Teams & Riders The Red Bull - Bora - Hansgrohe team thread

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Logic-is-your-friend

Logic-is-your-friend

Jun 7, 2011
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stoempestoempestoempe said:
I wonder what this will mean for Pellizzari. Everyone is focusing on Lipowitz and Evenepoel, but I assume both will get their fair share of chances as both have already podiumed the Tour. With Roglic still on board and being the possible leader for both Giro and Vuelta, Pellizzari may be the odd man out as I don't see a GT where he gets a chance to start as a (co-)leader. Evenepoel, Lipowitz and Roglic will all be ahead of him in the picking order and that's a shame since Pellizzari seems to be really talented and should be given the opportunity to fight for the GC as well.
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He's 21, he has 0 wins. They don't have to start sending him to GT's as GC leader. Neither do they have to start sending him to GT's as domestique. Plenty of opportunities to send him to GT's with a free role. Him being able to ride in the shadow of Roglic/Evenepoel/... is probably not a bad thing.
 
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Red Rick

Red Rick

Feb 20, 2012
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stoempestoempestoempe said:
I wonder what this will mean for Pellizzari. Everyone is focusing on Lipowitz and Evenepoel, but I assume both will get their fair share of chances as both have already podiumed the Tour. With Roglic still on board and being the possible leader for both Giro and Vuelta, Pellizzari may be the odd man out as I don't see a GT where he gets a chance to start as a (co-)leader. Evenepoel, Lipowitz and Roglic will all be ahead of him in the picking order and that's a shame since Pellizzari seems to be really talented and should be given the opportunity to fight for the GC as well.
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He wasn't a protected rider in the Giro this year, I doubt anything changes for him. Roglic has only one year left on his deal and will then likely leave or retire, and that basically opens the Giro slot. Hindley is also listed as end of contract in 2026, so I think those 2 could basically be the back up GC/superdomestique hybrid for the Giro.

The semi-protected alternate leader role in a GT isn't that limited to 1 guy. UAE had like 5 guys ending up doing it in the Giro, and basically it just means you keep your guys up there and they go full gas in the TTs as long as the race hasn't decided who's strongest.

The only real danglers left in the squad would be Vlasov and Dani Martinez, who are both contracted until 2027, and I expect both of them to not be that much of an issue because they haven't even shown any quality this year anyway.
 
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Faserr

Jun 22, 2009
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Lipo didn't want to ride the Tour this year. He wanted to ride the Giro. I would let him ride the Giro with Pellizari next year. Both protected and a good support team. I think Roglic will do TDS and Vuelta. Evenepoel the Tour as clear leader. I think Evenepoel and Roglic with secondleaders doesn't work. Thats just not how they ride. Lipo doesn't deserve a team like this year anymore.
Hindley, Vlasov and Martinez will probably be support riders. I think Hindely still gets a chance with the Vuelts this year.
 
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Valv.Piti

Valv.Piti

Aug 3, 2015
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And so the prep starts to win the TTT and get a yellow jersey in the TdF, only to lose it the next day to Pogacar in Montjuic
 
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VayaVayaVaya

Jun 1, 2015
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Heston said:
Lipowitz is for sure the best GT rider on the team now. Then Roglic, Remco and Pellizzari on roughly the same level. Hindley seems way off these days.

But either way I see a team that will never work in practice. Too many egos and riders that won't do proper dom work for the best rider (Lipo).

If I am Lipowitz I start to look for a new team. Pellizzari should consider it too.
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Wild take. It's pretty clearly IMO still right now:
  1. Roglic - would have been 5th or better this year despite the Giro crashes and infection with terrible prep; 2024 Vuelta win in dominating fashion, Giro 2023 winner + more or less tied for Vuelta win)
  2. Remco - has the same issue with crashes and positioning as Roglic but also has shown greater reliance on perfect prep and exposure to bad days, which is why he has 0 wins during that same time period
  3. Lipo - 3rd but further back than Remco the year before, beaten by Roglic on 3/6 climbs and 1/2 ITTs despite Roglic having infinitely worse prep, no GT wins, no dominating, winning performances like Rog and Rem
  4. Pellizari - has shown promise but has not delivered anything close to the above
Now I think it's worth investing in #s 2-4, also in that order, due to age and progression. My guess is Remco is pretty close to his maximum potential, Lipowitz a bit more unknown, Pellizari just coming into his own. But everyone is on their own development curve.

Unless the data shows that Roglic was clearly significantly worse in February, March, April this year before his Giro crashes than last year, I would not demote him based on a crash that was not his fault. He is still the closest thing to a sure thing in GTs they have.
 
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Berniece

Berniece

Sep 12, 2022
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At least some riders of RBH are happy Evenepoel is coming to the team. FFB and Martinez are looking forward to it.

“I think the thing is, when you have a winning environment, it changes the whole feeling in the team. It kind of brings everyone up,” Fisher-Black said. “So having one of these really incredible riders in the team, naturally it brings the whole team forward. It makes the whole team a bit more professional. If everyone is in good spirits, then the team is working well.

“You see an example exactly with UAE, they have almost every rider winning races. So I’m excited to see what it can do for the whole team. Remco is one rider, but he can bring this feeling to the team that can make it get some more success in other places.

“It’s another chapter that opens, so I’m pleased he’s here,” Martínez said in Wałbrzych. “For sure, with him in the team, we’ve got a very strong squad all round. He’s a massively important rider and for sure he’ll bring a lot to the team. That’s the thing, he’s coming to the team.”
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www.domestiquecycling.com

Red Bull riders welcome arrival of 'alien' Remco Evenepoel

Remco Evenepoel still has a few more months as a Soudal-QuickStep rider, but his new teammates at Red Bull-Bora-Hansgrohe are already well aware of what…
www.domestiquecycling.com www.domestiquecycling.com
 
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Faserr

Jun 22, 2009
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red_flanders said:
Wonder if he still feels that way after his successes this year.
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I think he would be fine with the Giro. He doesn't seem to need the spotlight of the Tour. He just wants to do his best possible performance. He could do that at the Giro, too.
But you never know, perhaps he is starting to like it. :D
 
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red_flanders

red_flanders

Apr 3, 2009
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Faserr said:
I think he would be fine with the Giro. He doesn't seem to need the spotlight of the Tour. He just wants to do his best possible performance. He could do that at the Giro, too.
But you never know, perhaps he is starting to like it. :D
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Sounds reasonable. I don't know the rider well at all, didn't mean to suggest he might be feeling one way or another. Genuine question on my part.
 
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Links2003

Jul 22, 2024
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VayaVayaVaya said:
Wild take. It's pretty clearly IMO still right now:
  1. Roglic - would have been 5th or better this year despite the Giro crashes and infection with terrible prep; 2024 Vuelta win in dominating fashion, Giro 2023 winner + more or less tied for Vuelta win)
  2. Remco - has the same issue with crashes and positioning as Roglic but also has shown greater reliance on perfect prep and exposure to bad days, which is why he has 0 wins during that same time period
  3. Lipo - 3rd but further back than Remco the year before, beaten by Roglic on 3/6 climbs and 1/2 ITTs despite Roglic having infinitely worse prep, no GT wins, no dominating, winning performances like Rog and Rem
  4. Pellizari - has shown promise but has not delivered anything close to the above
Now I think it's worth investing in #s 2-4, also in that order, due to age and progression. My guess is Remco is pretty close to his maximum potential, Lipowitz a bit more unknown, Pellizari just coming into his own. But everyone is on their own development curve.

Unless the data shows that Roglic was clearly significantly worse in February, March, April this year before his Giro crashes than last year, I would not demote him based on a crash that was not his fault. He is still the closest thing to a sure thing in GTs they have.
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Your list clearly shows the challenge facing RBH: it is difficult to establish a clear order, and there are differing opinions.
In addition, you will certainly come to different conclusions if you only look at the GTs or other races. Guilio and Lipowitz seem to have their greatest strengths in long races. They will probably not achieve the same number of victories as Remco or Roglic. But I think they have great chances in GTs in the future. Especially Lipowitz.

UAE has the advantage: Pogi is undisputed. Everyone works for him because everyone knows he is very likely to win. In return, almost every rider gets their own chance in other races because UAE also competes in many races where their riders can win. This creates a winning mentality within the team. You believe in your own victories, but you also fight for your teammates.
That still needs to develop at RBH. And it's not at all clear who the right leader is. Currently, several riders seem to believe that they are the leader. That will be a big challenge. If you can create a team spirit, it can be really good. If you don't, there will be lots of little cliques within the team, and then there won't be enough support from everyone in the team, and a bad atmosphere is never good for success.
 
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CyclistAbi

May 29, 2019
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The thing is if they would end up determining a clear hierarchy, then they likely lost already as racing from their side would be too predictable. If they really want to win the Tour then basically all must go and they need to keep pressing day in day out. Similar to what Visma did but i feel that they could be stronger then Jonas/Matteo card. Said that and for now i don't know if they have it in them, a team. We'll see on how it evolves when and if they start racing together.
 
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Links2003

Jul 22, 2024
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In a recent podcast, Denk said that he is now solely responsible for signing riders following Aldag's departure. Whether this is the best idea for the team remains to be seen. In the same podcast, he himself says that he does not see this as his favorite role and where his strengths lie. He sees himself more as the puppet master in the background and the point of contact for (new) partners.
 
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Oldman

Jun 19, 2009
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Moose McKnuckles said:
Maybe somebody needs to tell Bora that their three team captains aren't like Voltron or Power Rangers and can't combine into like a Dino Megaclimber to beat Pogacar.
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Yeah, I think Bora and all of those riders know that. Roglic's been in that position with everyone and he knows what it would take to come close. He can tell the others because they aren't on that elevation yet.
 
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LongtimeLurker

Sep 2, 2024
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Faserr said:
Podcast in spring were Lipo hinted it . He said he wanted to do the Giro but the team decided to let him race the dauphine (and perhaps the Tour).
I don't know anymore which podcast it was, but I am sure that he said it.
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I wouldnt believe every podcast you listen to regardless who is talking
 
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