Teams & Riders The Red Bull - Bora - Hansgrohe team thread

[YavorD]

I am OK with that, that is the team can abandon Rogla if he crashes for as long as they bring the mentioned riders to the Tour.

That's okay, but you're actually sending a weak team to the Tour then.

 

[red_flanders]

Meh. Lets just leave it at we have different opinions. As i can't possibly understand on how one could claim RBH doesn't have a climbing support issues, compared to UAE and Visma, considering your claims on how RBH must do it and on how others do it. They are nowhere near in support of their leader, on when racing that actually matters starts. And no, this is not on how it should be done.

Do you not understand what a strawman is?

Point me to a post where I make any claim about RBH's "issues", climbing or otherwise. They don't exist. Responding to a post saying I "claim how RBH must do it", or "one could claim RBH blah blah blah" is just nonsensical.

Again. Read the posts. If you have questions, ask. Don't claim someone said some stupid thing and then argue against fake positions which you just made up.

 

[Berniece]

That is your problem, you invented it, so you would need to answer that question. The way i see it this is a non issue as nobody would be hungry or thirsty, maybe hungry for love or hungry for more.

What do you mean a problem I invented? You made the team selection, the race is ongoing with a stage of 200km. Who is getting the water bottles for Roglic? Since everyone is a leader.

 

[Ilmaestro99]

I agree with cyclist abi. The tour team should be

Pelizzari (leader)
Lipovitz (co-leader)
Hindley (co leader)
Roglic (sprinter)
Evenepoel (sprint lead out and timed trials)
Vlasov (super domestic)
Danielle Martinez (super domestic)
Trarnik (domestique and slovenian)

IMO this is the best and most balanced team and would give the mazimum entertainment

 

[CyclistAbi]

@Ilmaestro99

I mean yeah, in the gist of it i would sign up for that. I assume that you pushed Pelizzari in sole leader position, due to being Italian. Such fluctuation is hence OK and perfectly understandable.

 

[CyclistAbi]

That's okay, but you're actually sending a weak team to the Tour then.

No. If one crashes and gets eliminated the rest of the team can still win or do good. Plus if Rogla by any chance loses a minute or two in such case, then in mountains he can easily get that back, with great team support. Said all that i sincerely doubt the team would just abandon Rogla, or any other leader, completely, and all would act we are the leaders, we are the world.

So that was a made up argument in this debate as it doesn't work like that on the road.

Do you not understand what a strawman is?

Point me to a post where I make any claim about RBH's "issues", climbing or otherwise. They don't exist. Responding to a post saying I "claim how RBH must do it", or "one could claim RBH blah blah blah" is just nonsensical.

Again. Read the posts. If you have questions, ask. Don't claim someone said some stupid thing and then argue against fake positions which you just made up.

Please refrain yourself from telling others on what they should do or read, especially when you don't even do your part. You are claiming all over the debate on how RBH should do it, as supposedly all others do it like that, but when i ask you OK, but they are weak in mountains, as a supporting team. Then you simply don't answer or respond to that and rather result to moot arguments.

What do you mean a problem I invented? You made the team selection, the race is ongoing with a stage of 200km. Who is getting the water bottles for Roglic? Since everyone is a leader.

You invented the problem of riders being hungry and standing no chance on flat if the wind picks up. What i am telling you is that is a non issue, such team has this covered and that is a non issue for them. Moreover they would likely crush the competition in such scenario, they are more then good enough for that all while being fed.

 

[proffate]

I think Abi expects Roglic to pull a Kuss.

 

[Ilmaestro99]

I think Abi expects Roglic to pull a Kuss.

I think abi expects roglic to pull a pocagar

 

[Netserk]

Incredible the amount of responses this generates …

 

[CyclistAbi]

I think Abi expects Roglic to pull a Kuss.

Under Rogličes realm there was GC Kuss and Wout was often a bigger star then him, fear not.

I think abi expects roglic to pull a pocagar

No, Rogla really shouldn't pull for Pogi at the Tour 2026, especially if RBH sends a decent team.

 

[aphronesis]

Under Rogličes realm there was GC Kuss and Wout was often a bigger star then him, fear not.



No, Rogla really shouldn't pull for Pogi at the Tour 2026, especially if RBH sends a decent team.

Well done.

 

[red_flanders]

Please refrain yourself from telling others on what they should do or read, especially when you don't even do your part.

If you say I'm "claiming" xyz and I've never said anything of the sort, I'm gonna tell you about it. If you don't want to hear it, tough.

Or...and this is gonna blow your mind...stop doing it.

You are claiming all over the debate on how RBH should do it, as supposedly all others do it like that, but when i ask you OK, but they are weak in mountains, as a supporting team. Then you simply don't answer or respond to that and rather result to moot arguments.

You didn't ask me anything. You blurted out a load of nonsensical strawmen. I'm not going to respond to strawman arguments other than to point them out.

Make a rational post. People will respond in kind.

 

[red_flanders]

Incredible the amount of responses this generates …

Well, when one person spams the thread, it happens.

 

[pastronef]

in any case I hope for Pog's tummy ache, a cold, a disastrous echelon, some miracle, that gets Remco in yellow in Paris

 

[James M]

Reading this thread. It might be time for an intervention soon.

 

[Ilmaestro99]

Reading this thread. It might be time for an intervention soon.

Pocagar telling us how many leaders should Bora send to the tour next year

 

[red_flanders]

Pocagar telling us how many leaders should Bora send to the tour next year

LOL, but he'd need to be showing 8 fingers.

 

[YavorD]

No. If one crashes and gets eliminated the rest of the team can still win or do good.

No, no one can.
Unless Remco or Lipowitz improve massively or Pog and Vingo crash out.
And in both cases they would need support for the easy stages as much as for the mountains.

So it doesn't matter how you put it, you NEED flat support, not only good climbers. And without such, you're constructing a weak team.

 

[Cycling111]

I think abi expects roglic to pull a pocagar

Roglic's biggest burden will always be having lost a Tour with the best team, while Pogacar was practically alone for the entire Tour. From then on, all the debates about teams and domestiques are pointless.

The same could be said of Remco. In the Tour, you need a good team, but that's given to the favorite and the runner-up; everyone else has to earn it first. Only Landa in 2024 is better than any of Pogacar's teammates in 2020.

Pogacar went to the 2019 Vuelta and the 2020 Tour with a terrible team. He was alone on every mountain. They gave him a strong team after he had already won his first Tour. He had already shown he was very good in three weeks before having a good team.

I always say that cyclists like Ayuso or Del Toro have been very lucky. From their first GT, they've had a strong team. But instead of appreciating it, some, like Ayuso, complain, and the fans justify it. They should look at how other young riders fared in their first GT, Pogacar for example. UAE was a complete mediocre team, Aru was failing, and domestiques like Henao weren't even present on the penultimate mountain stage.

Remco has earned the right to be given a strong team, although to win the Tour de France, you first have to prove you can be one of the top two, and sometimes people talk about him as if he were Vingegard at TDF, and he hasn't shown anything of the sort. But there are other cyclists who complain for the sake of complaining without having yet shown they can aspire to win the Tour enough to demand teams with seven climbers.

I've gone off on a tangent. But Abi always talks about teams as if Roglic hasn't had the best in almost every GT he's raced as leader. He even had the best team, by far, in the Tour he lost, and Pogacar didn't even have the second-best team.

 

[acm]

In any case Rogla will still be a DILF so i don't see an issue here.

Haha, legendary response!

 

[CyclistAbi]

If you say I'm "claiming" xyz and I've never said anything of the sort, I'm gonna tell you about it. If you don't want to hear it, tough.

Or...and this is gonna blow your mind...stop doing it.

You didn't ask me anything. You blurted out a load of nonsensical strawmen. I'm not going to respond to strawman arguments other than to point them out.

Make a rational post. People will respond in kind.

No, you are rather selective in your responses, that is all. For example you don't want to respond to a question if RBH is currently offering good support to their leaders in GT races on when it comes to climbing. As if you would actually respond, rather to result to moot arguments, then the only logical conclusion would be they need to strengthen their climbing section as currently it is weak, weaker then the names on the paper suggest.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

Roglic's biggest burden will always be having lost a Tour with the best team, while Pogacar was practically alone for the entire Tour. From then on, all the debates about teams and domestiques are pointless.

The same could be said of Remco. In the Tour, you need a good team, but that's given to the favorite and the runner-up; everyone else has to earn it first. Only Landa in 2024 is better than any of Pogacar's teammates in 2020.

Pogacar went to the 2019 Vuelta and the 2020 Tour with a terrible team. He was alone on every mountain. They gave him a strong team after he had already won his first Tour. He had already shown he was very good in three weeks before having a good team.

I always say that cyclists like Ayuso or Del Toro have been very lucky. From their first GT, they've had a strong team. But instead of appreciating it, some, like Ayuso, complain, and the fans justify it. They should look at how other young riders fared in their first GT, Pogacar for example. UAE was a complete mediocre team, Aru was failing, and domestiques like Henao weren't even present on the penultimate mountain stage.

Remco has earned the right to be given a strong team, although to win the Tour de France, you first have to prove you can be one of the top two, and sometimes people talk about him as if he were Vingegard at TDF, and he hasn't shown anything of the sort. But there are other cyclists who complain for the sake of complaining without having yet shown they can aspire to win the Tour enough to demand teams with seven climbers.

I've gone off on a tangent. But Abi always talks about teams as if Roglic hasn't had the best in almost every GT he's raced as leader. He even had the best team, by far, in the Tour he lost, and Pogacar didn't even have the second-best team.

Pogi is living an intense cycling life and, like a super-giant star, will fade quickly. Rogla will outlast those kids and win the Tour in 2040.

 

[CyclistAbi]

No, no one can.
Unless Remco or Lipowitz improve massively or Pog and Vingo crash out.
And in both cases they would need support for the easy stages as much as for the mountains.

So it doesn't matter how you put it, you NEED flat support, not only good climbers. And without such, you're constructing a weak team.

OK, lets do it your way then, why does in your opinion Remco need that much support on flat sections, for being able to win the Tour? What is the reason behind it?

 

[AmRacer]

OK, lets do it your way then, why does in your opinion Remco need that much support on flat sections, for being able to win the Tour? What is the reason behind it?

To not waisting energy on easy stages.

 

[CyclistAbi]

To not waisting energy on easy stages.

As otherwise Remco will be riding at the front of the peloton?