Teams & Riders The Remco Evenepoel is the next Eddy Merckx thread

[Jumbo Visma Fan :)]

You would think he would also put a more contested effort in the sprint, then again absolute no help in the finale.

 

[peterfin]

Sometimes it looks like he is racing with an egg in his pants as they say here in Flanders.

 

[Berniece]

You would think he would also put a more contested effort in the sprint, then again absolute no help in the finale.

Think it’s a bit like Roglic where they focused on longer climbs instead of acceleration

 

[Snake]

He loooked cooked in the end

 

[ppanther92]

Way better I have to say. Still not as confident in positioning as others but certainly attentive today as opposed to for example Roglic who was simply lucky that it came back together (also think Roglic doesn’t have it this Tour but OT here).

 

[KoopaCycling]

Stage was mostly a nothing burger, Vingegaard & Pogacar get a couple of bonus seconds. Rodriguez and Thomas lose some time. Mas, Almeida, Jorgenson, Roglic, Skjelmose, Lipowitz on same time. Barring crashes I think that might already be the names for the top 11 in this TdF

As a Remco fan, you always do end up scratching your head at some of his tactics.

Bad position at the start.Then decides to go full gas mode on the descent for no reason at all when the rest are trying to recuperate as much as possible. Then goes after Vingegaard, instead of letting Pogacar close that gap. He is also in second or third too long and jumps when he should not jump. Meanwhile Pogacar and Vingegaard are recuperating and getting ready to move back up when it matters again. I understand him not trying at the sprint though. Dauphiné taught him he's probably slower than MVDP, Pogacar and Vingegaard. 4th gets nothing, and even if he sneaks in front of Vingegaard, those bonus sec. won't matter much. It's just weird seeing him ride second gain tactics when he should be focused on the long haul. I say he rode the final to prominently and too wasteful energy wise. Both cause of bad positioning, strange tactics, and weirdly timed full gas mode.

Just position yourself at the front, then (try and) pick Pogacar wheel & ride it in during the last few kms. Save as much energy as you can. There was no need to try and get a couple of seconds on the people in the second group. Those handful of seconds are never going to make the difference in a GT.

I mean like yesterday , this stage won't mean much when all is said and done. And i'm just nitpicking. But personally I find today more head scratching than yesterday. I guess cause today speaks more about his style of racing. And don't get me wrong. I'm a Remco fan in part cause he rides agressive. But every now and then i feel like he should take a page out of Vingegaard and Roglic their books and only ride agressive when you have something to actually gain.

 

[Frobisher Bay]

Bit of a mixed bag today. Team was better, but he loses the wheel so easily and is just scared to bump his way to the front. Often he is in front at 5km before the hill, and then dwizzles off to 50th position when the clim finally starts.
Had his moment on the penultimate hill, looked good there, then even had a chance to try to go solo but finally looked cooked to me. Not the best of signs that he doesn't contest the sprint. I don't know, seems to me he's not 100%

 

[Berniece]

Bit of a mixed bag today. Team was better, but he loses the wheel so easily and is just scared to bump his way to the front. Often he is in front at 5km before the hill, and then dwizzles off to 50th position when the clim finally starts.
Had his moment on the penultimate hill, looked good there, then even had a chance to try to go solo but finally looked cooked to me. Not the best of signs that he doesn't contest the sprint. I don't know, seems to me he's not 100%

I think it has always been like this, but when your team is the strongest they set the pace for you. That’s not the case now. When he won his LBL editions his team was always pushing to go as hard as possible, it’s easier then

 

[KoopaCycling]

Well tomorrow there might be wind again ^^

At 11,7 km or so to go Remco was in fine position behind a Soudal teammates . At 10 km he had lost some places but was sitting in Pogacar wheel with maybe 1 teammate around him. At 9,7 km Pogacar takes the bend on the inner side and exits around position 15th. Remco takes the corner outside and exits around position 30. So basically one corner right in front of that climb ruined his position and salvaged Pogacar positioning.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Bit of a mixed bag today. Team was better, but he loses the wheel so easily and is just scared to bump his way to the front. Often he is in front at 5km before the hill, and then dwizzles off to 50th position when the clim finally starts.
Had his moment on the penultimate hill, looked good there, then even had a chance to try to go solo but finally looked cooked to me. Not the best of signs that he doesn't contest the sprint. I don't know, seems to me he's not 100%

Yeah, he doesn't seem like he is 100% yet.

 

[Salvarani]

Bit of a mixed bag today. Team was better, but he loses the wheel so easily and is just scared to bump his way to the front. Often he is in front at 5km before the hill, and then dwizzles off to 50th position when the clim finally starts.
Had his moment on the penultimate hill, looked good there, then even had a chance to try to go solo but finally looked cooked to me. Not the best of signs that he doesn't contest the sprint. I don't know, seems to me he's not 100%

As been pointed out, the team does a good job bringing him to the front some time before positioning and the fight intensifies.

It is when it intensifies that seems to be the problem. His teammates cant do much about this problem... it is not like they could force him to hold the wheel. He has to fight for it. You see other riders bumping shoulders and just passing him by in the overhead. He loses 20-30 places in like the last km before the climb is about to start.

It is also telling that QS is always on the very edge and not in the middle. All to make it easier for Remco. Rather than being in the middle where the fight is worse and other teams have already positioned themselves. You have to be more comfortable with many riders around you. Better bike handler.

He managed quite alright in the end because the peloton had been reduced quite a bit from the first climb, where he was one of the last riders making the selection. He must have entered the first climb, when it was the full peloton, like in the triple-digits position-wise. He had to have made some effort to make it up to the 40th wheel. Lucky not to be caught behind the Milan (I think) crash.

So his legs seems very good to me. When the peloton was smaller he could move up quicker, showing good legs again. Even pulling and closing gaps back after it (maybe not the smartest move, after already spending energy on the climbs to get to the front each time).

His legs are good but he just makes it harder for himself. He is spending more energy and effort than he needs to. Maybe he just accepts this, since he feels safer for riding that way. Today it worked. No time loss. He didnt crash. It is not like he complains too much about others not helping or not having enough help from teammates. They are trying, as seen today. He just knows it is a weakness, I think.

It will potentially cost quite a bit though if he doesnt overcome it. Like yesterday or earlier in the year in LBL.

 

[EddyMazzoleni]

Yeah, he doesn't seem like he is 100% yet.

But on the harder climb he looked pretty good, beeing able to make up some places and then making the front split on Jorgenson push quite easliy. I think we will have to wait at least for stage 5 to have a better understanding of his condition

 

[KoopaCycling]

As been pointed out, the team does a good job bringing him to the front some time before positioning and the fight intensifies.

It is when it intensifies that seems to be the problem. His teammates cant do much about this problem... it is not like they could force him to hold the wheel. He has to fight for it. You see other riders bumping shoulders and just passing him by in the overhead. He loses 20-30 places in like the last km before the climb is about to start.

It is also telling that QS is always on the very edge and not in the middle. All to make it easier for Remco. Rather than being in the middle where the fight is worse and other teams have already positioned themselves. You have to be more comfortable with many riders around you. Better bike handler.

He managed quite alright in the end because the peloton had been reduced quite a bit from the first climb, where he was one of the last riders making the selection. He must have entered the first climb, when it was the full peloton, like in the triple-digits position-wise. He had to have made some effort to make it up to the 40th wheel. Lucky not to be caught behind the Milan (I think) crash.

So his legs seems very good to me. When the peloton was smaller he could move up quicker, showing good legs again. Even pulling and closing gaps back after it (maybe not the smartest move, after already spending energy on the climbs to get to the front each time).

His legs are good but he just makes it harder for himself. He is spending more energy and effort than he needs to. Maybe he just accepts this, since he feels safer for riding that way. Today it worked. No time loss. He didnt crash. It is not like he complains too much about others not helping or not having enough help from teammates. They are trying, as seen today. He just knows it is a weakness, I think.

It will potentially cost quite a bit though if he doesnt overcome it. Like yesterday or earlier in the year in LBL.

I do not fully agree with this. Sure a WVA, MVDP, Pogacar will hold the position just fine on their own. But a Roglic would not. Same for Evenepoel. If Soudal has a solid train (aka the money to buy said train), they can hold Remco in position. Soudal does not have this. I remember the Visma trains for Roglic in the tour he lost. Same with Sky and US Postal before that. So it can be countered by a solid team.

 

[Salvarani]

I do not fully agree with this. Sure a WVA, MVDP, Pogacar will hold the position just fine on their own. But a Roglic would not. Same for Evenepoel. If Soudal has a solid train (aka the money to buy said train), they can hold Remco in position. Soudal does not have this. I remember the Visma trains for Roglic in the tour he lost. Same with Sky and US Postal before that. So it can be countered by a solid team.

So all on the team? Gotcha

But today they brought him up. Still he lost position. In a reduced peloton.

 

[Didinho]

He looked cooked and/or didn’t attack because he made up a lot of places and made the front split. He countered Vingo so I think his feeling was good. Just not something extra anymore after losing the front all the time when it mattered. This won’t be a big issue in the mountains, now the whole peloton is fresh in the early stressy stages.

I’m expecting a strong TT. Maybe it’s good he doesn’t have a jersey already, more rest immediately after stages.

 

[KoopaCycling]

So all on the team? Gotcha

But today they brought him up. Still he lost position. In a reduced peloton.

Not what I said. I said that if it's a persistent Remco problem (positioning), that it is something to be countered by a strong support team.

Also they brought him up, but were not strong enough to stay there themselves. A strong support team brings him up, stays there, continues to surround him and protect his positioning.

Again, Remco unable to hold his position is a weakness of him. But if it's impossible to rectify that through (mental) training, than the other solution is a stronger support team. That's just the reality.

At that point the question becomes is Remco a valid enough team leader to obtain such a powerful support team. Which we all know only the wealthiest teams can afford. Ineos and Red Bull seemed to think so a year or so ago. I say if he podium again i would agree on that. And if I'm Ineos i'll invest in Remco with a top 5. He seems a definite upgrade on Rodriguez. And Thomas (who i believe will ride a fantastic tour) is on his last go-around.

 

[peterfin]

Not what I said. I said that if it's a persistent Remco problem (positioning), that it is something to be countered by a strong support team.

Also they brought him up, but were not strong enough to stay there themselves. A strong support team brings him up, stays there, continues to surround him and protect his positioning.

Again, Remco unable to hold his position is a weakness of him. But if it's impossible to rectify that through (mental) training, than the other solution is a stronger support team. That's just the reality.

At that point the question becomes is Remco a valid enough team leader to obtain such a powerful support team. Which we all know only the wealthiest teams can afford. Ineos and Red Bull seemed to think so a year or so ago. I say if he podium again i would agree on that. And if I'm Ineos i'll invest in Remco with a top 5. He seems a definite upgrade on Rodriguez. And Thomas (who i believe will ride a fantastic tour) is on his last go-around.

I say yes no matter what happens this tour. Who else is an option for those teams? Who has both the qualities and market value except Pogacar and Vingegaard? In any case, he needs a team that has 100% focus on him to have a real chance winning the TdF. Anything else won't be enough to max out his capabilities. It may still not be enough to really challenge P & G in GT's but I believe that discussion belongs to the clinic.

 

[Tim Cahill]

"Sources close to Evenepoel, who for anonymities sake we will refer to as R.Denk"

Exclusive: Remco readies Quick-Step exit with Red Bull ready to pounce

The Belgian's oft-rumoured exit from Soudal-Quick Step is again the talk of the Tour.

escapecollective.com

 

[CyclistAbi]

It's interesting on how all sort of rumours emerge during the Tour. Some even seem to suggest the earth is flat.

 

[Tim Cahill]

It's interesting on how all sort of rumours emerge during the Tour. Some even seem to suggest the earth is flat.

Are you not feeling Rognepoel?

 

[CyclistAbi]

Are you not feeling Rognepoel?

I don't believe Remco will leave SOQ before his contract ends.

 

[red_flanders]

"Sources close to Evenepoel, who for anonymities sake we will refer to as R.Denk"

Exclusive: Remco readies Quick-Step exit with Red Bull ready to pounce

The Belgian's oft-rumoured exit from Soudal-Quick Step is again the talk of the Tour.

escapecollective.com

Outstanding post. 🫡

If RBH invest like that in Remco, there might be a lot more pressure on riders to perform and justify the overall spend. So while my first instinct was "is that team really that much better?", a signing like this can change a team. And they have some serious rider assets. If they could unlock all those guys, it's a great team.

 

[Tim Cahill]

Outstanding post. 🫡

If RBH invest like that in Remco, there might be a lot more pressure on riders to perform and justify the overall spend. So while my first instinct was "is that team really that much better?", a signing like this can change a team. And they have some serious rider assets. If they could unlock all those guys, it's a great team.

I think they suffer sometimes from a lack of direction, the management structure often seems ruthless without a coherent plan, the guys in the car routinely get it wrong, and those out on the road seem directionless as a result. The talent there is undeniable like you said, perhaps someone like Evenepoel can bring the best out of everyone, though he's a capricious lad it could also have the opposite effect.

Evenepoel riding with Roglic could be highly entertaining I must admit, what a clash of styles.

Lidl-Trek the less shambolic option right now I think, they have everything in place but a 1A GC rider, the stacked rouler squad, 4 possible top mountain doms and they seem to have their performance seriously dialled in. They sounded keen to sign someone of his calibre back in the winter;

'We have to step up' - Lidl-Trek manager Guercilena ready to sign Tour de France contender

Lidl-Trek team aim high for Grand Tour leader, 'you can develop them in-house, or you buy them'

www.cyclingnews.com

 

[red_flanders]

Here's the Escape Collective podcast RE REMCO

Starts at 31:14

They feel this is way more solid than previous rumors and sound quite confident he's leaving. The RBH thing sound like a bit more speculative. Or so I gathered.

 

[Ulfhednar]

Not what I said. I said that if it's a persistent Remco problem (positioning), that it is something to be countered by a strong support team.

Also they brought him up, but were not strong enough to stay there themselves. A strong support team brings him up, stays there, continues to surround him and protect his positioning.

Again, Remco unable to hold his position is a weakness of him. But if it's impossible to rectify that through (mental) training, than the other solution is a stronger support team. That's just the reality.

At that point the question becomes is Remco a valid enough team leader to obtain such a powerful support team. Which we all know only the wealthiest teams can afford. Ineos and Red Bull seemed to think so a year or so ago. I say if he podium again i would agree on that. And if I'm Ineos i'll invest in Remco with a top 5. He seems a definite upgrade on Rodriguez. And Thomas (who i believe will ride a fantastic tour) is on his last go-around.

I agree with this...I thought his team "train" looked like they were holding on for dear life...definitely not strong enough and this allowed Remco to get jostled to the back, because at this stage of his career he is somewhat timid due to the crashes. I think Remco needs to be done with Soudal after this season...used to thing RB was a possible fit, but not so much anymore as they seem carbon copy of Soudal. I am a big Remco supporter, but so far he has disappointed.