 weeks, anf hope they will be in contention for podium. Without the team doing many extra efforts / setting the pace in the peleton etc. (like Mercatore Uno did sometimes with Pantani - you would not see him / them anywhere until the final climbs).

But when one of them is on a podium spot during week 3, it would help a lot if there is a team that is able to support / cover attacks by other contenders.

 

[Links2003]

@Links2003

You don't take any burden of your leader if you choose not to ride for him. Morale of a Tour GC orientated AAA team is more or less bound to their leader succeeding, or not. As for Visma and Giro, circumstances like main favourites abandoning and del Toro and Carapaz riding like they did. That doesn't happen often and this is not something one can plan. On top of that at the Tour Visma won't be riding like that, maybe van Aert with a bit of freedom and that is that.

If you think you're only happy as captain when everything revolves 100% around you. Okay.

I see it completely differently. And many teams seem to too.

As I tried to explain: if I have Pogi or Jonas and therefore the top favorites and therefore have to and want to control the race: yes then all hands to one deck. If I don't have a top favorite and believe that I don't have to and can't control the race with my team. Then I can line up differently. Bora will not have the best overall team at the Tour. So I distribute the load and the chances. Then 4 direct helpers will be enough for Roglic. Van Poppel and Co will also help him. Van Poppel would also come along without a sprinter. And if Roglic is doing really well in the race, you focus everything on him.

The only scenario that is not ideal with the tactics: you have to defend something from the first week on. But that's unrealistic.

Both the Giro and the Vuelta team will be with full focus in GC. That is okay. Because at the Giro you had the favorite.

 

[pablohidalgo7]

Pithie has been terrible all year.

And that's the main issue with all these scenarios, i.e. every rider not called Rog or Lipo is just not particularly great.

To be fair Pithie had several mechanicals and crashes in crucial moments of MSR, E3, DDV and PR , yes, all of them except de Ronde (he was in first big group) and GW (working hard for Meeus trying to follow Pedersen and others moves) but before all that incidents he looked not superb but in decent shape, always between the top 20-25 riders in first selections in those races, but just results were ruined and people only look at that to make conclusions.

But the important think is that he looked very good in the hill of the first stage of the Dauphine and great in the last mountain stage staying with Lipo until the finals moves. I think he could be quite useful for Primoz, and Lamberts is also training him, so seeing what he did on the last day of the Dauphiné, I trust that he will continue to progress in the mountains and recovery in the Wout style, within his capabilities, of course.