Teams & Riders The Remco Evenepoel is the next Eddy Merckx thread

[Berflamand]

Pogacar was actually faster than Evenepoel mano a mano on Sunday so not sure how you think it can be possible in his current shape. It's not a flat/rolling race where Evenepoel can be super-fresh, it still has some good climbs to fatigue guys with lower w/kg.

Let me start by saying that I don't believe Remco can actually cook Pogi on his wheel on the flat (especially not in a race with that much climbing).

But a mano a mano battle where they're both solo is not a good comparison I think because they're both having to ride all out all the time. The point is that when they would be together on flat roads Remco can chill in Pogi's wheel when Pogi is relaying while Pogi still needs to ride hard(er) when Remco is relaying because of his aerodynamics. Ofcourse this effect is greater with bigger riders like Wout.

 

[AmRacer]

Let me start by saying that I don't believe Remco can actually cook Pogi on his wheel on the flat (especially not in a race with that much climbing).

But a mano a mano battle where they're both solo is not a good comparison I think because they're both having to ride all out all the time. The point is that when they would be together on flat roads Remco can chill in Pogi's wheel when Pogi is relaying while Pogi still needs to ride hard(er) when Remco is relaying because of his aerodynamics. Ofcourse this effect is greater with bigger riders like Wout.

Marginal gains only for Remco vs Pogi, it must be like 100 km flat and no cobbles to make any difference.

 

[KoopaCycling]

EUC will become prestigious fast.
I'm sure of it.

I'm doubtful mixed relay will ever get far given it's format and all that. Maybe if it exists long enough.
But EUC will find it's way. on a good point in the calender. Add a nice looking jersey to wear in the mix and it will get big.
Not sure how people don't see that.

 

[Peyroteo94]

The true is: Remco doesn't have any weapon to beat Pogacar on sheer power. MVP has his sprint, Remco doesn't.
Remco can be closer to Pogacar in championships because Belgium is a lot stronger than Slovenia. If Pogacar races for UAE, any race will be transformed in a W/Kg contest without tactical situations and this is why Pogacar normally destroys the field (including Remco) by a lot.
Remco is marginally faster than Pogacar on the flat after a hard race. These are facts that no one can contest after last 2 years events.
I remember Remco going away in the Tour (gravel stage) and Pogacar closed 12-15" easily.

But we don't need to wait a lot. In 4 days, Pogacar and Remco will "fight" again and we will see if Remco is able to follow or catch Pogacar.

 

[AmRacer]

The true is: Remco doesn't have any weapon to beat Pogacar on sheer power. MVP has his sprint, Remco doesn't.
Remco can be closer to Pogacar in championships because Belgium is a lot stronger than Slovenia. If Pogacar races for UAE, any race will be transformed in a W/Kg contest without tactical situations and this is why Pogacar normally destroys the field (including Remco) by a lot.
Remco is marginally faster than Pogacar on the flat after a hard race. These are facts that no one can contest after last 2 years events.
I remember Remco going away in the Tour (gravel stage) and Pogacar closed 12-15" easily.

But we don't need to wait a lot. In 4 days, Pogacar and Remco will "fight" again and we will see if Remco is able to follow or catch Pogacar.

GdL last yar, Pogi was faster than Remco every inch of the course.

 

[KoopaCycling]

The true is: Remco doesn't have any weapon to beat Pogacar on sheer power. MVP has his sprint, Remco doesn't.
Remco can be closer to Pogacar in championships because Belgium is a lot stronger than Slovenia. If Pogacar races for UAE, any race will be transformed in a W/Kg contest without tactical situations and this is why Pogacar normally destroys the field (including Remco) by a lot.
Remco is marginally faster than Pogacar on the flat after a hard race. These are facts that no one can contest after last 2 years events.
I remember Remco going away in the Tour (gravel stage) and Pogacar closed 12-15" easily.

But we don't need to wait a lot. In 4 days, Pogacar and Remco will "fight" again and we will see if Remco is able to follow or catch Pogacar.

If both come down the line, i can't say who's gonna win in a flat sprint.
I think Pogacar would have the edge. He seems to position himself better. And when your sprint is just about equal on the flat, that matters. Evenepoel got third in Amstel cause he started on the front and allowed himself to be tricked by Pogacar. I genuinely believe Remco lost that race, not on sprint speed, but sprint tactics.

I would not mind seeing Remco have a sprint redemption against Pogacar though. But that's wishful thinking.

 

[AmRacer]

If both come down the line, i can't say who's gonna win in a flat sprint.
I think Pogacar would have the edge. He seems to position himself better. And when your sprint is just about equal on the flat, that matters. Evenepoel got third in Amstel cause he started on the front and allowed himself to be tricked by Pogacar. I genuinely believe Remco lost that race, not on sprint speed, but sprint tactics.

I would not mind seeing Remco have a sprint redemption against Pogacar though. But that's wishful thinking.

A sprint as much about raw power and tactics. Pogi has an edge at both against Remco,

 

[Berniece]

If both come down the line, i can't say who's gonna win in a flat sprint.
I think Pogacar would have the edge. He seems to position himself better. And when your sprint is just about equal on the flat, that matters. Evenepoel got third in Amstel cause he started on the front and allowed himself to be tricked by Pogacar. I genuinely believe Remco lost that race, not on sprint speed, but sprint tactics.

I would not mind seeing Remco have a sprint redemption against Pogacar though. But that's wishful thinking.

And Pogacar is stronger mentally I believe in these type of situations, just like MVDP is even better. They can keep their cool, and now how to act. I can already tell you that if both of them ride to the finish line together, it'll be Evenepoel again who will lead the sprint.

 

[Jan the Man]

How do you mean? You think Pogacar is better on flat sections than Evenepoel?

I am not sure that is the point - the implausible part is Remco being able to do enough damage to Pog on the flat to essentially win a sprint, in a race of this nature. That i just cannot see based on the past couple of years and current form- it is implausible to think he can just go solo from him on the flat if its the two of them and if he goes all in trying to drop him on flat it will adversely affect his sprint and indeed expose him on the final ascent

 

[Peyroteo94]

If both come down the line, i can't say who's gonna win in a flat sprint.
I think Pogacar would have the edge. He seems to position himself better. And when your sprint is just about equal on the flat, that matters. Evenepoel got third in Amstel cause he started on the front and allowed himself to be tricked by Pogacar. I genuinely believe Remco lost that race, not on sprint speed, but sprint tactics.

I would not mind seeing Remco have a sprint redemption against Pogacar though. But that's wishful thinking.

this is a big If.
Firstly, we, often, don't see Remco and Pogacar sprinting against each other because Pogacar normally drops Remco.

This year, they sprinted 3 or 4 times (on flat roads) and Pogacar won every time (Dauphiné, Tour 2x, AGR). Only AGR was somewhat a close contest and that's probably because Pogacar was spent. However, Remco also was cooked in the stage 4 in the Tour.

Lastly, I don't mind Remco being delusional. @peterfin said something that made me think and I totally agree with him. It's good Remco doesn't conform for 2nd and races to win. It's important for us (cycling fans) riders don't race for 2nd because Pogacar is out of reach. It's important we still have Remco, MVP and Vingegaard to give Pogacar some headaches.
But some of his fans saying he is on par with Pogacar in classics and saying he gains more time on flat roads than Pogacar gains uphill. Sorry, this is completely far from reality, specially when we have million examples of Remco losing 10" or more/km uphill. And not just in long climbs (almost every mountain stage they raced together) but also hills (FW, TdF stages 4 and 10, WC, Redoute. I could give more examples but just chose examples from this year). AGR is a exception, not the norm.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

Let me start by saying that I don't believe Remco can actually cook Pogi on his wheel on the flat (especially not in a race with that much climbing).

But a mano a mano battle where they're both solo is not a good comparison I think because they're both having to ride all out all the time. The point is that when they would be together on flat roads Remco can chill in Pogi's wheel when Pogi is relaying while Pogi still needs to ride hard(er) when Remco is relaying because of his aerodynamics. Ofcourse this effect is greater with bigger riders like Wout.

I get what u mean. Evenepoel is very aero efficient and his companions tire faster than him when they ride together. I just think a particular type of race course is needed and Pogacars form is too good on EC course to get cooked.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

Sure, and then we'll see who has it. Pogacar is in skinny TDF shape, since WC RR was 5500 altitude meters. I can imagine he's a bit slower than normally, while Evenepoel should be faster compared to GT shape.

Maybe, not saying Evenepoel cant win a sprint, Pogacar is looking like Tour type of form while Remco more like classics form (maybe more explosive)

 

[Berniece]

Maybe, not saying Evenepoel cant win a sprint, Pogacar is looking like Tour type of form while Remco more like classics form (maybe more explosive)

Indeed. Looking forward to the race. Chance for redemption after the mechanicals.

 

[KoopaCycling]

I fear i won't be able to watch the TT today. Hope he does well, but would not be surprised if he only manages podium.
Wouldn't be surprised if he wins either though. I will only be surprised if he falls of the podium (without having had a crash)

 

[AmRacer]

And Pogacar is stronger mentally I believe in these type of situations, just like MVDP is even better. They can keep their cool, and now how to act. I can already tell you that if both of them ride to the finish line together, it'll be Evenepoel again who will lead the sprint.

Nope, Mathieu isn't better

 

[Cycling111]

this is a big If.
Firstly, we, often, don't see Remco and Pogacar sprinting against each other because Pogacar normally drops Remco.

This year, they sprinted 3 or 4 times (on flat roads) and Pogacar won every time (Dauphiné, Tour 2x, AGR). Only AGR was somewhat a close contest and that's probably because Pogacar was spent. However, Remco also was cooked in the stage 4 in the Tour.

Lastly, I don't mind Remco being delusional. @peterfin said something that made me think and I totally agree with him. It's good Remco doesn't conform for 2nd and races to win. It's important for us (cycling fans) riders don't race for 2nd because Pogacar is out of reach. It's important we still have Remco, MVP and Vingegaard to give Pogacar some headaches.
But some of his fans saying he is on par with Pogacar in classics and saying he gains more time on flat roads than Pogacar gains uphill. Sorry, this is completely far from reality, specially when we have million examples of Remco losing 10" or more/km uphill. And not just in long climbs (almost every mountain stage they raced together) but also hills (FW, TdF stages 4 and 10, WC, Redoute. I could give more examples but just chose examples from this year). AGR is a exception, not the norm.

Pogacar is completely underrated on the flat in a road race.

Last year in Lombardy, he made his biggest difference on the flat.
This year in Flanders, he gained more time on the flat, and he also did in 2023.
In Kigali on the flat didn't lose time.

Pogacar on a road bike in a road race is very good on the flat.
I don't know what else he needs to do to dispel this false idea that he isn't.

 

[Eddy Evenepoel]

Pogacar is completely underrated on the flat in a road race.

Last year in Lombardy, he made his biggest difference on the flat.
This year in Flanders, he gained more time on the flat, and he also did in 2023.
In Kigali on the flat didn't lose time.

Pogacar on a road bike in a road race is very good on the flat.
I don't know what else he needs to do to dispel this false idea that he isn't.

I don’t think anyone thinks that Pogacar isn’t very good on the flat? It’s just that that is one of the few things where he isn’t head and shoulders better than everyone else.

 

[AmRacer]

I don’t think anyone thinks that Pogacar isn’t very good on the flat? It’s just that that is one of the few things where he isn’t head and shoulders better than everyone else.

Pogi is better on the flat than most of the peloton.

 

[Eddy Evenepoel]

Pogi is better on the flat than most of the peloton.

Read my post again and then you see I completely agree

 

[Berniece]

Pogacar is completely underrated on the flat in a road race.

Last year in Lombardy, he made his biggest difference on the flat.
This year in Flanders, he gained more time on the flat, and he also did in 2023.
In Kigali on the flat didn't lose time.

Pogacar on a road bike in a road race is very good on the flat.
I don't know what else he needs to do to dispel this false idea that he isn't.

What you are saying is that when everyone is completely destroyed and knackered, he has more energy left, and thus is faster on the flat. If he was actually really good at it, he would win WC ITT's on the flat. Which he doesn't because he doesn't have that power in him. He only has more power left when everyone is destroyed.

Reflecting that on UEC RR. If he is able to make the race very hard, he might be faster on flat sections, because the other riders are just tired.

 

[AmRacer]

What you are saying is that when everyone is completely destroyed and knackered, he has more energy left, and thus is faster on the flat. If he was actually really good at it, he would win WC ITT's on the flat. Which he doesn't because he doesn't have that power in him. He only has more power left when everyone is destroyed.

Reflecting that on UEC RR. If he is able to make the race very hard, he might be faster on flat sections, because the other riders are just tired.

ITT and RR are different things. Cannot compare them.

 

[topt]

How do you mean? You think Pogacar is better on flat sections than Evenepoel?

on normal bike, hell yes; also you claimed something different which was even more absurd

 

[topt]

The true is: Remco doesn't have any weapon to beat Pogacar on sheer power. MVP has his sprint, Remco doesn't.
Remco can be closer to Pogacar in championships because Belgium is a lot stronger than Slovenia. If Pogacar races for UAE, any race will be transformed in a W/Kg contest without tactical situations and this is why Pogacar normally destroys the field (including Remco) by a lot.
Remco is marginally faster than Pogacar on the flat after a hard race. These are facts that no one can contest after last 2 years events.
I remember Remco going away in the Tour (gravel stage) and Pogacar closed 12-15" easily.

But we don't need to wait a lot. In 4 days, Pogacar and Remco will "fight" again and we will see if Remco is able to follow or catch Pogacar.

no, he is not

 

[topt]

If both come down the line, i can't say who's gonna win in a flat sprint.
I think Pogacar would have the edge. He seems to position himself better. And when your sprint is just about equal on the flat, that matters. Evenepoel got third in Amstel cause he started on the front and allowed himself to be tricked by Pogacar. I genuinely believe Remco lost that race, not on sprint speed, but sprint tactics.

I would not mind seeing Remco have a sprint redemption against Pogacar though. But that's wishful thinking.

when the hell did remco win a sprint against Pog ? Pog wins 10/10 no matter the terrain; Christ what the hell has happened with people in last 14 days

 

[Berniece]

on normal bike, hell yes; also you claimed something different which was even more absurd

No clue why that would be the case. Nothing proofs this