Teams & Riders The Red Bull - Bora - Hansgrohe team thread

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Berniece

Berniece

Sep 12, 2022
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LongtimeLurker said:
I dont know who is feeding this to the media but this is not accurate at all. He is just serving as a DS only there is no special role for him within the team where he is focusing on Development 1st then Remco. He is with he Development team now only so he can learn how to DS and the Teams systems, The Development structure speaks for itself and once he goes to the WT team as a DS next year is all he does.
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Isn't that what the article is saying? There were rumours that Vanthourenhout would replace Rolf Aldag, but like you said before, that's not the case.

Can you maybe explain why Lodewyck is also joining RBH when there's already Vanthourenhout that has a focus on the races Remco does?
 
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LongtimeLurker

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Berniece said:
Isn't that what the article is saying? There were rumours that Vanthourenhout would replace Rolf Aldag, but like you said before, that's not the case.

Can you maybe explain why Lodewyck is also joining RBH when there's already Vanthourenhout that has a focus on the races Remco does?
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Says he is part of the special project that is Remco. He is not involved in that.

He has a reputation of talking, seems he is doing just this to ramp himself up
 
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Unchained

Sep 5, 2016
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LongtimeLurker said:
I dont know who is feeding this to the media but this is not accurate at all. He is just serving as a DS only there is no special role for him within the team where he is focusing on Development 1st then Remco. He is with he Development team now only so he can learn how to DS and the Teams systems, The Development structure speaks for itself and once he goes to the WT team as a DS next year is all he does.
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I might be misreading what you wrote, but if a guy is going to get a little training in development level teams, learn enough to switch to world tour ..the guy..the team will be eaten alive.
Aldag is a doper, sure, but he knows racing and racers.
Bora needs an absolute professional.. An almost bike racing cowboy, Remco, Primoz, Lipowitz in same circle, one miscalculation could be a catastrophe with ego and pride involved.
 
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Berniece

Berniece

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Unchained said:
I might be misreading what you wrote, but if a guy is going to get a little training in development level teams, learn enough to switch to world tour ..the guy..the team will be eaten alive.
Aldag is a doper, sure, but he knows racing and racers.
Bora needs an absolute professional.. An almost bike racing cowboy, Remco, Primoz, Lipowitz in same circle, one miscalculation could be a catastrophe with ego and pride involved.
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He was able to smooth issues out for Belgium after 2021 WC. So I guess he knows how to manage riders mentally.
 
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red_flanders

red_flanders

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Rackham said:
For years I've been reading comments from Evenepoel fans saying Quick Step is a garbage team in GT's and their DS's are incompetent.

So at face value seeing Red Bull go shopping over there for staff members is a bit strange. Bora was winning GT's FWIW. I'd say it's the classics side that really had issues. Their last two seasons have featured terrible spring campaigns.
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Maybe not everything Evenepoel's fans say is 100% accurate.

Feel like the gnashing of teeth around a couple of DS's coming over with a top rider is a bit...overdone...and that's not aimed exclusively at your comments. They're paying a LOT for Remco, I'm willing to let them figure out the best way to get value of of the contract. Personally I prefer to see what the results are and judge from there.
 
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Charlyghoul

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red_flanders said:
Maybe not everything Evenepoel's fans say is 100% accurate.

Feel like the gnashing of teeth around a couple of DS's coming over with a top rider is a bit...overdone...and that's not aimed exclusively at your comments. They're paying a LOT for Remco, I'm willing to let them figure out the best way to get value of of the contract. Personally I prefer to see what the results are and judge from there.
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It’s somewhat bizarre they feel the need to bring ds’s from quickstep though.
It seems to be a narrative that Remco’s team was holding him back and not allowing him to develop to be the rider that he can be. With that in mind why change teams but bring support staff from the previous ‘bad team’?
 
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red_flanders

red_flanders

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Charlyghoul said:
It’s somewhat bizarre they feel the need to bring ds’s from quickstep though.
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It's "bizarre"? That a top rider who they just bought for millions might have input on staff? That the team might adjust management to the new team structure? I would find it bizarre that weren't the case.
Charlyghoul said:
It seems to be a narrative that Remco’s team was holding him back and not allowing him to develop to be the rider that he can be. With that in mind why change teams but bring support staff from the previous ‘bad team’?
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OK. Whose narrative?

If (a big if) we accept that the above is a deeply informed, meaningful, and accurate narrative, does the "team" holding him back mean that everyone on the team was holding him back? Does it mean the one guy on the team who they're bringing him over was holding him back? Does it mean the guy who wasn't even on the team who they're bringing over was holding him back? The answer is a big N.O. in all cases.

These questions come across as looking for a problem. Seems...bizarre.
 
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Charlyghoul

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red_flanders said:
It's "bizarre"? That a top rider who they just bought for millions might have input on staff? That the team might adjust management to the new team structure? I would find it bizarre that weren't the case.

OK. Whose narrative?

If (a big if) we accept that the above is a deeply informed, meaningful, and accurate narrative, does the "team" holding him back mean that everyone on the team was holding him back? Does it mean the one guy on the team who they're bringing him over was holding him back? Does it mean the guy who wasn't even on the team who they're bringing over was holding him back? The answer is a big N.O. in all cases.

These questions come across as looking for a problem. Seems...bizarre.
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Not looking for a problem , just a thought.
Mostly it seems the die hard Remco fans blame his team.
Forgetting that for a moment, Remco has been very inconsistent, for whatever reasons. You’d think that a whole new fresh start on a proven grand tour team would be best for him. Well I would, and I’m sure I’m not alone.
What is wrong with the current management of red bull that Remco needs his own managers and a ‘special project’ ?
The team has proven to win grand tours with established stars (Roglic) and be able to develop young gc riders (Lipo), why does he need his own special managers to come with him?
 
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red_flanders

red_flanders

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Charlyghoul said:
Not looking for a problem , just a thought.
Mostly it seems the die hard Remco fans blame his team.
Forgetting that for a moment, Remco has been very inconsistent, for whatever reasons. You’d think that a whole new fresh start on a proven grand tour team would be best for him. Well I would, and I’m sure I’m not alone.
What is wrong with the current management of red bull that Remco needs his own managers and a ‘special project’ ?
The team has proven to win grand tours with established stars (Roglic) and be able to develop young gc riders (Lipo), why does he need his own special managers to come with him?
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Asked and answered, for my part.
 
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Charlyghoul

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red_flanders said:
Asked and answered, for my part.
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I don’t know why you feel the need to be so defensive. I only said I thought it might be better for Remco to have a whole clean slate at a new team. A new team that is much more proven at delivering grand tour results.
It sounds like you’re more knowledgeable than me on the particular managers that Remco feels the need to bring with him.
What can they bring with them and how can it benefit Remco ? I do genuinely want to know, how they benefit him?
There’s no need for such attitude in your reply.
 
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red_flanders

red_flanders

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Charlyghoul said:
I don’t know why you feel the need to be so defensive. I only said I thought it might be better for Remco to have a whole clean slate at a new team. A new team that is much more proven at delivering grand tour results.
It sounds like you’re more knowledgeable than me on the particular managers that Remco feels the need to bring with him.
What can they bring with them and how can it benefit Remco ? I do genuinely want to know, how they benefit him?
There’s no need for such attitude in your reply.
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That’s a lot to read into a simple reply. Simply nothing more to say since you just repeated what you’d said before.
 
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LongtimeLurker

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Berniece said:
Isn't that what the article is saying? There were rumours that Vanthourenhout would replace Rolf Aldag, but like you said before, that's not the case.

Can you maybe explain why Lodewyck is also joining RBH when there's already Vanthourenhout that has a focus on the races Remco does?
Click to expand...
Vanthurenhout from my understanding does not focus on Remco races.
 
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CyclistAbi

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If they want to target the 1st, then currently i would say the only plausible solution is to use the strength of numbers. That would come down to co-leadership and opportunistic racing from all leaders. Somehow i doubt the egos would allow for it? Then again it's not like any of them has a big enough ego, to win Tour de France on that merit. So, podium spot is IMHO reserved for RBH and honestly nobody will give them much credit for finishing third. Rogla IMHO doesn't even want it, finish third, Lipo might be OK with it, Remco IMHO no as that si not progress.

We'll see.
 
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pablohidalgo7

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Boichis being promoted to the WT (as someone mentioned the other day) makes perfect sense. He had a very good performance today in the Czech Republic, and he already finished fifth at the Planche de Belles Filles in Alsace, in addition to winning the puncheurs' race in Croatia in March and collecting some decent results in other races.
I repeat, even though he's 22, this is his first year focused on the road, and he still has important goals in XCO at the same time, so he's not 100% dedicated, even this season. At the moment, his endurance and consistency aren't there, but his punch and talent on individual days are, so he can only get better.

Jasch is also improving more than I expected for someone with almost no cycling experience, could also be an option for 2025.
 
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