Teams & Riders The Remco Evenepoel is the next Eddy Merckx thread

[Extinction]

Lets not pretend Evenepoel would be able to follow Pog more than a very few min without blowing up. Evenepoel is great and just as great as he was yesterday loosing to this Pogacar is no shame, everyone else in the history would do the same. Evenepoel is guuci.

A fantastic rider even in historical terms and more to come next season bet on that.

It's not a given. Remco clearly was not on a great day. But what Pogacar did was extraordinary.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

This will be remembered as the WCC for the mentally challenged. If not by others, at least by me. Pogacar's move was dumb, and the only reason he made it, was because the others were even dumber. My god. Evenepoel rode like a word that is unfortunately censored on this forum. I have no idea what Kelderman and Mollema were doing, seemed like Van der Poel was working for them more than the other way around. Great move by the Belgian national coach not to include teammates of Evenepoel who piloted him in both his Liège wins, but instead... * drumroll * ... bring teammates of Pogacar instead and guys who could do nothing on this course in the last 150km. Brilliant move. Whatever Vollering had, seems to be infectious. Good thing was that Evenepoel was simply not having a good day, so he was not going to win even if he didn't ride like a complete idiot.

 

[Extinction]

The problem was that nobody was ready or able to go with him from 100 km out. The rest is history and it will remain in their heads for a very long time. Tadej inflicted another psychological blow. Who can challenge him now?

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

The problem was that nobody was ready or able to go with him from 100 km out. The rest is history and it will remain in their heads for a very long time. Tadej inflicted another psychological blow. Who can challenge him now?

That wasn't the problem. The problem was that all the others thought it was a problem, while in reality Pogacar handed them the perfect scenario to wreck him. They chased like a bunch of ****** and still Ben fcking O'Connor finished only 35s behind Pogacar. That tells you that with a somewhat competent chase, you could easily have caught him. His lead never was more than 62 seconds. It was the perfect scenario to keep him dangling 45s in front and reel him in 30km from the finish. The only redeeming factor is that Pog was actually the strongest rider, so the strongest won.

 

[ArnaudVDL]

I wanted Tadej to win, but this really like a failure from g2 and the Belgium team

First of, why the hell do Remco and mvdp and their teams just let him go. Why were they so badly positioned when you probably could see that Pogacar was gonna attack because Novak was pacing and Pogacar was in front of the group. Then, because of the chase took long to form, Pogacar gained 30 second or more for free. Then the Belgians start pacing and because they have to do it alone because it looks like nobody wanted, they burn through their riders. G2 syndrome then set in, and they just start to look at each other and attack each other. G2 did *** all for like 90 percent of the time.

G2 syndrome has been apparent this season. Also this race could probably have been different if radio's were allowed.

 

[mlescanojr]

That wasn't the problem. The problem was that all the others thought it was a problem, while in reality Pogacar handed them the perfect scenario to wreck him. They chased like a bunch of ****** and still Ben fcking O'Connor finished only 35s behind Pogacar. That tells you that with a somewhat competent chase, you could easily have caught him. His lead never was more than 62 seconds. It was the perfect scenario to keep him dangling 45s in front and reel him in 30km from the finish. The only redeeming factor is that Pog was actually the strongest rider, so the strongest won.

No, they could not.

VdP told in the interview they were on the limit, that's why they could not bring Pogacar back.

And let's not fool ourselves, Pogacar relaxed in the last km, that's why the 35s difference.

But you can try to diminish Pogacar feat.

He controlled the difference for almost 80 km, when he attacked after Tratnik pull.

 

[Extinction]

That wasn't the problem. The problem was that all the others thought it was a problem, while in reality Pogacar handed them the perfect scenario to wreck him. They chased like a bunch of ****** and still Ben fcking O'Connor finished only 35s behind Pogacar. That tells you that with a somewhat competent chase, you could easily have caught him. His lead never was more than 62 seconds. It was the perfect scenario to keep him dangling 45s in front and reel him in 30km from the finish. The only redeeming factor is that Pog was actually the strongest rider, so the strongest won.

Look, they didn't reel him back in because they couldn't. Belgium had been pacing the whole day and so didn't have the fire power to get back on terms. Holland was a lame duck. Everybody else was rightly expecting those two teams to do the work. Remco and Mattieu miscalculated spectacularly. Maybe they didn't have the legs to go with Pogacar from 100 km out. They certainly couldn't counter-attack and were even afraid to try until it was too late. No, the Slovenian inflicted a devestating psychological blow and it's a problem for them in the future. As Michael Woods put it simply: "When Tadej went, everyone was unable to follow. He's the best rider in the world".

 

[Oldermanish]

Remco is a spoiled young man who thinks other guys have to work for him.

It was beautiful to see he losing his temper, screaming at Jorgenson.

Jorgenson is the real deal and Remco is lucky he didn't dump him at Paris Nice and leave him for backwash. He definitely gives what he has and Remco didn't have the benefit of seeing how deep Mateo went trying to stay on Tadej's wheel at that big moment. He couldn't see it because he was buried back in the pack.

 

[Oldermanish]

I wanted Tadej to win, but this really like a failure from g2 and the Belgium team

First of, why the hell do Remco and mvdp and their teams just let him go. Why were they so badly positioned when you probably could see that Pogacar was gonna attack because Novak was pacing and Pogacar was in front of the group. Then, because of the chase took long to form, Pogacar gained 30 second or more for free. Then the Belgians start pacing and because they have to do it alone because it looks like nobody wanted, they burn through their riders. G2 syndrome then set in, and they just start to look at each other and attack each other. G2 did *** all for like 90 percent of the time.

G2 syndrome has been apparent this season. Also this race could probably have been different if radio's were allowed.

Radios...radios. If these wankers knew how to ride and not tried to encourage others to work for them it would have been a different race. How did instant communications from a retired racer guy in a car supplant rider instinct and initiative? You want to see better, real racing turn off the tech. You'll find out very quickly who are the actual strong and crafty racers are.

 

[stekelegel]

That wasn't the problem. The problem was that all the others thought it was a problem, while in reality Pogacar handed them the perfect scenario to wreck him. They chased like a bunch of ****** and still Ben fcking O'Connor finished only 35s behind Pogacar. That tells you that with a somewhat competent chase, you could easily have caught him. His lead never was more than 62 seconds. It was the perfect scenario to keep him dangling 45s in front and reel him in 30km from the finish. The only redeeming factor is that Pog was actually the strongest rider, so the strongest won.

Pogacar was obviously the best rider on the day and that by a big margin, but indeed, he rode the race like he wanted to make it challenge fior himself. If he would have waited until 50km, he wins by a couple of minutes.
It would have been a perfect scenario for riders like VDP and Evenepoel to chase and catch him on the final climb. I think if they get him back at 50km, Pog just goes again on the last climb.
Several factors contributed to the chase that never was after the Belgians rode for 1 round:
- several domestiques riding their worst race of the year: nobody noticed Benoot, Wellens with the Belgians, but where did the Danes, Italians, Spain, USA hid their forces?
- the loss of Alaphilippe, Bilbao, Skellmose, Landa,... disrupted the tactics of several teams and with no communications a lots of riders just rode their own race
- riders lacking any tactical awareness when not being guided by their team. With a WC being ridden on a different route each year, they lack usual route knowledge. The fact that it is a circuit usualy means loads of turns, favoring attackers.
- the usual idiots riding their race without any tactical nouse: Ben Healy, only ever interested in attacking and gaining nothing, Mollema or me first, ....

Just one extra tour of organised chase might have done it.
In this scenario Wout Van Aert would have been there and Remco could have pulled Pog back for Wout?
Loads of missed chances.

 

[KoopaCycling]

I'm seeing a lot of unwarranted Remco hate.
I would not call remco spoiled. Sure he might throw a tantrum, but the kid works hard. Not too mention that anyone that comes back to this level after that crash will have put in the work. Remco could not walk at some point.

Did Remco help cohesion by getting angry, pulling to hard at times, to then drop all the way to the back on the peloton on purpose. No. But he was one of the few with the right idea. Work together to salvage the race. Inspired by his own desire to win (no doubt), but the right idea all the same. The rest just did not want to work together. Perhaps because unlike Remco they had already settled for 2nd place.

That said Remco's mentality might have indeed taken a blow this time around. He looked subdued in the post race interview. I have no doubt he'll bounce back though. That's what winners do, and remco remains a serial winner.

Now i'm hoping he'll win Lombardia, as that would be the perfect ending to his season. But i'm not havind delusions. On current form he's got a 5-10% chance against tadej at best in Lombardia.

 

[Peter von]

I'm seeing a lot of unwarranted Remco hate.
I would not call remco spoiled. Sure he might throw a tantrum, but the kid works hard. Not too mention that anyone that comes back to this level after that crash will have put in the work. Remco could not walk at some point.

Yeah, I think it's ok to be tired and frustrated when the race goes down the drains for him like that.

Remco had just done a great ITT* so he probably thought form was good, he wanted to race for the win, in a chasing group that was good riding for podium spots and even top 10.

*tbf that might be a pretty mid TT performance by Remco standards, kid is crazy against the clock!

 

[KenFiamingo]

I'm seeing a lot of unwarranted Remco hate.
I would not call remco spoiled. Sure he might throw a tantrum, but the kid works hard. Not too mention that anyone that comes back to this level after that crash will have put in the work. Remco could not walk at some point.

Did Remco help cohesion by getting angry, pulling to hard at times, to then drop all the way to the back on the peloton on purpose. No. But he was one of the few with the right idea. Work together to salvage the race. Inspired by his own desire to win (no doubt), but the right idea all the same. The rest just did not want to work together. Perhaps because unlike Remco they had already settled for 2nd place.

That said Remco's mentality might have indeed taken a blow this time around. He looked subdued in the post race interview. I have no doubt he'll bounce back though. That's what winners do, and remco remains a serial winner.

Now i'm hoping he'll win Lombardia, as that would be the perfect ending to his season. But i'm not havind delusions. On current form he's got a 5-10% chance against tadej at best in Lombardia.

I loved his fighting spirit. No 5 minutes of bad legs this time, but always relaunching himself after being on the verge of breaking. I also believe that being in defense is not a situation he's familiar with; usually he's the guy being chased or the guy molding the race into his favor.
The reality is that due to the Olympics he had 3 weeks of rest & training less than Pogacar. It clearly showed.
One can only hope Pogacar feels some decompression at Lombardia. If Remco could podium there, it would make for a great end of an excellent season.

 

[AmRacer]

The reality is that due to the Olympics he had 3 weeks of rest & training less than Pogacar.

So did Mathieu too. Didn't see him flapping arms.

 

[Berniece]

Sorry but what a joke

You are aware we have timestamps on our posts?

 

[KenFiamingo]

So did Mathieu too. Didn't see him flapping arms.

Mathieu did not race the Tour with the same intensity as Remco and therefor had a lot less fatigue in his body. Nor did he need to ride the Olympics TT one week after the Tour allowing him a 2 week tapering period to the Olympic road race.
Additionally, Remco also competed in the WCTT which cost him another week of training leading up to the WC road race.

But yes, let's pretend they both followed the same path to Zurich.

 

[Berniece]

Look, they didn't reel him back in because they couldn't. Belgium had been pacing the whole day and so didn't have the fire power to get back on terms. Holland was a lame duck. Everybody else was rightly expecting those two teams to do the work. Remco and Mattieu miscalculated spectacularly. Maybe they didn't have the legs to go with Pogacar from 100 km out. They certainly couldn't counter-attack and were even afraid to try until it was too late. No, the Slovenian inflicted a devestating psychological blow and it's a problem for them in the future. As Michael Woods put it simply: "When Tadej went, everyone was unable to follow. He's the best rider in the world".

I don't agree that Belgium had been pacing the whole day. Campenaerts had been pacing, the rest was just sitting in the wheel. It's not like they were taking turns. Belgium as a whole failed quite hard, in my opinion. I didn't see the race, but from what I read Evenepoel basically had no real help. I don't understand why a couple of strong teams (Belgium, Netherlands, France, GB) didn't decide to just take turns, keep the gap not too big, instead of trying to reel him back immediately and blowing yourself up. It was dumb, and one of the reasons racing without earpieces is silly.

 

[Eddy Evenepoel]

Look, they didn't reel him back in because they couldn't. Belgium had been pacing the whole day and so didn't have the fire power to get back on terms. Holland was a lame duck. Everybody else was rightly expecting those two teams to do the work.

I think it’s fully possible to criticize Belgium without taking anything away from Pogacar being the clearly the strongest rider.

When Belgium went to the front with 6 guys or so and rode for one lap they stabilized the gap and even closed it a bit in the flatter section. Then one climb later they were all gone and Remco was alone in a 20 man group with 70 km to go, which lead Remco (and Mathieu) into starting stupid attacks too early.

I think it’s fair to expect riders like Van Gils, Benoot and Wellens to be stronger than what they were here, based on how good they normally are, and if 2 of them had made that 20 man group, that for example riders like Hoelgaard and Wandahl were able to make, at the top and had been pulling until the finish line the last 50 km of the race could’ve looked very different.

A 100k effort from the WC is historical and Pogacar was absolutely insane. But I think everyone more or less agree with that not being the perfect tactic (even if they executed it perfectly with Tratnik) and that weaker riders could’ve challenged him if the supposed strong team of Belgium actually was strong.

 

[AmRacer]

Mathieu did not race the Tour with the same intensity as Remco and therefor had a lot less fatigue in his body. Nor did he need to ride the Olympics TT one week after the Tour allowing him a 2 week tapering period to the Olympic road race.
Additionally, Remco also competed in the WCTT which cost him another week of training leading up to the WC road race.

But yes, let's pretend they both followed the same path to Zurich.

Remco lost becuse of 100 different reasons...as usual

 

[Berniece]

I think it’s fair to expect riders like Van Gils, Benoot and Wellens to be stronger than what they were here, based on how good they normally are, and if 2 of them had made that 20 man group, that for example riders like Hoelgaard and Wandahl were able to make, at the top and had been pulling until the finish line the last 50 km of the race could’ve looked very different.

Benoot can only ride like that for himself or Wout.
Wellens is a teammate of Pogacar and already made clear in interviews beforehand that Team Belgium shouldn't expect too much of him against Pogacar.
Van Gils not sure, he's not really used to riding for someone else

 

[Keldergoat]

I don't agree that Belgium had been pacing the whole day. Campenaerts had been pacing, the rest was just sitting in the wheel. It's not like they were taking turns. Belgium as a whole failed quite hard, in my opinion. I didn't see the race, but from what I read Evenepoel basically had no real help. I don't understand why a couple of strong teams (Belgium, Netherlands, France, GB) didn't decide to just take turns, keep the gap not too big, instead of trying to reel him back immediately and blowing yourself up. It was dumb, and one of the reasons racing without earpieces is silly.

Because it wasn't up for the Netherlands nor France to control the race. Evenepoel and Pogacar were seen by everyone as the big favourites, and Evenepoel got the favourite treatment that a rider of his stature, with such a strong team deserves. Most of us thought 4400 of am was a tad too much for MvdP prior to the race, and with Evenepoel's track record on LBL, having such a strong team you will get the weight of the race on your shoulders. Belgium just was quite underwhelming like you rightly point out.

 

[Miha81]

The problem was that nobody was ready or able to go with him from 100 km out. The rest is history and it will remain in their heads for a very long time. Tadej inflicted another psychological blow. Who can challenge him now?

I would not go with him if I was in their place either. I am Pog's fan but when he went with 100+ km to go I thought to myself that this is rather foolish of him.

I still think if the remaining of peloton worked together from that point on (and not attacking each other or waiting for other guy to pull) Pog would be caught or forced to abandon his solo action in last 50km. They did not and rest is history now.

 

[Extinction]

I would not go with him if I was in their place either. I am Pog's fan but when he went with 100+ km to go I thought to myself that this is rather foolish of him.

I still think if the remaining of peloton worked together from that point on (and not attacking each other or waiting for other guy to pull) Pog would be caught or forced to abandon his solo action in last 50km. They did not and rest is history now.

The point is not trying to go with him was a mistake, the race was lost. Normally when the chase group doesn't work well together, it's because they are tired. They weren't reeling him back and then the attacks came and it was start and stop. Panic ensued and Pog cruiser home not to be seen again.

 

[Extinction]

I think it’s fully possible to criticize Belgium without taking anything away from Pogacar being the clearly the strongest rider.

When Belgium went to the front with 6 guys or so and rode for one lap they stabilized the gap and even closed it a bit in the flatter section. Then one climb later they were all gone and Remco was alone in a 20 man group with 70 km to go, which lead Remco (and Mathieu) into starting stupid attacks too early.

I think it’s fair to expect riders like Van Gils, Benoot and Wellens to be stronger than what they were here, based on how good they normally are, and if 2 of them had made that 20 man group, that for example riders like Hoelgaard and Wandahl were able to make, at the top and had been pulling until the finish line the last 50 km of the race could’ve looked very different.

A 100k effort from the WC is historical and Pogacar was absolutely insane. But I think everyone more or less agree with that not being the perfect tactic (even if they executed it perfectly with Tratnik) and that weaker riders could’ve challenged him if the supposed strong team of Belgium actually was strong.

Evidently Pog was able to keep the pace high enough that it broke Belgium and then the chase lost organization and then the failed attacks to try and bridge up ensued. I think when Pog went Remco and Mattieu got psyched out. They were afraid to blow up if they tried to follow. But as I said before the race, when Pog attacks Remco's got to go with him, even at the risk of blowing up, because you can't give him a lead.

 

[Miha81]

The point is not trying to go with him was a mistake, the race was lost.

I think most of them if not all would blow up sooner or later if they followed an attack at that stage. But that is my opinion. From this perspective I think riding in peloton to wheel him in was right decision at the time which kinda proved wrong as things went along (if that makes sense).