Teams & Riders The Remco Evenepoel is the next Eddy Merckx thread

[dicanio_michael]

I disagree, the team should have been telling him not to worry about losing a bit of time on the descent both in the pre-race tactical briefing and before the climb as a reminder.

If they did do that and Remco ignored the advice and pushed beyond his bike handling abilities then it’s a different case.

How did you know the team had not done so ?
How did you know he pushed beyond his abilities rather than pure accident ?

It was meaningless to talk about this afterward. As Lefevere said, luckily he is alive and nothing else matters. I hope we focus on his recovery and come back. No need to point fingers on anybody.

 

[Naico]

I know we like to speculate a lot (me included at times), but (partly) blaming his team for the crash seems pretty unfounded to me.
They prepared for that course like no other, knowing very well it was his first time. With a specific focus on those descents.
And the team actually told Remco to keep some distance in that descent saying a small gap is ok.
The crash happened and that’s a result of different things, his inexperience, fact that the descent comes at a crucial moment in the race, Nibali setting a record time yesterday,..Apparently right before the corner (can’t see it on the images) the two riders in front of him made an odd move which startled Remco.
But I can’t see how you can blame the team.

 

[Red Rick]

But I can’t see how you can blame the team.

It's very simple. Remco crashed and now someone must get the blame.

I don't think DQS would get this tactically wrong. I'm not sure Evenepoel was taking dumb risks, cause even when you're riding a descent without them, sometimes riders make mistakes.

 

[The Hegelian]

That said, two crashes as the ones we have seen with Remco and Fabio are luckily rare, and I don't think I ever witnessed something quite so scary in the many, many, many years I was watching as a child and probably not since then, either. Okay, I'm told I watched the Tour in 1995 but I don't have any recollection of that, specifically not about Casartelli's crash.

I was watching the Giro stage where Weylandt died but I don't think we saw the crash. We did see him lying on the ground, I think.

I also remember an incident where I think it was Pereiro who rode out over the mountain side but nothing happened to him. And the same with Augustyn but we could quickly see he was alright. The same goes for Ullrich.

I didn't see Gilbert's crash in 2018 live as I was standing on the final mountain of the day but I think that would maybe have elicited the same fear as Remco's and Fabio's incidents.

I remember Fabio in'95 tdf really well. Horrible, horrible stuff.

 

[wheresmybrakes]

Maybe it's because folk have hyped this boy up so much and enjoyed his winning and racing style, that they can't come to terms with the fact he f***ed up trying to chase the god of descending and is now unavailable for them to watch for the rest of the season so are looking for someone to blame. I wouldn't be surprised to see him on the bike even competing before the end of the season and then folk will be calling him the next messiah, better healer than Jesus (whoever he is). Good luck to the lad in his recovery.

 

[Gigs_98]

Honestly Logic, i like you, but i think you're going a bit far out on a limb here. Lefevre can't hold a rider's hand all day long. Evenepoel is young, but everyone old enough to ride a bike, whether it's in a race or for fun, in the end is responsible for their own safety (not counting freak incidents like what happened to Schachmann).

The team could have reconned the descent or something (or maybe they did anyway?), but telling someone 'take it easy following nibali' seems pointless to me. The guy on the road knows best, or should know best, how fast to go.

I honestly think Logic has a point. People were blaming Kruijswijk for following Nibali before his crash in 2016 when he didn't have to. This situation has some similarities just that it's clear that an unexperienced 20 y.o. in hist first major race is not just gonna drop from the group without a fight. A reminder by his team at that point not to overdo it would have been the right thing to do.

Anyway, whether you agree with Logic or not, I think it's definitely a legit opinion (proven by the fact that the discussion has been picked up once again on this page) so what I really don't get is all the sh*t he got for stating it. Like, people were genuinely trying to attack him personally for starting a discussion on a forum. Wtf? Props to Logic for staying cool though

 

[Red Rick]

Not sure the team keep his feet grounded with how they talk about Evenepoel.

I actually think that given team strengths on the Muro, it was a mistake to not attack there if he was really feeling great

 

[Blanco]

Remco is riding with the big boys now, it's a serious racing, on the highest possible level.
His team has an obligation to tell him when some part of the road is dangerous, like this decent (which I believe they did). They could also do the recon of this part (which I also think they did). They could even tell him to not put the pressure on himself on that decent too much, considering his age and experience (which I think Bramati did).
And that's about it.

 

[LesDiablesRouges]

Not sure the team keep his feet grounded with how they talk about Evenepoel.

I actually think that given team strengths on the Muro, it was a mistake to not attack there if he was really feeling great

Nah, tactically Deceunick did exactly what they wanted to do. Obviously crashing wasn’t part of the plan. I think that had he made it down safely that he was the favorite to win. Trek was toasted and he would have gone on Civiglio.

 

[Gigs_98]

I think QS realized that with how strong Remco had been this year he was a common threat and the remaining group would have worked together to catch him. Easy to ride away from a disorganized chase, much harder to ride away from a group of 5 or 6 perfectly working together. Also with his descending he probably feared to get caught by Fuglsang or Nibali anyway.

I think, if he really was that strong, just waiting for Civiglio was the right approach. That makes me wonder though why they decided to waste their whole team so early.

 

[BlueRoads]

Maybe they really, really told him not to over-do it. And he still went hard, and that's why he said sorry. But that's speculation. I agree that in any case they should tell him so, but whether they did I don't know.
Anyway, it was not his "fault" in the sense that he did something bad. It was simply a mistake, a wrong decision by a rider. Happens.

 

[Naico]

I think QS realized that with how strong Remco had been this year he was a common threat and the remaining group would have worked together to catch him. Easy to ride away from a disorganized chase, much harder to ride away from a group of 5 or 6 perfectly working together. Also with his descending he probably feared to get caught by Fuglsang or Nibali anyway.

I think, if he really was that strong, just waiting for Civiglio was the right approach. That makes me wonder though why they decided to waste their whole team so early.

Agreed. To me the plan was perfect. Yes, a rider or two extra could have helped but the race was very hard. The team rode very hard and it resulted in a very early battle among just a few riders. Not attacking before that descent also makes sense. That would have brought extra pressure to go hard in the descent. In handsight you can say now that it actually might have been better because he'd be alone and not pressured to keep up, but I still feel like waiting till the next climb after reducing the peloton and after having done the dangerous descents, really makes the most sense. It would have been a man-to-man battle and that's exactly what Remco and the team wanted.

 

[Naico]

Maybe they really, really told him not to over-do it. And he still went hard, and that's why he said sorry. But that's speculation. I agree that in any case they should tell him so, but whether they did I don't know.
Anyway, it was not his "fault" in the sense that he did something bad. It was simply a mistake, a wrong decision by a rider. Happens.

Yes that's exactly what the team said over the radio. The team stated as such afterwards. Like you said: a mistake was made, he got startled and that unfortunately resulted in that afwul crash. The fact that he was so sorry afterwards also hints that. He knew he made a mistake and actually felt more sorry for the team than he did towards himself.

 

[topcat]

I think the QS plan was to make the race hard and for Remco to attack on the Civiglio. When Nibali attacked the descent, I thought he was trying to do a 50 km solo just to make the season a little bit more weird. Only Trek knew then that Nibs didn't have the legs and was doing this for the team. We don't know what would have happened but Remco wouldn't have had it easy with Fuglsang.

 

[Naico]

I honestly think Logic has a point. People were blaming Kruijswijk for following Nibali before his crash in 2016 when he didn't have to. This situation has some similarities just that it's clear that an unexperienced 20 y.o. in hist first major race is not just gonna drop from the group without a fight. A reminder by his team at that point not to overdo it would have been the right thing to do.

Anyway, whether you agree with Logic or not, I think it's definitely a legit opinion (proven by the fact that the discussion has been picked up once again on this page) so what I really don't get is all the sh*t he got for stating it. Like, people were genuinely trying to attack him personally for starting a discussion on a forum. Wtf? Props to Logic for staying cool though

Nobody on this forum should get any type of sh*t for having an opinion. That's for sure.
But sometimes it seems like it's hard to agree to disagree
Compared to other forums though and despite some teasing and the occasional back-and-forths i'd say this is generally a class act platform!

 

[dutchdescent]

No need to dwell on a single point made 3 days ago forever.. it may be valid, it may not be. whatever. It won't reverse the outcome. Let's move on and hope everyone learns from it.

 

[Red Rick]

I think QS realized that with how strong Remco had been this year he was a common threat and the remaining group would have worked together to catch him. Easy to ride away from a disorganized chase, much harder to ride away from a group of 5 or 6 perfectly working together. Also with his descending he probably feared to get caught by Fuglsang or Nibali anyway.

I think, if he really was that strong, just waiting for Civiglio was the right approach. That makes me wonder though why they decided to waste their whole team so early.

I thought the narrative is they wouldn't have caught him. Really with how scattered the group was on Sormano groups are reduced to pairs and trios. Alternatively, if you can just win you really dgaf about losing a few seconds in the descent. Also, didn't he start the descent in front and then let himself get passed on the flatter section?

 

[VDB44]

I think the QS plan was to make the race hard and for Remco to attack on the Civiglio. When Nibali attacked the descent, I thought he was trying to do a 50 km solo just to make the season a little bit more weird. Only Trek knew then that Nibs didn't have the legs and was doing this for the team. We don't know what would have happened but Remco wouldn't have had it easy with Fuglsang.

He told his team he had his best legs ever, so I think he would have won quite easy, remember how strong he already was compared to Fuglsang in Poland. But all that doesn't matter. Just hope he can return to racing at full strenght next year.

 

[Red Rick]

Saying you were gonna win after crashing out, if anything, is mostly disrespectful to the actual winner.

 

[Armchair cyclist]

It seems unreasonable to me to say that the team put undue pressure on RE: it is not as thought this was his only opportunity for success in his career with DQS, or the result that would make or break the team's season.

What pressure of expectation was put on him came from the media, and, by extension, from us, fans.

 

[Red Rick]

It seems unreasonable to me to say that the team put undue pressure on RE: it is not as thought this was his only opportunity for success in his career with DQS, or the result that would make or break the team's season.

What pressure of expectation was put on him came from the media, and, by extension, from us, fans.

He or his team have not done anything to temper expectations either. They are actively feeding the hype.

 

[Gigs_98]

Saying you were gonna win after crashing out, if anything, is mostly disrespectful to the actual winner.

I like Remco and I believe he would have won, but I have to agree with you. You don't hear Contador and Froome claiming they would have won the 2014 tour even though they might think so themselves.

 

[VDB44]

Saying you were gonna win after crashing out, if anything, is mostly disrespectful to the actual winner.

It's not like he said that in an interview, he just told someone from the team he had super legs, if they tell the press, that's not so smart. But it's not disrespectful from Remco's part, if you see the level he was on, I do believe he had the legs to win and it's normal he tells his team.

 

[CyclistAbi]

Just seen the video of the crash. Sad to see it happen. Not sure exactly on why it happened. Doesn't look like Remco was going too fast. Likely he got surprised by the bridge getting narrower, compared to the road, and he might be too close to the road edge, to save the situation. Would likely be nice if some sort of a sign would be there, telling the riders the road will narrow. I agree that such young riders are under too big pressure of win, including Bernal. In cycling 25 is still considered to be young!

P.S. Get well Remco and for sure we will get to see some greatness in the following seasons.

 

[Red Rick]

Just seen the video of the crash. Sad to see it happen. Not sure exactly on why it happened. Doesn't look like Remco was going too fast. Likely he got surprised by the bridge getting narrower, compared to the road, and he might be too close to the road edge, to save the situation. Would likely be nice if some sort of a sign would be there, telling the riders the road will narrow. I agree that such young riders are under too big pressure of win, including Bernal. In cycling 25 is still considered to be young!

P.S. Get well Remco and for sure we will get to see some greatness in the following seasons.

To be perfeclty honest, accidents like these are a really big part of the reason why there's pressure on young riders to win when they can. Careers are cut short or hampered by misfortune much more often in cycling than in other sports, so it's essential to make hay while the sun shines.