Teams & Riders The Remco Evenepoel is the next Eddy Merckx thread

[Cycling111]

That's not true. I already told many times he is a GC rider, not remotely close to his level in hilly classics and specially TTs and this is due to lack of consistency in the mountains. He is unreliable in the high mountains.
And to be honest, I don't actually mind that much when people say he is the 3rd best GT rider (right now, he isn't for sure IMO) but if someone has a different opinion,it's also realistic to think that way. But when someone says he is a future TdF winner because he was amazing in the TdF 2024, l lose my head frankly. There is zero evidence he can win the Tour, specially when he loses 2 minutes to Pogacar in every big MTF. Even for Vingegaard, he is not close and when those who claim he will win the TdF, I just think "In what scenario can he win the Tour when he is racing against two way better climbers?"
In hilly classics, under the right circunstances, he will beat Pogacar occasionally but when Pogacar doesn't make mistakes, there is no chance for him. This is what I have been watching in the last 2 years. Can this change? Maybe in classics, no in GTs. He will be coached by Dan Lorang. One of the best!

The Tour is usually a race of two favorites, if not just one. Third place doesn't guarantee anything. Historically, third place has been a spectator.

Furthermore, Remco isn't Lipowitz, who's just starting out. He debuted the same year as Pogacar and Vingegaard, so he's a rider of his era, not one who can look too far ahead to when the others retire. We don't know who will retire first, and the years of competition are the same for now.

I agree with what you say. His climbing level isn't at all consistent. He's only been consistent in one Tour (Pogacar hsas 0 DNF in GT), and after focusing on that. Any setback and it's not even a sure thing that he'll get a podium finish. So, it's very difficult to guarantee that he'll win a Tour. Chances are he won't, barring an exceptional situation like Nibali. And even Nibali showed a bit more consistency in a race like the Giro.

Remco, in GT, reminds me of Valverde. The best GT for him is the Vuelta, due to its easy route and less mountain. Valverde was never a favorite in the Giro, and neither was he in the Tour. He made the podium once, but he was never a contender for victory.
I don't even see Ayuso winning a Tour, and in the mountains at least he performs better in one-week races´ mountain.

 

[Peyroteo94]

I believe it’s two main factors, watt and weight. This year his weight was probably good, but his ability to produce watt was bad, probably because of the postman crash and lack of base work in the winter.
Last year his watt was good and his weight was good. Giro 2023 his weight was likely too high (but because Covid we didn’t get to see it) and in Giro 2021 his weight was likely too low (and combined with less base he wasn’t close to keep the watts during the entire Giro).

Then of course one shouldn’t underestimate the mental factor. To me it seems like he’s a person that mentally doubles the effect of his form. When his form (watt and weight) is good, his confidence is great and it makes him ride at his absolute best. When his form is bad his mental state makes him ride with lower than what he should be able to push.

He had 5 months to prepare the Tour. Vingegaard lost kilos of muscle mass and still made 2nd in the Tour with less than 2 months preparation

 

[Eddy Evenepoel]

He had 5 months to prepare the Tour. Vingegaard lost kilos of muscle mass and still made 2nd in the Tour with less than 2 months preparation

Last year Remco got 3rd in the Tour with very similar preparations as Vingegaard as they both had a very bad crash in the same corner on the same day.

This year Remco had a worse crash than last year, but 4 months earlier. And yet he was so much worse at the Tour this year. If it’s not the lack of base from the winter, what is the reason for it going wrong this year according to you?

 

[Eddy Evenepoel]

Chances are he won't, barring an exceptional situation like Nibali. And even Nibali showed a bit more consistency in a race like the Giro.

Man what is this? You are underselling Nibali extremely much. The guy won all grand tours and podiumed 11 times. He was a great GC rider and a very strong climber for almost 15 years.

 

[KoopaCycling]

Strangely i think those that dislike Remco have bigger expectations for him than I do.
Just a return to form, perhaps a slight improvement GT wise under his new team with better prep.

If he manages that after all that has happened this year, i'm already happy.

 

[Peyroteo94]

Last year Remco got 3rd in the Tour with very similar preparations as Vingegaard as they both had a very bad crash in the same corner on the same day.

This year Remco had a worse crash than last year, but 4 months earlier. And yet he was so much worse at the Tour this year. If it’s not the lack of base from the winter, what is the reason for it going wrong this year according to you?

Similar preparations? Vingegaard had a way worse preparation due to serious injuries. Not just a collarbone.

 

[Charlyghoul]

Nibali is above all current riders bar Pogacar.

 

[Eddy Evenepoel]

Similar preparations? Vingegaard had a way worse preparation due to serious injuries. Not just a collarbone.

Similar doesn’t mean the same. They crashed in the same race, they both had a lengthy period without competing. Remco returned to racing a bit before of course, but that is well within the term of similar being used.

But the point is, compare Remcos 2025 preparation with Remcos 2024 preparation. Do that and try to come up with a better answer than “lacking base from the winter this year”

 

[Peyroteo94]

Similar doesn’t mean the same. They crashed in the same race, they both had a lengthy period without competing. Remco returned to racing a bit before of course, but that is well within the term of similar being used.

But the point is, compare Remcos 2025 preparation with Remcos 2024 preparation. Do that and try to come up with a better answer than “lacking base from the winter this year”

Still had 5 months to prepare the Tour. Do you think you don't lose your base when you punctured your lungs like Vingegaard in 2024?
You can build a base level in February too. For some reason Remco started his season in April and not in February.

 

[Eddy Evenepoel]

Still had 5 months to prepare the Tour. Do you think you don't lose your base when you punctured your lungs like Vingegaard in 2024?
You can build a base level in February too. For some reason Remco started his season in April and not in February.

Oh my god, can you atleast try to answer what I ask you?
Compare the prepatarions of Remco 2025 with his 2024 preparation.
Why do you think Remco was so bad in the 2025 Tour if you dont believe the lack of base training in the winter is the factor?

(Vingegaard is irrelevant. Ive never said anything about his base and this is not the Vingegaard thread)

 

[Peyroteo94]

Oh my god, can you atleast try to answer what I ask you?
Compare the prepatarions of Remco 2025 with his 2024 preparation.
Why do you think Remco was so bad in the 2025 Tour if you dont believe the lack of base training in the winter is the factor?

(Vingegaard is irrelevant. Ive never said anything about his base and this is not the Vingegaard thread)

He had plenty of time to prepare the Tour in 2025. What you didn't understand? I don't see where his preparation was much worse (I think it was better actually. He had 5 months to prepare the Tour) despite having worse injuries. He is unreliable in GTs, it's hard to know why he didn't perform in the Tour. But I don't think the crash in December is the reason.

 

[Eddy Evenepoel]

He had plenty of time to prepare the Tour in 2025. What you didn't understand? I don't see where his preparation was much worse (I think it was better actually. He had 5 months to prepare the Tour) despite having worse injuries. He is unreliable in GTs, it's hard to know why he didn't perform in the Tour. But I don't think the crash in December is the reason.

Yes he had plenty of time, but obviously he didnt manage to be prepared for the Tour, as he rode much worse than last year. That we all agree about, that isnt any point of discussion.

Then I came with my guess why he didnt manage to be good in the Tour this year. My guess is the lack of base training in the winter (from the crash beginning of november and until mid march cirka when he reached "normal training level" again).

You say you dont think the crash in december is the reason. Then the question is very simple. What do you think is the reason?

 

[Peyroteo94]

Yes he had plenty of time, but obviously he didnt manage to be prepared for the Tour, as he rode much worse than last year. That we all agree about, that isnt any point of discussion.

Then I came with my guess why he didnt manage to be good in the Tour this year. My guess is the lack of base training in the winter (from the crash beginning of november and until mid march cirka when he reached "normal training level" again).

You say you dont think the crash in december is the reason. Then the question is very simple. What do you think is the reason?

His natural inconsistency or lack of ability from his coaches in Soudal which leads to his inconsistency. This is what I will know next year.

 

[Eddy Evenepoel]

His natural inconsistency or lack of ability from his coaches in Soudal which leads to his inconsistency. This is what I will know next year.

Or you know, big period of training missed leading to inconsistency...?

 

[Peyroteo94]

Or you know, big period of training missed leading to inconsistency...?

Vuelta 2023 was not lack of base level. This is pointless. I don't agree with you and you with me. Both are realistic scenarios, maybe next year he will know his true level in the mountains.

 

[Eddy Evenepoel]

maybe next year he will know his true level in the mountains.

What is the "true level"? It's a pointless term that doesnt mean anything.
If he has a bad preparation and cracks again, is that his "true level" and his Tourpodium and Vueltavictory never happened? If he is riding good and finishs 3rd is that his "true level" and you will say that you were wrong for ever doubting him to be the third best GC rider? If Jonas is doing the Giro beforehand and gets beaten by Remco in the Tour, is then Remcos "true level is better than Jonas"?

Elite sport isnt a computer game where riders have constant stats that says exactly how good they are. There are a lot of small factors over the entire year leading up to a big race that can have a massive impact and talking about "true level" is just nonsense.

 

[Peyroteo94]

What is the "true level"? It's a pointless term that doesnt mean anything.
If he has a bad preparation and cracks again, is that his "true level" and his Tourpodium and Vueltavictory never happened? If he is riding good and finishs 3rd is that his "true level" and you will say that you were wrong for ever doubting him to be the third best GC rider? If Jonas is doing the Giro beforehand and gets beaten by Remco in the Tour, is then Remcos "true level is better than Jonas"?

Elite sport isnt a computer game where riders have constant stats that says exactly how good they are. There are a lot of small factors over the entire year leading up to a big race that can have a massive impact and talking about "true level" is just nonsense.

There are many races where he didn't show a good level in the mountains. Not just the Tour.
But let's wait for the next year.

 

[CyclistAbi]

Pushing Remco into fatherhood is weird.

Pogacar fans that try to discredit him is normal

Strange priorities.

 

[KoopaCycling]

Vuelta 2023 was not lack of base level. This is pointless. I don't agree with you and you with me. Both are realistic scenarios, maybe next year he will know his true level in the mountains.

I'm looking forward to seeing him this year still.
Obviously Pogacar will be a roadblock. But I want to see him take the first steps back to being himself.
See him finish the season strong. For every race he enters. Hopefully not fade.
If he wins even 1 race of WC, EC, Lombardia it will already be a big win this year.
Not likely. But remco remains remco. He can still surprise.

 

[peterfin]

Even if Remco makes a giant leap, he will not be as good as Pogacar for example. The gap is massive.
It is way more probable to see Del Toro as a better climber than Remco next year IMO.
Other thing very obvious is how Remco is not as natural as Pogacar or Vingegaard in the mountains. It's so obvious but this is what bothers me the most, you guys (Remco diehard fans) cannot see this. It's so blatantly obvious! Both Vingegaard and Pogacar can win a mountain stage after being on vacations, Remco would probably lose 2 minutes in a mountain stage for 2nd tier climbers. However, Remco can be on vacations for 3 weeks without training and you give him a TT bike and he will win a flat TT. This is the difference. He is not naturally built to climb like Pogacar or Vingegaard. This is why he can't beat them in the TdF.

Sorry but the data doesn't correspond with your obsevations. It's not blatantly obvious. Check his climb performance in 2022, 2023 and 2024. Check the actual data, not the relative performance because it's easy to dismiss a performance in a race as irrelevant because Pogacar was not present. You can use Watts2win as a reference, even if it is not perfect. His score improved from 88 in 2022 to 90 in 2023 (Catalunya) to 96 in 2024 (4x above 90). Pogacar maximized 84 in 2022 and 87 in 2023 before going to an alien-level of 111 in 2024 and 102 during the latest TdF. I don't believe Pogacar's 2024 score is correct but that's not the point. The point is that 2022-2023 Pogacar can be challenged by a 2022-2024 Evenepoel. And, yes, Remco may not be a pure climber but Pogacar is neither, especially in comparison to Vingegaard. So the question is, what happens next? Can Remco improve being part of a better team? And is Pogacar able to keep his insane level? And of course, there is still Vingegaard too who is a more natural climber.

 

[Peyroteo94]

Sorry but the data doesn't correspond with your obsevations. It's not blatantly obvious. Check his climb performance in 2022, 2023 and 2024. Check the actual data, not the relative performance because it's easy to dismiss a performance in a race as irrelevant because Pogacar was not present. You can use Watts2win as a reference, even if it is not perfect. His score improved from 88 in 2022 to 90 in 2023 (Catalunya) to 96 in 2024 (4x above 90). Pogacar maximized 84 in 2022 and 87 in 2023 before going to an alien-level of 111 in 2024 and 102 during the latest TdF. I don't believe Pogacar's 2024 score is correct but that's not the point. The point is that 2022-2023 Pogacar can be challenged by a 2022-2024 Evenepoel. And, yes, Remco may not be a pure climber but Pogacar is neither, especially in comparison to Vingegaard. So the question is, what happens next? Can Remco improve being part of a better team? And is Pogacar able to keep his insane level? And of course, there is still Vingegaard too who is a more natural climber.

Teenagers are beating 2021 Pogacar. I compare Remco with his rivals when they are racing the same race. Pidcock had great numbers in Alula Tour for example.
What I know is Remco couldn’t lose less than 2 minutes to Pogacar this year in every mountain stage (Dauphiné and the Tour). The year before, 1:30 regularly. So it is blatantly obvious. At least for me.
Pogacar is the best climber in the world. He is not a pure climber because he is good at everything. Remco is not a natural climber, different things. It isn't his main strenght at all. His best performances are not in high mountains, are in hilly classics or TTs. On the other hand, Pogacar is a natural climber, he wins every mountain stage from February to October if he wants.

In what world could Remco 2022-2023 challenge Pogacar 2022-2023 in GTs? C'mon. What cycling did you watch in those years?

 

[Oldman]

Why is that relevant? If Remco is to win or podium a GT he needs to be prepared, everyone agrees about that? I don’t think anyone has ever claimed Remco to be a natural climber like Jonas either.

Who doesn’t see this? Why do you think there have been so much talk about his weight and complaints against QS for not knowing what weight he needs to be at when entering a GT?

I don't think it's a weight problem as much as the volume of miles that makes a good GT rider. Jay Vine is a Zwift phenom and can win stages. How durable is he likely to be and can he TT near well enough to be a podium contender? Maybe in time.
Roglic was one of the few mature racers that started late for GT's. He clearly had the discipline and guidance to train for it almost immediately. Remco's been massaged by his family and the Belgian fans for a long time and didn't travel the cruel route most racers you've never heard of will ride to make it. There is something to be said for the suffering that comes from no money, no team support and smaller heritage, too. Most of us Forumites that have opinions haven't hurt as much as the Lantern Rouge . Remco as a pro has endured serious injury and the work load to recover. IMO he's matured much through that but physically his personal maturation cycle could lack the upside for huge improvements.

 

[Berniece]

Strange priorities.

How so? He is 25. More than time enough for kids. Everyone can decide this for themselves when they want them but I don’t believe kids help in your career.

 

[KoopaCycling]

Wether kids help or not depends on each individual. Love and kids can be great boosts, but can also be detrimental.
There is no right or wrong answer. Just what a person wants in the situation he/she is in.

Frank VDB is a famous example.
And whilst I may be entirely wrong about this. In a way so is perhaps Remco. If i'm not mistaken he & Oumi were taking their relationship to the next level in 2022. Becoming more than just girlfriend & boyfriend to actual family.

From what Soudal is saying Magnier will be focal point in Britain. With maybe Van Wilder for GC.
Remco is seen as helper and question mark regarding GC ambitions.
At least that is what I got from the article.

Is it weird that i'm more interested in MTB WC with Van der Poel than Vuelta, upcoming Road Races?
I think it's cause i have half written Vingegaard in for the Vuelta and Pogacar for the remaining big one-day races.
There is no will he or will he not feeling.

 

[peterfin]

Teenagers are beating 2021 Pogacar. I compare Remco with his rivals when they are racing the same race. Pidcock had great numbers in Alula Tour for example.
What I know is Remco couldn’t lose less than 2 minutes to Pogacar this year in every mountain stage (Dauphiné and the Tour). The year before, 1:30 regularly. So it is blatantly obvious. At least for me.
Pogacar is the best climber in the world. He is not a pure climber because he is good at everything. Remco is not a natural climber, different things. It isn't his main strenght at all. His best performances are not in high mountains, are in hilly classics or TTs. On the other hand, Pogacar is a natural climber, he wins every mountain stage from February to October if he wants.

In what world could Remco 2022-2023 challenge Pogacar 2022-2023 in GTs? C'mon. What cycling did you watch in those years?

I watched most races. Did you? Maybe you did but have recency bias because of it. Remco's 2022 level from the summer onwards was stellar and he was going strong until his Covid exit during the 2023 Giro. He was much closer to Pogacar at that point, being also a year younger. He again improved in 2024, especially considering his crash 3 months prior to the tour, but clearly Pogacar made a giant leap forward.