Teams & Riders The Red Bull - Bora - Hansgrohe team thread

[Red Rick]

I don't think a team should adopt a defeatist mindset like that

Maximizing the results of the team that you have? That's not defeatist.

 

[kingjr]

Maximizing the results of the team that you have? That's not defeatist.

I took geisterhome's post to mean that Remco shouldn't even go to the Tour, I don't see how that maximizes anything.

 

[CyclistAbi]

They where rather open they want a world champion in the team. So obviously Remco would race GTs and on top of that would race classics and Co. for the team. We'll see.

 

[geisterhome]

I took geisterhome's post to mean that Remco shouldn't even go to the Tour, I don't see how that maximizes anything.

Yea idk, as long as Vingegaard and Pogacar er taking part in good form it is actually little point to bring Remco, or anyone who has the chance to win a GT as long those 2 arent there. But I would assume that RB wants to bring their fancy new toy to the big TDF no matter what.

 

[Berniece]

Yea idk, as long as Vingegaard and Pogacar er taking part in good form it is actually little point to bring Remco, or anyone who has the chance to win a GT as long those 2 arent there. But I would assume that RB wants to bring their fancy new toy to the big TDF no matter what.

I don’t understand this logic. What should all riders that aren’t those two do?

 

[CyclistAbi]

I mean Lipo is a rather clear declaration, on what RBH plans to do in seasons to come, after third, they now want more.

 

[kingjr]

I mean Lipo is a rather clear declaration, on what RBH plans to do in seasons to come, after third, they now want more.

Their chances with Lipo are even lower than with Remco.

 

[AlpRaid]

Their chances with Lipo are even lower than with Remco.

part of the issue I see is that they are similar GT riders -- good at ITT and diesels in the mountains. arguably remco will always be better at ITTs and -- if in 2022 Vuelta or tdf 2024 form, he may be a little better in the mountains. but lipo is younger and his body has not had to deal the amount of rehabilitations.

if remco can get back to himself, I would lean slightly towards him. however, I think both of them will always have a rough time competing with the more explosive climbers -- pog and vingo obviously, but also the up-and-comers: del toro, seixas, even Ayuso.

 

[Mayomaniac]

I mean, they do need another climbing superdom for Lipo and Pellizzari...

 

[TrekCyclist]

Not sure whether to put Evenepoel at the same level regarding climbing and recovery as Lipowitz tbh. Evidence might suggest differently at the moment.

 

[AlpRaid]

Not sure whether to put Evenepoel at the same level regarding climbing and recovery as Lipowitz tbh. Evidence might suggest differently at the moment.

I almost posted that as well. yes, I agree, based on this season, that could very well be the case.

 

[Berniece]

Not sure whether to put Evenepoel at the same level regarding climbing and recovery as Lipowitz tbh. Evidence might suggest differently at the moment.

Lipowitz was very impressive yesterday. The only one able to follow and even put a higher pace on Pogi/Vingegaard

 

[CyclistAbi]

Their chances with Lipo are even lower than with Remco.

Don't know if i ever seen Remco responding to aliens like Lipo did on this Tour edition, consistently through three weeks, on top of that he was at points very aggressive long into week three. It would be reasonable if he would blew up, he didn't.

 

[Unchained]

Their chances with Lipo are even lower than with Remco.

A relative Remco is irrelevant, Risky Remco kept the extent of his injuries in a small circle, he didn't put his condition in the media machine, he did have a brief moment in the TT but for the most part he rode sub par due to broken rib,
Bora proceeded with major new contact and contract restructuring. Bora and Quickstep had some very positive results with a removed Remco.
A healthy rider of his stature would, should be welcome at any program!! Any team would want him,
If he doesn't end up developing into a grand tour contender, his racing results are a net positive to any team he would sign with.. Lipowitz can only benefit from the addition of such a strong, talented teammate.. and Roglic has some positive perspective on almost everything, yes he is a grand tour winner but is capable of doing other things..

 

[kingjr]

Don't know if i ever seen Remco responding to aliens like Lipo did on this Tour edition, consistently through three weeks, on top of that he was at points very aggressive long into week three. It would be reasonable if he would blew up, he didn't.

In the mountains I see no difference to Remco last year, in TTs and basically any other type of stage, he's worse. The only reason people are into Lipo right now is because he's a new face at this level.

 

[geisterhome]

I don’t understand this logic. What should all riders that aren’t those two do?

There are many races.. focusing on winning the GT where Pogacar isn't participating like this year's Giro for example or last years Vuelta. The tour can be for the big two the next 2 or 3 years and for riders who are looking to establish themselves like Lipowitz and Onley this year.

 

[Samu Cuenca]

2 million is not a small amount. Did they remember to check Trivago?

We'll see how it works out, but every team could use someone with Remco's level.

 

[CyclistAbi]

In the mountains I see no difference to Remco last year, in TTs and basically any other type of stage, he's worse. The only reason people are into Lipo right now is because he's a new face at this level.

He was second at PN, third at Dauphiné in front of Remco and will likely finish third at the Tour, rightfully so.

 

[Ilmaestro99]

Lipo, roglic, remco, hindley who cares. The one to challenge pocagar in the mountains is Giulio pelizzari

 

[geisterhome]

In the mountains I see no difference to Remco last year, in TTs and basically any other type of stage, he's worse. The only reason people are into Lipo right now is because he's a new face at this level.

So far Lipowitz seems more consistent at his level during GTs. This is small sample size but anyways. For one or the other reason remco has a tendency to collapse. Now u say this is due to bad luck, like broken rib, sickness, crash during the winter or the race itself. This doesn't happen to the very best GT riders on a consistent basis tho.

I would say Lipowitz and Remco are pretty equal in their chances to win a GT, Lipowitz might be more consistent and Remco slightly better mostly due to his TT, when really all goes right, just that at doesn't usually.

That being said I could imagine Lipowitz becoming one of the very best TT riders in the future.

 

[Red Rick]

I mean, they do need another climbing superdom for Lipo and Pellizzari...

Climbing superdom's need to at least be able to climb . As soon as Evenepoel goes worse the only climbing he does is off his bike.

 

[VayaVayaVaya]

I’d go:

• Giro
  
  • Leader: Lipowitz
  • Co-Leader: Hindley
• Tour
  
  • Leader: Remco
  • Co-Leader: Roglic w/ no real pressure
• Vuelta
  
  • Leader: Roglic
  • Support: Pelizzari
• MSR: Remco
• RVV: Remco
• Roubaix: Forget about it
• LBL: Remco
• Il Lombardia:
  • Leader: Remco
  • Co-Leader: Roglic
• Flèche Wallone: Roglic
• Amstel Gold Race: Remco
• Suisse: Roglic

But I’m guessing they’ll send Lipowitz to the Tour again along with Remco, where they will be nowhere close to winning.

So as an alt:
Pelizzari and Roglic do Giro again
Remco and Lipowitz do Tour
Roglic does Vuelta

 

[CyclistAbi]

If i am Rogla i would do some beer tomorrow and a glass of champagne, the rest can wait.

 

[Rackham]

German-Austrian team means Lipowitz is in the driving seat. Evenepoel being Evenepoel means he brings Belgium with him which = he's right up there with Lipowitz in the pecking order. Pellizzari will get favors but he needs to avoid second season syndrome issues (a cliché in cycling but Hindley hasn't recovered from his own).

Where's Rog? If he doesn't retire then probably in his own little world where once again he needs to prove his worth with basic numbers in his legs and results.

I also doubt he'll ride the Giro again (his coach didn't like it) but anything is possible.

 

[VayaVayaVaya]

The team will also no doubt take into account that Roglic had a terrible prep for this Tour. Almost all the Giro, including multiple crashes and an illness; that is not a good way to come in. Remco clearly came in off form as well. So, yes, Lipowitz has done great, but he’s 12 minutes back. Remco was 9 last year. Lipowitz AFAIK is not putting up peak Roglic numbers. On the flip side, he is still developing. So give them all their chance; don’t make anyone a donkey.