Teams & Riders The Remco Evenepoel is the next Eddy Merckx thread

[Big Doopie]

15 monuments and 6 Worlds? No pressure, right?

lol

missed the point again

funny that u specifically leave out the point of my post.

oh wait I just want to argue something no one is arguing. Lol.

 

[Big Doopie]

I hope those are just random numbers you wrote in your post. Because I'm sorry to tell you, but there is a much bigger chance he ends up winning 0 LBLs, 0 Lombardias and 0 Worlds. I don't think he'll stay at zero, but those numbers you've put out are just ridiculous.

missed the point again as well

interesting that you do not quote my very specific juxtaposition... but no matter, u just want to argue.

point is: he is an extraordinary talent. How that talent ultimately manifests itself is as yet undertermined, GTs or one day races. I think you knew my point but u r just searching desperately and pathetically for an argument no one but you wants to have lol.

 

[LesDiablesRouges]

He's around 86-88% back to form. He's not in his 2020 form. He's going to lose some stages he should win because his sprint is non-existent.

He's better on long hilly rides where he can push the tempo and blow his competitors up.

The off-season will be critical for his development as he needs to develop some semblance of a kick.

 

[jaylew]

lol

missed the point again

funny that u specifically leave out the point of my post.

oh wait I just want to argue something no one is arguing. Lol.

Oh, relax. I just thought your post was hilarious with those numbers and it's that kind of exaggerated stuff that gives his detractors fuel. I'm not arguing anything as I mostly agree with you and I understand the point you're attempting to make perfectly well but you would have done a better job if you had said something more reasonable.

As I've said before, I have no doubt he'll have a really nice palmares when it's all said and done, there's just no telling how it will be comprised at this point. I could see him being a top GT guy, a top one day racer, both, or neither. The only thing that seems certain already is that he's going to win a ton of 3-8 day stage races with tts. After that, nothing would really surprise me barring him becoming a bunch sprinter. I feel similarly about Pidcock. As talented as they are, it's hard for me to imagine either of those guys failing but it's too soon to really know where their ultimate focus and successes will be.

 

[Bolder]

After pulling them for 32k? His priority was getting time.

Yes, I do expect THE GREAT REMCO EVENEPOEL to drop 2 relatively anonymous non-WT guys in a short, moderately hilly stage of the BBT. Or at least try. Or at least strike a deal in which they get to go for the win in return for at least a few strong pulls, which would gain him some more time. But it was nice of him to give them a free ride AND the win...

I dunno, this thread is weird. Can't tell if serious when people speculate that he'll win every single WT race then defend him when he misses a chance for a relatlvely easy win. And yes, I watched the race yesterday.

 

[Pinot's goat]

Yes, I do expect THE GREAT REMCO EVENEPOEL to drop 2 relatively anonymous non-WT guys in a short, moderately hilly stage of the BBT. Or at least try. Or at least strike a deal in which they get to go for the win in return for at least a few strong pulls, which would gain him some more time. But it was nice of him to give them a free ride AND the win...

I dunno, this thread is weird. Can't tell if serious when people speculate that he'll win every single WT race then defend him when he misses a chance for a relatlvely easy win. And yes, I watched the race yesterday.

It's quite amazing that you have made out Evenepoel going solo and winning the GC against a large group of strong riders is a negative performance.

 

[limak_]

Yes, I do expect THE GREAT REMCO EVENEPOEL to drop 2 relatively anonymous non-WT guys in a short, moderately hilly stage of the BBT. Or at least try. Or at least strike a deal in which they get to go for the win in return for at least a few strong pulls, which would gain him some more time. But it was nice of him to give them a free ride AND the win...

I dunno, this thread is weird. Can't tell if serious when people speculate that he'll win every single WT race then defend him when he misses a chance for a relatlvely easy win. And yes, I watched the race yesterday.

You really act as this was at least a stage of the Tour de France
Like it was said, Remco didn't give a sh*t about stage win, he focused to gain as much time in GC as possible. He actually tried to "strike a deal" but no one wanted to cooperate - and I'm not surprised, those guys were hardly hanging on his wheel (look Campenaerts). Remco could've tried to drop them on one of the hills, but for what reason? Those were really short hills, the speed was very high all the time, it was very likely for him he won't succed to do that. Instead he would've cook himself with those accelerations and maybe being caught by the bunch.
And one more thing, Ghys, the guy who outsprinted him is a former European Champ in madison on track. So as for a "relatively anonymous non-WT guy" he is a quick, very quick guy.

His sprint and general lack of explosiveness is his biggest limitation in terms of future possible wins in one day races or stages like today, that's obvious and it's been also repeated here on and on. Unless he improves it significantly, the only possible way of him winning classics is by long solo attacks. Is he able to get that so many wins this way? Who knows.

I agree that it's extremely ridiculous in this thread, that pepole extrapolate his results so far to make predtictions how many classics, GTs and other races he'll win. The fact is, we didn't even have any occassion so far to see him in any of the classics (apart of that one in which he crashed) or in any of the GTs (this year's Giro with this kind of preparation doesn't say anything). The only thing we know for sure is that, he is and probably will be quite dominant in 1-week races. Anything more than that is imho useless speculation atm. He might as well win 10 classics as 0 of them, he might as well win 6 GTs as 0 of them.

 

[Bolder]

It's quite amazing that you have made out Evenepoel going solo and winning the GC against a large group of strong riders is a negative performance.

Why is he immune to criticism? I love Alaphilippe, for example, but I can admit when he races like an idiot. I'm not saying Remco was an idiot, but I think it's fair game to say he didn't play that 100% correctly?

Edited to add: It was indeed a great play to get the GC but I think many of us can also expect a win in that situation, given the expectations for Remco ahead of almost any race he enters that he'll pull out a miracle, same was with MvDP, Wout etc)

 

[Bolder]

You really act as this was at least a stage of the Tour de France
Like it was said, Remco didn't give a sh*t about stage win, he focused to gain as much time in GC as possible. He actually tried to "strike a deal" but no one wanted to cooperate - and I'm not surprised, those guys were hardly hanging on his wheel (look Campenaerts). Remco could've tried to drop them on one of the hills, but for what reason? Those were really short hills, the speed was very high all the time, it was very likely for him he won't succed to do that. Instead he would've cook himself with those accelerations and maybe being caught by the bunch.
And one more thing, Ghys, the guy who outsprinted him is a former European Champ in madison on track. So as for a "relatively anonymous non-WT guy" he is a quick, very quick guy.

His sprint and general lack of explosiveness is his biggest limitation in terms of future possible wins in one day races or stages like today, that's obvious and it's been also repeated here on and on. Unless he improves it significantly, the only possible way of him winning classics is by long solo attacks. Is he able to get that so many wins this way? Who knows.

I agree that it's extremely ridiculous in this thread, that pepole extrapolate his results so far to make predtictions how many classics, GTs and other races he'll win. The fact is, we didn't even have any occassion so far to see him in any of the classics (apart of that one in which he crashed) or in any of the GTs (this year's Giro with this kind of preparation doesn't say anything). The only thing we know for sure is that, he is and probably will be quite dominant in 1-week races. Anything more than that is imho useless speculation atm. He might as well win 10 classics as 0 of them, he might as well win 6 GTs as 0 of them.

Clearly it wasn't a TdF stage, so it should have been easy for him!

My point -- and my only point -- is that I don't think he played the final 10-20k of the stage as well as he could have. Yeah, in hindsight, he probably had very good reasons to race the way he was, but at the time it looked to me (and the announcers, and probably a majority of posters on here...) that he wasn't racing smart. It's nice to be strong, but even nicer to win, I think.

In the end, he'll probably win the overall, and maybe even another stage, so it won't really matter but it was kind of meh.

And, for the record, I'm a huge Evenepoel fan. I even thought that racing the Giro with zero prep was a good idea!

 

[Carrick-On-Seine]

Clearly it wasn't a TdF stage, so it should have been easy for him!

My point -- and my only point -- is that I don't think he played the final 10-20k of the stage as well as he could have. Yeah, in hindsight, he probably had very good reasons to race the way he was, but at the time it looked to me (and the announcers, and probably a majority of posters on here...) that he wasn't racing smart. It's nice to be strong, but even nicer to win, I think.

In the end, he'll probably win the overall, and maybe even another stage, so it won't really matter but it was kind of meh.

And, for the record, I'm a huge Evenepoel fan. I even thought that racing the Giro with zero prep was a good idea!

The announcers were totally devoid of any analysis of the race situation though. If it was a one day race he would have had to choose a moment to put in the turbo boost but I imagine the car was telling him to concentrate on the time to the reduced peloton. He obviously tried to get them to work but they wouldn't/couldn't so the last part of the race was simply trying to keep the gap from the rest of the potential GC contenders. It wasn't classic Remco but he managed to maintain the gap despite an effort from a pretty committed Alpecin team. Seemed like a more than decent day's work.

 

[Blanco]

missed the point again as well

interesting that you do not quote my very specific juxtaposition... but no matter, u just want to argue.

point is: he is an extraordinary talent. How that talent ultimately manifests itself is as yet undertermined, GTs or one day races. I think you knew my point but u r just searching desperately and pathetically for an argument no one but you wants to have lol.

And what if that extraordinary talent doesn't manifests itself in neither GT's nor Monuments, which is a possibility given his obvious flaws for both kind of races (no sprint, no explosivity, questionable recovery, poor descending, etc)?
I see that many around here already gave Remco a ton of wins, in advance, and frankly I must admit that I've seen bigger talents than him, especially for those two type of races, which are the most important in road cycling.

 

[Netserk]

Can the tread title be renamed to "The Sacred Temple of Remco Evenepoel", just so that it is clear that anything but praise is profane.

 

[Riek s]

And what if that extraordinary talent doesn't manifests itself in neither GT's nor Monuments, which is a possibility given his obvious flaws for both kind of races (no sprint, no explosivity, questionable recovery, poor descending, etc)?
I see that many around here already gave Remco a ton of wins, in advance, and frankly I must admit that I've seen bigger talents than him, especially for those two type of races, which are the most important in road cycling.

Talent is hard to express.... Remco is a major talent, but he will never win the amount of races the likes MVP can win or Cavendish for that matter. That doesn't necessarily make him less talented, just that his talent is less suited to win certain races.
I think the talents he has is very badly scoped for one day races because of his lack of explosiveness. That doesn't mean he can't win one (already won a classic and was close in another) but he will need to do it differently than Alaphilippe/vdp/wvt/Gilbert/... but shleck also won classics and i believe him to be just as big as a pancake in terms of explosion as Remco.

Explosiveness/sprint in a GT is not that impactful. Yes it can help you win boni seconds or distance someone at the end of the climb (if you are still with him). Indurain was also not an explosive rider, yet he is also on of the biggest talents we have seen and won multiple GT.

 

[LesDiablesRouges]

Why is he immune to criticism? I love Alaphilippe, for example, but I can admit when he races like an idiot. I'm not saying Remco was an idiot, but I think it's fair game to say he didn't play that 100% correctly?

Edited to add: It was indeed a great play to get the GC but I think many of us can also expect a win in that situation, given the expectations for Remco ahead of almost any race he enters that he'll pull out a miracle, same was with MvDP, Wout etc)

He’s not immune to criticism. He tried to get the rest of break to work and they couldn’t or elected not to do so.

He didn’t want to turn himself inside out because he wanted to maximize his shot of winning the ITT today.

What’s the point of critiquing him on something he has little control over, his lack of sprinting.

Sure, not winning was a bad look, but I’d imagine that he would raced differently had that been a I’ve day race.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

And what if that extraordinary talent doesn't manifests itself in neither GT's nor Monuments, which is a possibility given his obvious flaws for both kind of races (no sprint, no explosivity, questionable recovery, poor descending, etc)?
I see that many around here already gave Remco a ton of wins, in advance, and frankly I must admit that I've seen bigger talents than him, especially for those two type of races, which are the most important in road cycling.

Based on what though? Whatever those talents ended up proving? In that case you are dismissing Evenepoel a bit early, dismissing his chances to recover, grow stronger, work on his weaknesses. Or based on what they showed on an early age? In that case i couldn't disagree more. If you are looking at what is happening this moment, a failed Giro, not being able to drop everyone at will like in a computer game, then you are simply being disingenuous, considering the circumstances. One failed Giro where we know the prep was far from ideal, and suddenly everything gets called into question. A bit laughable really. As if it somehow erases everything we've seen prior.

And what if... And what if the exact opposite happens of your hypothesis?

 

[Savant12]

40 pages back and the Remcofans were expecting a Giro victory after one good TT and a decent enough first week. They thought he was going to crush everyone on Zoncolan because it suited him. Then, "Bambi on ice" happened and the numerous descents where Remco went MIA.

For sure, he is not the next Eddy Merckx.

 

[spalco]

40 pages back and the Remcofans were expecting a Giro victory after one good TT and a decent enough first week. They thought he was going to crush everyone on Zoncolan because it suited him. Then, "Bambi on ice" happened and the numerous descents where Remco went MIA.

For sure, he is not the next Eddy Merckx.

Literally nobody thought Remco would "crush everyone on the Zoncolan", except maybe as a joke, but I think not even that. Show me the quote. And please don't include troll accounts like that lefevre guy or whatever he calls himself.

People were cautiously optimistic, in week 1, but that's all. Didn't work out, we'll see if it's an outlier or indicative of his future.

It is clear he'll have a fine career as a pro, he's already proven that. If he doesn't turn out to GTs and/or monuments, and "just" wins ***-small-1-week-races, of course people will be disappointed. But it is what it is.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

40 pages back and the Remcofans were expecting a Giro victory after one good TT and a decent enough first week. They thought he was going to crush everyone on Zoncolan because it suited him. Then, "Bambi on ice" happened and the numerous descents where Remco went MIA.

For sure, he is not the next Eddy Merckx.

These posts are always hilarious. Basically every Evenepoel fan knew he wasn't 100% or he would have finished higher in the ITT. Just because you claim something happened, doesn't make it so.

 

[Red Rick]

40 pages back and the Remcofans were expecting a Giro victory after one good TT and a decent enough first week. They thought he was going to crush everyone on Zoncolan because it suited him. Then, "Bambi on ice" happened and the numerous descents where Remco went MIA.

For sure, he is not the next Eddy Merckx.

Tbh Merckx wouldn't nearly win the same amount of races in the current period either.

 

[Blanco]

We don't know what will happen, of course. I can only tell you what I have seen up until now. I've seen a young rider who has an incredible engine, but has some significant flaws, which could largely affect his future success in the very biggest races.
Now, he will improve of course, but the question is how much.
He will never have the speed of Van Der Poel or explosivity of Alaphilippe, and that will affect his performance in biggest one-day races. It will be harder for him to win it. He must do it on pure strength and that's not easy nowadays. He will win his share of that races, but my gut tells me that share won't be that big.
Now for GT's things look brighter imo. His TT is superb, and his climbing is already good and likely will improve. Descending is the issue, and I would say recovery also, for now. He should improve in the latter, but it is evident that he's not a natural, like Pogacar for example. Also as I said he's a good climber, but he will face absolute monsters in that category, like Pogacar and Bernal. Frankly I'm not so sure he will reach their level. All in all I can see him as a GT winner, but he'll have tough competition.
Where I see him win the most is ITT's and stage races that include them. He'll win a lot of that races.
To summarize, I think he'll be a hell of a rider, but only not just that much of a rider many of you around here think.

 

[Red Rick]

Won't question recovery until he actually preps for a GT and bonks it.

I think the simple question is if he can climb with the Bernals and Pogacars of this world.

 

[geisterhome]

Yes, I do expect THE GREAT REMCO EVENEPOEL to drop 2 relatively anonymous non-WT guys in a short, moderately hilly stage of the BBT. Or at least try. Or at least strike a deal in which they get to go for the win in return for at least a few strong pulls, which would gain him some more time. But it was nice of him to give them a free ride AND the win...

I dunno, this thread is weird. Can't tell if serious when people speculate that he'll win every single WT race then defend him when he misses a chance for a relatlvely easy win. And yes, I watched the race yesterday.

Yea weird race, if he would have been alone (I mean he practially was anyways, not getting any help by the other two) and held off the peleton like he did you can think about what amazing performance that was. But he was not able to shake the two nonames on a course which featured quite a few climbs. I rather question the chasing effort by the peloton in that case.

 

[red_flanders]

Yes, I do expect THE GREAT REMCO EVENEPOEL to drop 2 relatively anonymous non-WT guys in a short, moderately hilly stage of the BBT. Or at least try. Or at least strike a deal in which they get to go for the win in return for at least a few strong pulls, which would gain him some more time. But it was nice of him to give them a free ride AND the win...

I dunno, this thread is weird. Can't tell if serious when people speculate that he'll win every single WT race then defend him when he misses a chance for a relatlvely easy win. And yes, I watched the race yesterday.

Not sure why the last bit is addressed to me, as I’m not claiming anything about what he might win or not. Theses guys are professional cyclists. If you tow them for 30+ k you’re going to have a hard time dropping them at the end.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

We don't know what will happen, of course. I can only tell you what I have seen up until now. I've seen a young rider who has an incredible engine, but has some significant flaws, which could largely affect his future success in the very biggest races.
Now, he will improve of course, but the question is how much.
He will never have the speed of Van Der Poel or explosivity of Alaphilippe, and that will affect his performance in biggest one-day races. It will be harder for him to win it. He must do it on pure strength and that's not easy nowadays. He will win his share of that races, but my gut tells me that share won't be that big.
Now for GT's things look brighter imo. His TT is superb, and his climbing is already good and likely will improve. Descending is the issue, and I would say recovery also, for now. He should improve in the latter, but it is evident that he's not a natural, like Pogacar for example. Also as I said he's a good climber, but he will face absolute monsters in that category, like Pogacar and Bernal. Frankly I'm not so sure he will reach their level. All in all I can see him as a GT winner, but he'll have tough competition.
Where I see him win the most is ITT's and stage races that include them. He'll win a lot of that races.
To summarize, I think he'll be a hell of a rider, but only not just that much of a rider many of you around here think.

lol
He's shown nothing but amazing recovery in every race ever, except the Giro of which we know he had an extremely limited prep. But yeah, "recovery is the issue". Oh, he can't sprint like van der Poel? He should retire then, because obviously Bernal, Carapaz and Pogacar they blast van der Poel out of the water. You're comparing apples with oranges just whatever fits your argument. Let's ignore the fact that he's a woldclass ITT'er as opposed to for instance Bernal, but hey, that's just a minor detail for a GC rider, amirite.

Or we could wait for him to get in decent shape before judging his recovery in a GT. We could also try to remain realistic and realize he, nor any other GC rider, will have the same punch as van der Poel. And we could try and be honest with our assessment regarding his GC skills, and include his TT. But of course, that's just my opinion.

 

[spalco]

I thought Blanco's assessment was pretty fair. It might be obvious he's not sprinting like MVdP, but it's also true. And his 3-week-recovery remains questionable until he shows he has it .