Teams & Riders The Remco Evenepoel is the next Eddy Merckx thread

[AmRacer]

If you want to change the title there's a poll for you!

Maybe in the future, but probably not.

 

[Oldermanish]

I'm seeing a lot of unwarranted Remco hate.
I would not call remco spoiled. Sure he might throw a tantrum, but the kid works hard. Not too mention that anyone that comes back to this level after that crash will have put in the work. Remco could not walk at some point.

Did Remco help cohesion by getting angry, pulling to hard at times, to then drop all the way to the back on the peloton on purpose. No. But he was one of the few with the right idea. Work together to salvage the race. Inspired by his own desire to win (no doubt), but the right idea all the same. The rest just did not want to work together. Perhaps because unlike Remco they had already settled for 2nd place.

That said Remco's mentality might have indeed taken a blow this time around. He looked subdued in the post race interview. I have no doubt he'll bounce back though. That's what winners do, and remco remains a serial winner.

Now i'm hoping he'll win Lombardia, as that would be the perfect ending to his season. But i'm not havind delusions. On current form he's got a 5-10% chance against tadej at best in Lombardia.

This analysis smacks of the situation where Remco won his WC. One thing he did do: he refers to Pogacar's ride as "alien" when poor tactics helped Tadej. That poor sportsman inference along with his behavior set him back on the maturity scale by about 3 years. That's a real shame considering the incredible comeback year he's enjoyed.
By the way.....Eddy just said Pogacar has surpassed him as the greatest. No references to "extraterrestrial or alien"; just the greatest. Remco needs to continue progressing as himself; not denigrate his opponents.

 

[KoopaCycling]

This analysis smacks of the situation where Remco won his WC. One thing he did do: he refers to Pogacar's ride as "alien" when poor tactics helped Tadej. That poor sportsman inference along with his behavior set him back on the maturity scale by about 3 years. That's a real shame considering the incredible comeback year he's enjoyed.
By the way.....Eddy just said Pogacar has surpassed him as the greatest. No references to "extraterrestrial or alien"; just the greatest. Remco needs to continue progressing as himself; not denigrate his opponents.

The article I read said that merckx thinks of him as the greatest of his (tadej his) generation. I doubt Eddy Merkcx would ever say anyone is better than him. Dude loved competing. No way he would throw in the towel without racing. At least that is what i believe. If you can point me to an article in which he says pogacar is better than him, i'll be mindboggled but will have to accept that strangeness.

Also everyone is referring to Tadej as an alien at times. Strange you suddenly knock remco for it. especially since he meant it as a compliment.

 

[James M]

This analysis smacks of the situation where Remco won his WC. One thing he did do: he refers to Pogacar's ride as "alien" when poor tactics helped Tadej. That poor sportsman inference along with his behavior set him back on the maturity scale by about 3 years. That's a real shame considering the incredible comeback year he's enjoyed.
By the way.....Eddy just said Pogacar has surpassed him as the greatest. No references to "extraterrestrial or alien"; just the greatest. Remco needs to continue progressing as himself; not denigrate his opponents.

I usually always agree with you but here I stick up for Evenepoel I feel he gets hate for no reason sometimes. Okei the behaviour in the race but take into account he is a winner and that it is in the race itself when emotion are high(you want him to be like in a race scenario without the gesture granted but thats minor) not very mature etc but I would prefer emotions/winner instinct over not caring, its not that bad.

And for the comment about Pog while yeah Eddy himselfs declare its obvious Pog is better than himself and so does everyone else, the comment Evenepoel made I dont think he meant anything other than posetive about it but thats just me Evenepoel said Pogacar is levels above anyone. Pogacar is a terrestrial, the level he has reached, can critic for many things I personally just dont find those two things to be that bad. I only care about em as athletes and its clear Evenepoel has more than normal respect for Pogacar. In a race scenario and right after I just think you have to give em some sort of hall pass when emotions runs high and arm flips can be said about Pog, Mvdp too its not that big of a deal imo this particular thing, ive seen more other things about him i get more the critics about his personality but not this.

 

[Berniece]

Insecure users don't dare amend the thread title.

It’s a tongue in cheek joke that was never meant to be serious. The only people taking it seriously are those that don’t like him.

 

[peterfin]

This analysis smacks of the situation where Remco won his WC. One thing he did do: he refers to Pogacar's ride as "alien" when poor tactics helped Tadej. That poor sportsman inference along with his behavior set him back on the maturity scale by about 3 years. That's a real shame considering the incredible comeback year he's enjoyed.
By the way.....Eddy just said Pogacar has surpassed him as the greatest. No references to "extraterrestrial or alien"; just the greatest. Remco needs to continue progressing as himself; not denigrate his opponents.

Do you have a link to the interview? I wonder why there is again so much commotion about his behaviour. In the Sporza interview I heard him say that if anyone deserved the title it was Pogacar because of his outstanding season. He doesn't denigrate his opponents. It must be poor choice of words.

 

[Eddy Evenepoel]

I only saw Belgian (and partly Dutch) team willing to pull with 100km to go. I can not know the state of riders in peloton at the moment Pog attacked. But would the chase blown if they would not start attacking each other with 70+km to go and instead work on more coherent chase? Maybe. Maybe not.

I think Remco started attacking with 70 km to go because he saw his team vanish and that disrupted the rest of the chase for atleast the next 20-25 km. If one or two of the Belgian doms were stronger it could’ve looked different.

But as long as the best rider won it doesn’t make much difference to me. Just as when Remco has won many of his biggest wins, sometimes the chasers are being too weak and too stupid. That doesn’t take anything away from the winner.

 

[Berniece]

This analysis smacks of the situation where Remco won his WC. One thing he did do: he refers to Pogacar's ride as "alien" when poor tactics helped Tadej. That poor sportsman inference along with his behavior set him back on the maturity scale by about 3 years. That's a real shame considering the incredible comeback year he's enjoyed.
By the way.....Eddy just said Pogacar has surpassed him as the greatest. No references to "extraterrestrial or alien"; just the greatest. Remco needs to continue progressing as himself; not denigrate his opponents.

That’s a very unfair assessment of his interview. He said Pogacar is the most deserving winner of the WC jersey this season.

 

[The fridge in the blue trees]

But he was one of the few with the right idea. Work together to salvage the race.

That wasn't his idea, he was the first to attack, right after the climb where his whole team was dropped.

Belgium as a whole failed quite hard, in my opinion. I didn't see the race, but from what I read Evenepoel basically had no real help. I don't understand why a couple of strong teams (Belgium, Netherlands, France, GB) didn't decide to just take turns, keep the gap not too big, instead of trying to reel him back immediately and blowing yourself up. It was dumb, and one of the reasons racing without earpieces is silly.

Well, one mistake probably in retrospect was not to help the Slovens after the De Plus/Tratnik group went. Neither of them looked overly likely to win from that group, plus it was clear that Slovenia wants to win with Pogacar and Belgium with double-double. Help Slovenia to bring the group back close. One of the reasons Pogacar went so unreasonably early was to escape the probable chaos of the next lap. His team was done, Novak with the last pull, only Roglic left, they had pulled back quite some time to the group alone. If Belgium helps, they might be close enough to jump right into the group, perfect. And then Remco probably would be placed better in that situation. If still at 2' Pogacar might wait a lap, he sees Belgium helping, he can expect them to continue in the next lap, avoiding further attacks from the second and third tier riders.

Riding after Pogacar went? That clearly was only Belgiums job. France? GB? Who for? The Netherlands? After the Olympics where Belgium with 2 strong leaders refused to ride for the longest time... the Dutch would be stupid to now ride here. They knew Van der Poel had pretty good chances, but they also knew that unlike in Paris he wasn't expected to be the man to beat. (While Belgium was the team to beat) Payback time. No, Belgium had to ride that, which they did. And they did the right thing there, get as close as possible, give Pogacar 2' and he takes Tratnik with him another lap, no sense in that. Down to 30" was right, the problem was what happened after:

1) Belgium team blowing up. Simply shouldn't happen after pulling for 20km or so. And pretty sure not all of them were pulling anyway.
2) The big mistake then was Remco attacking when he did. There was a group with 2 or 3 Belgians riding in front 10" or so back, let them come back, let them finish another lap, even if it means being 30" slower, and then start the festivities a lap later. Hoping to get away in a small group, that can actually work together. Remco, Van der Poel, Hirschi, that could work, all 3 can see ways to beat the others, all 3 know that first you have to get Pogacar. A big group like it was there will never really work, REmco trying to make it smaller, when he did, ok, making it smaller makes sense, but not when you have the Belgian hordes a few seconds back, then waiting would make more sense. No radios, he still does to have at least an idea that some of his teammates can't be that far back.

Earpieces? Slovenia managed to tell Tratnik to wait pretty well. Without earpieces. I don't suppose Belgium had less people standing on the roadside than Slovenia.

I think it’s fair to expect riders like Van Gils, Benoot and Wellens to be stronger than what they were here, based on how good they normally are, and if 2 of them had made that 20 man group, that for example riders like Hoelgaard and Wandahl were able to make, at the top and had been pulling until the finish line the last 50 km of the race could’ve looked very different.

Yep. Not sure if Wellens though, he's been pretty bad in long races for almost his whole career. This year was decent in the north I think, but that was basically the first time ever he did well in long races? Benoot definitely, Van Gils maybe not his spring form anymore, could sort of be expected, but still, yeah, should be better. The drunkard Patrick will have lots to say soon in his column I suppose... But yes, team definitely not performing as expected. Even if a bunch of them were not too far back when Remco decided to go in the worst moment possible.

 

[KoopaCycling]

I'm sorry, but i really want a link to that eddy merckx interview. a quick search has only brought me the article off le Parisien. And in that he clearly states that he thinks Pogacar is the best of his generation. Not that he believes Pogacar is better than him. Closest it comes to that, is him stating he would not have dared to attack from 100 km out like that.

 

[peterfin]

I'm sorry, but i really want a link to that eddy merckx interview. a quick search has only brought me the article off le Parisien. And in that he clearly states that he thinks Pogacar is the best of his generation. Not that he believes Pogacar is better than him. Closest it comes to that, is him stating he would not have dared to attack from 100 km out like that.

‘It’s obvious that he is now above me’ – Eddy Merckx hails Tadej Pogačar after Worlds exhibition

Belgian suggests Pogačar is now the greatest cyclist of all time

www.cyclingnews.com

 

[ArnaudVDL]

Earpieces? Slovenia managed to tell Tratnik to wait pretty well. Without earpieces. I don't suppose Belgium had less people standing on the roadside than Slovenia.

I think I read somewhere that it was a motorbike with a chalk board that communicated it. Still, your point stands.

 

[KoopaCycling]

‘It’s obvious that he is now above me’ – Eddy Merckx hails Tadej Pogačar after Worlds exhibition

Belgian suggests Pogačar is now the greatest cyclist of all time

www.cyclingnews.com

Oh wow, have to admit, it surprises me to see that. I know Merckx handed people their flowers, but would have never guessed such a competitive person would make quite a statement like that. I kindly disagree with him (for now).

Don't get me wrong, Pogacar can become the goat. But he ain't there yet for me.
For me I still got eddy merckx and hinault in front of Pogacar. I mean if he continues this momentum, he'll become the goat. But Merckx and Hinault careers still hold the edge for me.

A couple of more wins and he surpasses the badger for me. But Eddy still some ways off imo. Pogacar gonna have his work cut out to put him ahead of merckx in my mind.

 

[mlescanojr]

Oh wow, have to admit, it surprises me to see that. I know Merckx handed people their flowers, but would have never guessed such a competitive person would make quite a statement like that. I kindly disagree with him (for now).

Don't get me wrong, Pogacar can become the goat. But he ain't there yet for me.
For me I still got eddy merckx and hinault in front of Pogacar. I mean if he continues this momentum, he'll become the goat. But Merckx and Hinault careers still hold the edge for me.

I think, for Merckx, what he tried to say is: Pogacar at the peak of his powers, is better than me.

Everyone can agree that Pogi needs to win a lot more to be considered the GOAT.

 

[Oldermanish]

I'm sorry, but i really want a link to that eddy merckx interview. a quick search has only brought me the article off le Parisien. And in that he clearly states that he thinks Pogacar is the best of his generation. Not that he believes Pogacar is better than him. Closest it comes to that, is him stating he would not have dared to attack from 100 km out like that.

His direct quote was a feature on front page, this website.

‘It’s obvious that he is now above me’ – Eddy Merckx hails Tadej Pogačar after Worlds exhibition​

 

[Oldermanish]

Oh wow, have to admit, it surprises me to see that. I know Merckx handed people their flowers, but would have never guessed such a competitive person would make quite a statement like that. I kindly disagree with him (for now).

Don't get me wrong, Pogacar can become the goat. But he ain't there yet for me.
For me I still got eddy merckx and hinault in front of Pogacar. I mean if he continues this momentum, he'll become the goat. But Merckx and Hinault careers still hold the edge for me.

A couple of more wins and he surpasses the badger for me. But Eddy still some ways off imo. Pogacar gonna have his work cut out to put him ahead of merckx in my mind.

It's good to have an interest.
But when you disagree with Eddy about who is better than him you'll understand why most would take him at his word. Most every competitor exposed to Pogacar has said the same thing but time is fluid and things can change....

 

[KoopaCycling]

It's good to have an interest.
But when you disagree with Eddy about who is better than him you'll understand why most would take him at his word. Most every competitor exposed to Pogacar has said the same thing but time is fluid and things can change....

I'm sorry, but Merckx career achievements at the moment still surpass Pogacar. And that is what i'll judge him on. As everyone is a child of their time.

Merckx: 11 GT, 3 WC, 19 monuments and a slew of other races.
Pogacar: 4 GT, 1 WC, 6 monuments and a slew of other races.

Pogacar only 26, so he got time. But clearly he ain't there yet. At least not for me.

(Also i tend to just go to the forum, not the actual website.)

 

[Salvarani]

Actually I thought VdP was very gracious in defeat, and it seems Pogacar likes him a lot.

They interacting and seems to have shared admiration for each other by all accounts. Pog is good friends with Philipsen as well. Bling. He seems to have a good relationship with many riders.

 

[Armchair Cyclist]

Bunch of accusations and denials moved to clinic

 

[Panda Claws]

Regardless of Pogacar, this has still been a good season for Evenepoel despite the crash.

He'll have a storied career if he keeps this up even when eclipsed by Pogacar.

Curious to see how he'll be in Lombardia. I'd enjoy it if he shows that he can come back to win it and snatch a podium.

 

[KenFiamingo]

Regardless of Pogacar, this has still been a good season for Evenepoel despite the crash.

He'll have a storied career if he keeps this up even when eclipsed by Pogacar.

Curious to see how he'll be in Lombardia. I'd enjoy it if he shows that he can come back to win it and snatch a podium.

Idd, apart from Paris-Nice which he fumbled in stage 6, and despite the crash in Itzulia, he once again did deliver on his objectives. Hopefully Emilia or Lombardia become the cherry on the cake.

 

[Berniece]

Idd, apart from Paris-Nice which he fumbled in stage 6, and despite the crash in Itzulia, he once again did deliver on his objectives. Hopefully Emilia or Lombardia become the cherry on the cake.

People have short memories, his season was already successful after finishing on the podium in the Tour and winning the double at the Olympics

 

[Red Rick]

No, they could not.

VdP told in the interview they were on the limit, that's why they could not bring Pogacar back.

And let's not fool ourselves, Pogacar relaxed in the last km, that's why the 35s difference.

But you can try to diminish Pogacar feat.

He controlled the difference for almost 80 km, when he attacked after Tratnik pull.

Why were they on the limit?

Because the started attacking behind Pogacar at just under 3 laps to go. They should've kept domestiques on board the extra lap

 

[mlescanojr]

Why were they on the limit?

Because the started attacking behind Pogacar at just under 3 laps to go. They should've kept domestiques on board the extra lap

Yes, I agree with you.

Pogacar attack caused mayhem in the peloton.

It's easy for us to tell now the best course of action, but in the middle of war, Remco did what he thought it was correct, he burnt his domestiques and he was left alone.

 

[Oldermanish]

Why were they on the limit?

Because the started attacking behind Pogacar at just under 3 laps to go. They should've kept domestiques on board the extra lap

They raced like amateur Masters. No one wants to work with anyone else and give up the shot at second place. Or third....top ten...whatever.
Keeping domestiques that also have trade team affiliations has always been the wild card in WC. If they don't have a serious candidate for a placing on their national team and their trade team "leader" sucks; why ride at all?