Teams & Riders The Red Bull - Bora - Hansgrohe team thread

[CyclistAbi]

Well... sorry but as much as I like Roglic as well, you're actually the one that is very often unrealistic imo. You actually wish for the team being a full climbing train for Rogla? That's like the worst possible tactic ever.

To be honest i first thought some of you are joking and just wasting some time on the internet. Up to a point i could understand that, as ATM we are mostly waiting for the Tour to start, around some perfect time for people to get ideas.

Now i see some of you are actually serious in claiming things like Red Bull - Bora - Hansgrohe should not send a GC orientated team to the Tour, even go as far as claiming on how that is the worst possible tactics ever.

Crazy stuff.

Berniece and Yaf were on point: rouleurs are incredibly important to keep the main man out of trouble on the flats. Especially in the Tour. And when Pogacar and Vingegaard go, all bets are off anyway and its mano a mano.

Oh and for that satellite tactic of a team member waiting for Rogla? Ok, so you watched the Giro. And yeah, that worked perfectly with Van Aert and Yates. Once. And on that particular day, Yates had great legs. The timing was just right. But you certainly don't need an entire team of climbers for that. And an important sidenote: the two aliens were not at the Giro.

Hence i said around two will do and they won't be sprinting but making sure the leader is safe in the bunch. As for saying satellite riders tactics is bad and the team should just accept they can't do anything at all to offer some assistance to team leader on the climbs. IMHO that is gibberish. This tactics are often used across races through and through the season.

I am fine with the idea that Lipo and Roglic should just follow during the first 2 weeks, anf hope they will be in contention for podium. Without the team doing many extra efforts / setting the pace in the peleton etc. (like Mercatore Uno did sometimes with Pantani - you would not see him / them anywhere until the final climbs).

But when one of them is on a podium spot during week 3, it would help a lot if there is a team that is able to support / cover attacks by other contenders.

Of course they will be doing that, first two weeks included. There in just no way that they will be sending a bunch of youngsters to the Tour to do whatever they want. Even if Rogla wouldn't be participating they would never ride like that.

If you think you're only happy as captain when everything revolves 100% around you. Okay.

I see it completely differently. And many teams seem to too.

As I tried to explain: if I have Pogi or Jonas and therefore the top favorites and therefore have to and want to control the race: yes then all hands to one deck. If I don't have a top favorite and believe that I don't have to and can't control the race with my team. Then I can line up differently. Bora will not have the best overall team at the Tour. So I distribute the load and the chances. Then 4 direct helpers will be enough for Roglic. Van Poppel and Co will also help him. Van Poppel would also come along without a sprinter. And if Roglic is doing really well in the race, you focus everything on him.

The only scenario that is not ideal with the tactics: you have to defend something from the first week on. But that's unrealistic.

Both the Giro and the Vuelta team will be with full focus in GC. That is okay. Because at the Giro you had the favorite.

No way, all in for GC and that comes down to around 5 good climbers, forget about stage hunting, beyond getting a chance riding as a satellite rider. And even if that would be the ultimate goal, stage hunting and not GC, chances would still be rather slim.

So now i guess best to wait for the Tour roster to be announced, we all shared our predictions and expectations and lets see on how it goes.

 

[CyclistAbi]

“He is furious” – Remco Evenepoel reportedly training angry ahead of the Tour de France

Remco Evenepoel’s performance at the 2025 Critérium du Dauphiné has raised alarm bells inside and outside his camp. Despite a brilliant time trial, he finished fourth place, over four minutes down on...

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Here is an article on what happens when a team abandons the GC leader, as some of you claimed that is a no biggie. Remember Ayuso?

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Here is an example on how even a cross team satellite riding is somewhat desired. Anyway, we had our fun now back to serious things. Assembling and announcing the Tour 2025 Red Bull - Bora - Hansgrohe roster!

 

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In Belgian press, Meeus said that he currently is only on the reserve list for the Tour, but he sees his chances at 50:50.

 

[Links2003]

No way, all in for GC and that comes down to around 5 good climbers, forget about stage hunting, beyond getting a chance riding as a satellite rider. And even if that would be the ultimate goal, stage hunting and not GC, chances would still be rather slim.

Who are your five good climbers who are currently in good form? And you want to do something with them? Ride from the front instead of Visma and UAE?

I don't think you can win against Pogi and Jonas that way. And with Lipo, Vlasov and if Martinez comes into form he has what he needs. If Martinez is not in form, there is no other mountain helper in the team anyway.

 

[CyclistAbi]

Who are your five good climbers who are currently in good form? And you want to do something with them?

There is plenty of that in the team and i am sure that most will get selected.

Ride from the front instead of Visma and UAE? I don't think you can win against Pogi and Jonas that way. And with Lipo, Vlasov and if Martinez comes into form he has what he needs. If Martinez is not in form, there is no other mountain helper in the team anyway.

C'mon we already said all this. In short, there is no real reason to ride in front of peloton, UAE and Visma are predictable in this regard to the extent you can count on them to do it, regardless. On important stages hence one or more of the team member to be strategically placed ahead of the peloton, the rest either resting on that day or taking care of properly positioning Rogla in the bunch. And that is more or less that.

 

[Rackham]

In Belgian press, Meeus said that he currently is only on the reserve list for the Tour, but he sees his chances at 50:50.

These decisions are also based on training numbers that we don't have. Say Rog is posting okay-ish but not so great numbers in Tignes, then the team will decide a certain course of action that lends towards maximizing the chance for a good result with anyone. Which in this case would mean Meeus does the TdF with a lead-out support rider in bunch sprints just for the sake of positioning.

But if Rog has his best legs then irrespective of the DNF ratio they're going to back him with more helpers, certainly to the best of their abilities. Cycling isn't a charity or 'loyalty' based, i.e. teams are quite cynical. They back the rider who has the potential to score the best result.

That's how I see, i.e. the team selection will say a lot about how Denk and the performance people (Dan Lorang) perceive Rog's form.

 

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These decisions are also based on training numbers that we don't have. Say Rog is posting okay-ish but not so great numbers in Tignes, then the team will decide a certain course of action that lends towards maximizing the chance for a good result with anyone. Which in this case would mean Meeus does the TdF with a lead-out support rider in bunch sprints just for the sake of positioning.

But if Rog has his best legs then irrespective of the DNF ratio they're going to back him with more helpers, certainly to the best of their abilities. Cycling isn't a charity or 'loyalty' based, i.e. teams are quite cynical. They back the rider who has the potential to score the best result.

I would expect van Poppel to do the Tour no matter what?! He always has, even without a sprinter.

 

[Links2003]

There is plenty of that in the team and i am sure that most will get selected.



C'mon we already said all this. In short, there is no real reason to ride in front of peloton, UAE and Visma are predictable in this regard to the extent you can count on them to do it, regardless. On important stages hence one or more of the team member to be strategically placed ahead of the peloton, the rest either resting on that day or taking care of properly positioning Rogla in the bunch. And that is more or less that.

You can repeat your plan several times. We can't come to a common denominator here. That's perfectly okay.

Which five mountain riders - that you don't name - in suitable form absolutely have to ride with and only for the captain?

Sending riders ahead sounds great. In reality, however, it often doesn't work effectively. The profile of the stage has to be right. The competitord have to allow it. The timing has to be right. And then the rider has to be good enough to be able to help in a meaningful way.

You can also use the strategy if you don't put all your eggs in one basket. The most recent example is Visma at the Giro.

Therefore, there are several approaches you can take. You only know which one was the right one afterwards. I'm in favor of spreading the risk and the pressure, because you can bring positive energy in a team and still stand up for the captain.

 

[CyclistAbi]

Guys, we indeed see it a bit differently, it seems. Still i am glad we had this discussion and some others over the forum:

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I feel it's fair, for each to expect something, on what we will get, we'll see. One in the end has to work with the cards dealt with. Personally i expect for Red Bull - Bora - Hansgrohe to send a strong roster of a GC orientated team, Rogla being the lead. It makes sense to not burn Lipo too early into the race, hence he will be mostly riding with Rogla and to do that for a while. Then i expect around 3 more quality climbers, mostly resting in the bunch or chilling in the breakaway. As for other three, two of them should be great in positioning Rogla in the bunch and keeping him at front, only on exposed sections. And lastly, the team should not bring a sprinter.

Plan A to be win the overall with Rogla, on where climbers to be used frequently as satellite riders with some potential left to win the stage, given circumstances. Hence mostly being there, at front, for mitigation. No matter what Pogi or Jonas throw at him, Rogla is the toughest rider in the peloton, knowing a team member is ahead he will bridge. On bunch sprint stages and in general for Rogla to be taken care off, he is crashed out of contention in a lot on such stages, usually by riders with lesser bike handling skills, hence the team can't afford to have a sprinter and his lead-out contesting the stage. Even Opi and Omi are dangerous in this regards, older and bad reflexes. Stay vigilant and instead they need to babysit Rogla and make sure he is well rested, feed and remains healthy.

Plan B if Rogla for whatever reason to drop out of GC contention for the overall to switch to Lipo. Plan C stage hunting with remaining strong climbers section, possibly to improvise with sprint lead-out team members contesting a sprint, here we are already stretching it a bit and IMHO!