Teams & Riders The Remco Evenepoel is the next Eddy Merckx thread

[Karl Merckx]

Was Vingegaard stronger than Pogi on Couillole? He did bigger numbers!

Sorry but it's a *** argument.
The situations are completely different, but let's assume they are not and that Mas could have done better. Then you think Mas didn't pull more because he didn't care about take time back ? It's ridiculous....

But i guess it's all good, we got a couple of empty answers. Good night.

 

[Netserk]

Sorry but it's a *** argument.
The situations are completely different, but let's assume they are not and that Mas could have done better. Then you think Mas didn't pull more because he didn't care about take time back ? It's ridiculous....

But i guess it's all good, we got a couple of empty answers. Good night.

Had Mas pulled Superman all the way, he'd have done bigger numbers but been slower. No one races in order to put out the biggest numbers possible.

 

[Berniece]

I just don’t get why people are completely ignoring the crash on top of MAS and Superman not being seen as threats

 

[Netserk]

I just don’t get why people are completely ignoring the crash on top of MAS and Superman not being seen as threats

For the same reason that when discussing what Rogla could have done in the Tour if not for the crash caused by Lutsenko, you don't start by also hypothesising what would have been different if Pogi hadn't done the Giro or Rogla hadn't changed team or no injuries had been sustained in Itzulia.

 

[Berniece]

For the same reason that when discussing what Rogla could have done in the Tour if not for the crash caused by Lutsenko, you don't start by also hypothesising what would have been different if Pogi hadn't done the Giro or Rogla hadn't changed team or no injuries had been sustained in Itzulia.

Completely different. This is picking specific things out of a race to make it seem as if there were other possible outcomes. “If there were no TT’s Remco wouldn’t have won.” Ignoring that the race tactics would be completely different and that the kid crashed right before the most important stages.

In later mountain stages Mas didn’t show he was the better climber. Only after Evenepoel just crashed. So even without TT’s and without a crash, Evenepoel would have won that Vuelta.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

For the same reason that when discussing what Rogla could have done in the Tour if not for the crash caused by Lutsenko, you don't start by also hypothesising what would have been different if Pogi hadn't done the Giro or Rogla hadn't changed team or no injuries had been sustained in Itzulia.

When somebody crashes out, you have no point of reference of what he could have done. When somebody crashes, but is able to continue, i think it's safe to say there is a reasonable chance he could have done better without the crash. Or you think that's too farfetched?

 

[Netserk]

Completely different. This is picking specific things out of a race to make it seem as if there were other possible outcomes. “If there were no TT’s Remco wouldn’t have won.” Ignoring that the race tactics would be completely different and that the kid crashed right before the most important stages.

In later mountain stages Mas didn’t show he was the better climber. Only after Evenepoel just crashed. So even without TT’s and without a crash, Evenepoel would have won that Vuelta.

The original claim in this discussion was that you couldn't win a GT in a 30 km ITT. RR then offered Vuelta '22 as an example of that, to which KM replied: "thinking Mas would have won without TT's is laughable".

As that Vuelta played out, Evenepoel won it in the TTs. Had there not been any, then it's far from laughable that Mas would have won the race.

 

[Netserk]

When somebody crashes out, you have no point of reference of what he could have done. When somebody crashes, but is able to continue, i think it's safe to say there is a reasonable chance he could have done better without the crash. Or you think that's too farfetched?

And Rogla would have done better before he crashed out of the Tour if he hadn't crashed previously over the season, but that's irrelevant to the discussion of the specific crash that caused him to abandon the race.

 

[peterfin]

The Vuelta 2022 without TT's would have been a different race. Still, if you ask me who would have won it, I bet it would be Evenepoel and not Mas and most would agree with me. Forget about their climbing legs and the potential minor differences during that race, the difference in winners mentality alone between both is enough.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

And Rogla would have done better before he crashed out of the Tour if he hadn't crashed previously over the season, but that's irrelevant to the discussion of the specific crash that caused him to abandon the race.

Indeed, so why bring it up? We were discussing the racing conditions, and his crash was part of that.

 

[Berniece]

Interview in the NYT with the golden boy about his road to winning two gold medals at the Olympics.

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archive.is

 

[Berniece]

But Evenepoel wasn't close to beat Vingegaard too...

Because Vingegaard improved too, he said this himself.

You know it doesn’t really matter. You don’t believe Evenepoel will ever be able to close the gap to those two, I think he’ll can. Future will show us who is right.

 

[EddyMazzoleni]

The original claim in this discussion was that you couldn't win a GT in a 30 km ITT. RR then offered Vuelta '22 as an example of that, to which KM replied: "thinking Mas would have won without TT's is laughable".

As that Vuelta played out, Evenepoel won it in the TTs. Had there not been any, then it's far from laughable that Mas would have won the race.

I'm not a native english speaker, but saying that Mas would have won the Vuelta gives out to me a sense of certainty that i think is not supported by facts. He surely could have won the Vuelta, but it did not show a costant superiority to Evenepoel, in fact he lost 1:51 in the TT and the GC by 2:02, altough that is also counting time bonuses

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

The entire discussion is moot as fck, since especially Evenepoel has always been one to take the ITT into consideration when it comes to determining his weight going into a GT. Without the TT, he could and very well might have lost 0.5-1kg of extra weight before the start which would have helped him gain more in the mountains than in the TT that Vuelta.

Which is exactly what the original statement from Evenepoel was all about. He specifically talked about losing an extra 1 kg in order to perform better on long climbs, at the cost of potentially performing a bit worse in the meagre amount of TT kms in GTs. He was talking about the trade-off. Going for the ideal weight with TT's in mind, would never be a net gain compared to going for the ideal climbing weight.

 

[red_flanders]

The entire discussion is moot as fck, since especially Evenepoel has always been one to take the ITT into consideration when it comes to determining his weight going into a GT. Without the TT, he could and very well might have lost 0.5-1kg of extra weight before the start which would have helped him gain more in the mountains than in the TT that Vuelta.

Which is exactly what the original statement from Evenepoel was all about. He specifically talked about losing an extra 1 kg in order to perform better on long climbs, at the cost of potentially performing a bit worse in the meagre amount of TT kms in GTs. He was talking about the trade-off. Going for the ideal weight with TT's in mind, would never be a net gain compared to going for the ideal climbing weight.

Also moot AF until we get a GT with no TTs… 😂

He’s learned that he’s plenty good enough in the TT that it’s never going to be why he loses a GT. I think beyond the weight thing, he is talking about how he will plan his calendar moving forward. What races he’ll choose and how he’ll focus his training. Big TTs just aren’t going to be “A” goals in his calendar anymore.

I’d assume he’ll train with a tighter focus on climbing and explosive efforts, and I REALLY hope he’ll be spending a hell of a lot of time getting comfortable descending.

 

[Red Rick]

The things that happen when you point out a GT with 30km of ITT was won by the best ITTer.

 

[ColonelKidneyBeans]

The things that happen when you point out a GT with 30km of ITT was won by the best ITTer.

I'm confident you knew this was going to happen

 

[Netserk]

I'm confident you knew this was going to happen

Yes, he knows he gets in trouble whenever he speaks.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Remco won the race. He was the best rider, and the was the best climber in the first part of the race, and obviously the best time trialist. Very deserved victory, although the route was some very weak sauce, but that's not Remco's fault. End of.

So, Euros TT? Not bad, I guess you might as well ride the road race. Can't really tell how hard this route is, it doesn't look hard at all, but then again, some of the Flemish races doesn't look that hot either, but usually delivers great racing.

 

[Netserk]

Remco won the race. He was the best rider, and the was the best climber in the first part of the race, and obviously the best time trialist. Very deserved victory, although the route was some very weak sauce, but that's not Remco's fault.

Nobody disagrees.

End of.

Why should that end discussion of whether or not he won the race in the TTs?

 

[Berniece]

So, Euros TT? Not bad, I guess you might as well ride the road race. Can't really tell how hard this route is, it doesn't look hard at all, but then again, some of the Flemish races doesn't look that hot either, but usually delivers great racing.

RR is really really flat. It starts at a racetrack, and the area isn’t known for echelons. It will be a bunch sprint.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Nobody disagrees.

Why should that end discussion of whether or not he won the race in the TTs?

Because its a really, really dumb discussion. Whats with debating absolutely useless stuff from the 2022 Vuelta lately? Like, my god, get on with it man, we have a great race coming up and every time you jump into the threads of Roglic, Ayuso, Remco or Kuss lately its just major headache. Do people actually get joy out of this?

 

[ColonelKidneyBeans]

Because its a really, really dumb discussion. Whats with debating absolutely useless stuff from the 2022 Vuelta lately? Like, my god, get on with it man, we have a great race coming up and every time you jump into the threads of Roglic, Ayuso, Remco or Kuss lately its just major headache. Do people actually get joy out of this?

Yeah, the only thing that could happen was reigniting the good old, beaten to death debate about Evenepoel climbing during the second week of that Vuelta. Personally i think the "can he climb in the high mountains at the highest level for 3 week" question as become moot since the Tour, so why bring it back?

 

[SHAD0W93]

Because its a really, really dumb discussion. Whats with debating absolutely useless stuff from the 2022 Vuelta lately? Like, my god, get on with it man,

I feel like for some it’s a carry over from the energy built in Roglic’s thread the other day from events in the 2022 Vuelta.

 

[red_flanders]

Kind of interesting that he's starting to mention Triathlons.

But one day, I will do Ironmans and triathlons. I think age matters less in an Ironman because it’s less explosive. And it will keep me from gaining weight. A third medal would have been very special, but it wouldn’t have done me any good for the road race," Evenepoel concludes.

At least he won't have to work on his bike handling. He's probably at the top of the Tri bike-handling world as it stands...