Teams & Riders The Remco Evenepoel is the next Eddy Merckx thread

[RedheadDane]

It’s always an option in an interview not to comment, or to phrase your answer diplomatically. Why is it his role to speak on behalf of the entire team (“and we can’t forgive him for that”); or to comment at all on it, when he unlike Ewan won’t be sprinting against Groenewegen?

Not sure how Ewan sprinting against him will have much of an effect regarding the overall DQ feelings towards Groenewegen.

But in general I think there's a gigantic sympathy circlejerk for Groenewegen right now

Possibly a counter-reaction to the people giving him death-treats. The people telling him that he should kill his kid!

 

[Red Rick]

Not sure how Ewan sprinting against him will have much of an effect regarding the overall DQ feelings towards Groenewegen.



Possibly a counter-reaction to the people giving him death-treats. The people telling him that he should kill his kid!

I don't condone that that's something crazy people do, but I also think death threats are very common and extremely easy sympathy points. When you do something like that, it's kind of to be expected that you get them, and it doesn't make it alright by any stretch of the imagination. For me they're completely seperate incidents.

 

[RedheadDane]

I don't condone that that's something crazy people do, but I also think death threats are very common and extremely easy sympathy points. When you do something like that, it's kind of to be expected that you get them, and it doesn't make it alright by any stretch of the imagination. For me they're completely seperate incidents.

I'd probably have had significantly less sympathy towards Groenewegen regarding the death treats if.

1: He hadn't shown any remorse about the crash.
2: He'd gone public about it while Jakobsen was still in the hospital.

As for whether the other DQ riders will ever talk to Groenewegen again - beyond the regular communication, I suppose you need to do when sitting in the peloton - there is only one rider who can make a decision about that, and that is not Remco Evenepoel!

 

[kingjr]

Give it a few years and Lance is going to look like a choirboy compared to Remco

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

I'd probably have had significantly less sympathy towards Groenewegen regarding the death treats if.

1: He hadn't shown any remorse about the crash.
2: He'd gone public about it while Jakobsen was still in the hospital.

As for whether the other DQ riders will ever talk to Groenewegen again - beyond the regular communication, I suppose you need to do when sitting in the peloton - there is only one rider who can make a decision about that, and that is not Remco Evenepoel!

Good thing that's EXACTLY what Evenepoel said.

 

[RedheadDane]

Good thing that's EXACTLY what Evenepoel said.

Is it?

"How they get along in future is for them to figure out. I don't think Fabio has to talk to Dylan; it's correct to ignore him," Evenepoel said. "I don't think anyone from our team will speak to him. He hurt our teammate and we can't forgive him for that."

Not "I can't forgive him!" but "We can't forgive him!"

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Is it?

Not "I can't forgive him!" but "We can't forgive him!"

The entire interview is "i think", "it's his choice", "perhaps"... yes, it's exactly what he's saying, you finding one example where he doesn't explicitly say that (and of of which you don't know if it's the interpretation of the journalist) doesn't change anything. The tone of the interview, of his intentions, is clear.

 

[Poursuivant]

He will win the Giro

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

He will win the Giro

Is there any reason for you to say this? Did you read or hear something about his progress?

 

[Netserk]

Well, Bernal won't win.

 

[Poursuivant]

Is there any reason for you to say this? Did you read or hear something about his progress?

Nope, just know that he will have great legs for it, and if he needs to make time up, he will attack from long distance. His TT is exceptional, his climbing too.

 

[Skalman]

Nope, just know that he will have great legs for it, and if he needs to make time up, he will attack from long distance. His TT is exceptional, his climbing too.

I haven't followed his rehab but i would be very surprised if he is even close to his top level this year or maybe ever again. I really hope he can be, but that was a serious injury, he is young though so there is still hope.

 

[Red Rick]

He will either crush the Giro or never reach his top level there is no inbetween and we must be able to determine this with 100% certainty before he even races again.

 

[gregrowlerson]

He will win the Giro

In the bag.

 

[BlueRoads]

In the bag.

Pocket. With Remco, it's pocket.

 

[gregrowlerson]

Pocket. With Remco, it's pocket.

Sorry, wrong thread

 

[Gigs_98]

It's really a change of perspective for me to see how people and the media talk about a rider that is younger than me. I guess growing up and getting older, even when you are technically an adult already, you always think there must come some point when all of a sudden you are wise and have a clue about anything. You always assume that pro athletes or really any sort of celebrity must know what they are talking of, they are adults after all. Now that I'm older than some of those guys I just realize that Remco is probably about as clueless about life as I am and I'm really not a fan of how people put an emphasis on certain words pretending like they mean something.

"Omg, did he really say we can't forgive him instead of i can't forgive him???"
Yes he did and it's not like he thought for half a second about which of the two he was gonna say.

Seriously, you can't expect a 20 y.o. to formulate every sentence he spontaneously says like he's the 2nd coming of Shakespeare. There are certain things he might not find the perfect words for and there are certain moments when his youth makes him exaggerate a bit to say things he doesn't actually mean. As long as he doesn't say anything with a clearly bad intent, leave the boy alone. If he is as good as most of us think you'll have much better reasons to dislike him soon enough.

 

[Red Rick]

It's really a change of perspective for me to see how people and the media talk about a rider that is younger than me. I guess growing up and getting older, even when you are technically an adult already, you always think there must come some point when all of a sudden you are wise and have a clue about anything. You always assume that pro athletes or really any sort of celebrity must know what they are talking of, they are adults after all. Now that I'm older than some of those guys I just realize that Remco is probably about as clueless about life as I am and I'm really not a fan of how people put an emphasis on certain words pretending like they mean something.

"Omg, did he really say we can't forgive him instead of i can't forgive him???"
Yes he did and it's not like he thought for half a second about which of the two he was gonna say.

Seriously, you can't expect a 20 y.o. to formulate every sentence he spontaneously says like he's the 2nd coming of Shakespeare. There are certain things he might not find the perfect words for and there are certain moments when his youth makes him exaggerate a bit to say things he doesn't actually mean. As long as he doesn't say anything with a clearly bad intent, leave the boy alone. If he is as good as most of us think you'll have much better reasons to dislike him soon enough.

In my opinion the general standard for young athletes is embarrassingly low, precisely because any time an athlete we like does something stupid we handwave it away with "he's still young". Now with that said, I think in this case people are just extremely defensive on Groenewegen for some reason to the point that I've never seen as many people complain about Lefevre being a **** because he talked about suing Groenewegen, which IMO is like the only time he is more right than wrong.

I'm a little disturbed by how many people seem more offended about Evenepoel speaking out than about Groenewegen nearly killing a rival. And I don't even like Evenepoel.

Cognitive dissonance is one of the scariest drugs out there

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

In my opinion the general standard for young athletes is embarrassingly low, precisely because any time an athlete we like does something stupid we handwave it away with "he's still young". Now with that said, I think in this case people are just extremely defensive on Groenewegen for some reason to the point that I've never seen as many people complain about Lefevre being a **** because he talked about suing Groenewegen, which IMO is like the only time he is more right than wrong.

I'm a little disturbed by how many people seem more offended about Evenepoel speaking out than about Groenewegen nearly killing a rival. And I don't even like Evenepoel.

Cognitive dissonance is one of the scariest drugs out there

It's amazing the different standard people are held to. There are 35 year old football (soccer) superstars running their mouth on a weekly basis, this is normal. A 20-21 year old cyclist brushes his shoulder after winning or speaks out on a teammate being put in a coma, and he's "a nasty little ***, isn't he?"
So it's not just "athletes" in general but it seems to differ from sport to sport.

And i don't agree with your assessment of waving it away because he's still young. Those guys have generally lived a completely different life from you and me. In Evenepoel's case, even more so, because he lived with strangers for 4 years. Everything revolves about them being athletes, not about them being young, at an early age. Can you imagine what it's like moving to a different family at the age of 11? There was no boyscouts, no lingering on the playground after school to play with your school buddies, no hanging out late at night in bars at 16 or 17. I think these guys had a completely different social life in their forming years, and that means different social skills.

We are currently on a forum with people who likely had a regular upbringing, most of which are much older than 20, and the amount of dumb *** you have to read on a daily basis is staggering. Yet we hold those guys to a higher standard despite their age, despite their (in most cases) limited education. So i do think we should cut those guys some slack, and not put everything under a microscope.

 

[Extinction]

Sport is ruthless and in cycling the consequences can be devestating. Groenewegen surely didn't intend to kill his rival. He broke the rules with a horrible result and paid the consequences. The heat of the moment explains the mistake and for every 100000 races this is bound to happen (thankfully every 99999 it does not). It cannot be avoided statistically, just as in life there can be no gaurantees. All enter the race with this possible outcome, like a lottery. Put 200 racers with the same end goal and the risks are high, even if thankfully infrequent. And racers must be, by nature, ruthless, and managing ruthlessness is always rought with pitfalls. A race is not normal life, riders become primordial just to survive. I'm sure Evenepoel is well aware of this.

 

[memyselfandI]

There was these two other factors that caused more destruction in this case than normal median crashes; super high speed downhill sprint and bad barrier construction (and or structures).

Talk gets around Groenewegen bit too much in that sense imho. Compared against crashes I've seen in telly in last 30 yrs, DG didn't anything exceptional to cause what happened, speed and barriers just multiplied it so awfully.

It's pity DQS, with or without RE, do not much to turn discussion more towards this.

 

[Red Rick]

There was these two other factors that caused more destruction in this case than normal median crashes; super high speed downhill sprint and bad barrier construction (and or structures).

Talk gets around Groenewegen bit too much in that sense imho. Compared against crashes I've seen in telly in last 30 yrs, DG didn't anything exceptional to cause what happened, speed and barriers just multiplied it so awfully.

It's pity DQS, with or without RE, do not much to turn discussion more towards this.

Nah from what I've seen it's like 80% the organisation and UCI getting the blame.

Cause ofcourse Groenewegen doesn't have to know that crashes are more dangerous at 80kph than at 60

 

[Extinction]

There was these two other factors that caused more destruction in this case than normal median crashes; super high speed downhill sprint and bad barrier construction (and or structures).

Talk gets around Groenewegen bit too much in that sense imho. Compared against crashes I've seen in telly in last 30 yrs, DG didn't anything exceptional to cause what happened, speed and barriers just multiplied it so awfully.

It's pity DQS, with or without RE, do not much to turn discussion more towards this.

True bad course design, heat of the moment all-out competition and poor in-race choice over time leads to eventual catastrophe. It comes with the territory, just as does Fabio Casartelli tragically riding into a wall on a Pyrennean descent and smashing his skull. Either the cyclist is all wrong (sometimes yes, of course) or the sport has such inherent prospects, horrific thought they may be.

 

[Valv.Piti]

I really just got into cycling 1-2 weeks ago again, whats the news on this badboy? Im lazy, and slightly worried.

 

[Red Rick]

It's amazing the different standard people are held to. There are 35 year old football (soccer) superstars running their mouth on a weekly basis, this is normal. A 20-21 year old cyclist brushes his shoulder after winning or speaks out on a teammate being put in a coma, and he's "a nasty little ***, isn't he?"
So it's not just "athletes" in general but it seems to differ from sport to sport.

And i don't agree with your assessment of waving it away because he's still young. Those guys have generally lived a completely different life from you and me. In Evenepoel's case, even more so, because he lived with strangers for 4 years. Everything revolves about them being athletes, not about them being young, at an early age. Can you imagine what it's like moving to a different family at the age of 11? There was no boyscouts, no lingering on the playground after school to play with your school buddies, no hanging out late at night in bars at 16 or 17. I think these guys had a completely different social life in their forming years, and that means different social skills.

We are currently on a forum with people who likely had a regular upbringing, most of which are much older than 20, and the amount of dumb *** you have to read on a daily basis is staggering. Yet we hold those guys to a higher standard despite their age, despite their (in most cases) limited education. So i do think we should cut those guys some slack, and not put everything under a microscope.

If people are gonna be put on a pedestal I'm not inclined to hold them to lower standards. Which seems to be the standard, ironically enough.