Teams & Riders The Remco Evenepoel is the next Eddy Merckx thread

[Extinction]

That WOULD have been the perfect plan, but somebody (Remco likely ) decided to freelance and show his hand too early. We now know Wout didn't have it, so logically having Remco attack in the last third of the race could have created a winning moment in which he just rides away solo, with wout and stuyven running interference and forcing everyone else to work behind.

But he went in the first third instead and couldn't pull off the planned later attack successfully. The post mortem zoom call must have been a party...

This completely ignores the fact that the DS flatly told Remco that under no circumstances would he have been able to ride for the win. I figure the kid then, perhaps even out of spite, which was certainly his perogative, decided to aply his role with incautious zeal. But he could have never known that Wout would have utterly failed to deliver in the end, especially because he was pressed to believe that Van Aert was Superman, not least by Van Aert himself. What a major F-up on the part of the Belgian team planners and authorities. Had Van Aert actually won, everyone would only be praising Remco's sacrificing efforts. So it's really poor form now, after the debacle of how to use Remco and Wout's colossal failure, to be so hostile to Evenepoel. Some soul searching needs to be done here, not on the part of Evenepoel, and for once I completely agree with Horner, but by Wout, Steuven and the DS.

 

[Blanco]

He's more versatile, but in this race he also had only one option: Outlast all sprinters and win the sprint from a group of favorites. Same amount of options that Evenepoel had: go from far. Which is an option Van Aert does not have.

But your last two posts bring us back to the initial problem: not including Evenepoel as a valid contender. And Van Aert was very happy with that, it gave him piece of mind.

Van Aert has plenty of options on this course, but he somehow believed it would go down to a sprint. He could go from far too, or do you think he hasn't got the engine?

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Van Aert has plenty of options on this course, but he somehow believed it would go down to a sprint. He could go from far too, or do you think he hasn't got the engine?

I'm not convinced he can finish a 270k race with a solo, no. He won the Ventoux stage solo and he won Strade Bianchi with a short-ish solo. Other than that i can't recall any victory of him ending with a solo. Furthermore, i'm slowly getting the impression that long hard monument type races might be less his cup of tea than we originally thought. He's faded one too many times to ignore it.
But on this course, he could have perhaps gone solo in the last or penultimate lap. But i wouldn't know how he would have done that considering he was the biggest favorite and his wheel would have been marked up the wazoo. In retrospect he was never going to drop Alaphilippe here, and likely a bunch of other contenders either. Evenepoel actually had a shot at beating Alaphilippe in case he attacked from further out than the Frenchman, which indeed would never have been an option for Van Aert.

 

[tobydawq]

I'm not convinced he can finish a 270k race with a solo, no. He won the Ventoux stage solo and he won Strade Bianchi with a short-ish solo. Other than that i can't recall any victory of him ending with a solo. Furthermore, i'm slowly getting the impression that long hard monument type races might be less his cup of tea than we originally thought. He's faded one too many times to ignore it.
But on this course, he could have perhaps gone solo in the last or penultimate lap. But i wouldn't know how he would have done that considering he was the biggest favorite and his wheel would have been marked up the wazoo. In retrospect he was never going to drop Alaphilippe here, and likely a bunch of other contenders either. Evenepoel actually had a shot at beating Alaphilippe in case he attacked from further out than the Frenchman, which indeed would never have been an option for Van Aert.

I just think he relies a lot on his sprint and doesn't think he has to go solo. I certainly think he has the capacity to do it.

Also, we don't know that Remco can do it after 260 kilometers, either.

 

[Salvarani]

I mean, if Im only going by what most of the people in the team are saying that have been closest to the situation... it seems one person wasnt really being a team player. Whether that is hundred percent true is another story, nor do I think that person is entirely at fault here. Mistakes were made all around this mess.

If I am just going by what multiple people are saying though that kind of follows a pattern it might just be the closest thing to the truth, more than someone going by their own truth.

I dont know. Not looking for a debate or argument. Just an observation.

 

[Red Rick]

It's also just very hard to gauge what Evenepoel could've done had he not spent all that energy.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

I just think he relies a lot on his sprint and doesn't think he has to go solo. I certainly think he has the capacity to do it.

Also, we don't know that Remco can do it after 260 kilometers, either.

Evenepoel pulled off the front with +/- 25k to go and went all out more than anyone in the race. That was after 240+ km. He has won 4 races with a solo of +/-200k (the race, i mean) and he won 2 races of 220-230k with a solo. None of Van Aert's two solo's was in a race over 200k. I don't think it's far fetched to say that in that regard Evenepoel has shown quite a bit more potential than Van Aert, both in longer races (230k), as with longer solos (60k).

 

[tobydawq]

Evenepoel pulled off the front with +/- 25k to go and went all out more than anyone in the race. That was after 240+ km. He has won 4 races with a solo of +/-200k (the race, i mean) and he won 2 races of 220-230k with a solo. None of Van Aert's two solo's was in a race over 200k. I don't think it's far fetched to say that in that regard Evenepoel has shown quite a bit more potential than Van Aert, both in longer races (230k), as with longer solos (60k).

Don't get me wrong, I also think Remco can do it, but it's hardly a proven fact yet (I don't see why he shouldn't be able to, though).

And I maintain that Van Aert has had lesser reason to go solo than Remco (it almost seems as though it never crosses his mind to try to ride away solo) but given his general characteristics, I definitely don't think we can rule it out that it's something he potentially can do.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Don't get me wrong, I also think Remco can do it, but it's hardly a proven fact yet (I don't see why he shouldn't be able to, though).

And I maintain that Van Aert has had lesser reason to go solo than Remco (it almost seems as though it never crosses his mind to try to ride away solo) but given his general characteristics, I definitely don't think we can rule it out that it's something he potentially can do.

Of course, and i agree with your general assessment. But i'm also looking at the amount of 250+ k races where Van Aert simply faded. Granted, he has also performed superbly in a few longer races, but so far the amount of long races where he was a favorite and didn't even come close, outnumbers the amount of longer races where he competed for the win. I think his best performance in a long hard race, was his silver medal at the olympics and last year's WCC. When it comes to WT monuments, it's a bit less impressive.

 

[tobydawq]

Of course, and i agree with your general assessment. But i'm also looking at the amount of 250+ k races where Van Aert simply faded. Granted, he has also performed superbly in a few longer races, but so far the amount of long races where he was a favorite and didn't even come close, outnumbers the amount of longer races where he competed for the win. I think his best performance in a long hard race, was his silver medal at the olympics and last year's WCC. When it comes to WT monuments, it's a bit less impressive.

I wouldn't be too worried about that. I think he has been hurt a bit by his own generosity and in PR 2019 he spent more time chasing the peloton than being inside it; nevertheless he made the final selection before he cracked in the end.

I think his only worrying performances have come this year and both in the spring and the fall it's likely that he was fatigued from his previous races.

 

[LesDiablesRouges]

As always if it is Belgian it must therefore turn to ***. I think Remco should have attended the meeting. The Belgian tactics were disastrous. Putting a cap on Evenepoel was insane.

Sure all things being equal Wout winning would have been ideal, but you have to have multiple plans. Burning your Plan B was unconscionable.

 

[Red Rick]

Of course, and i agree with your general assessment. But i'm also looking at the amount of 250+ k races where Van Aert simply faded. Granted, he has also performed superbly in a few longer races, but so far the amount of long races where he was a favorite and didn't even come close, outnumbers the amount of longer races where he competed for the win. I think his best performance in a long hard race, was his silver medal at the olympics and last year's WCC. When it comes to WT monuments, it's a bit less impressive.

I could actually believe Evenepoel would be the best at long solos. But van Aert never really has had to try.

That also doesn't really need to mean the endurance specifically is super great. A guy like Valverde rarely cranks out any solos yet I'd say his endurance is pretty up there.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

I could actually believe Evenepoel would be the best at long solos. But van Aert never really has had to try.

That also doesn't really need to mean the endurance specifically is super great. A guy like Valverde rarely cranks out any solos yet I'd say his endurance is pretty up there.

Sure, which is why i was referring to his performances in mainly RVV and PR, which are arguably the races he would excel in, but so far has only competed for the win 1/6.

 

[Oldermanish]

Don't get me wrong, I also think Remco can do it, but it's hardly a proven fact yet (I don't see why he shouldn't be able to, though).

And I maintain that Van Aert has had lesser reason to go solo than Remco (it almost seems as though it never crosses his mind to try to ride away solo) but given his general characteristics, I definitely don't think we can rule it out that it's something he potentially can do.

It's difficult to go solo when everyone in the race is marking you and that's why the course and how everyone responds makes the race. Van Aert had a very long season up to this point and he may have attempted to will himself into late....very late form. It's fine if you try and don't succeed on your own accord but that all of the Belgium had an opinion and expectation before the race even started is hubris.
Fans can afford hubris, unless they're betting the house mortgage money on an event. A team assembled of stars from different pro squads shouldn't kid themselves, thought and begin marking they're territory pre-race. Team management is responsible for keeping a lid on that to the point members could be sidelined and not included. How many years were Italian and Spanish teams stacked with talent and came up short?

 

[Ripper]

Haha, Horner weighs in about Stuyven and Van Aert

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uoNtl58FKN8&t=17s

Too funny. All the LOLzzzzzzzzz

 

[cellardoor]

In my opinion, Evenepoel is too much of a unique talent to waste him working on the front of a small group for a leader. He should have been given a free role to follow dangerous moves or go on the attack in the last 70k or so. Having said that, he was overzealous in following the move of Cosnefroy, but that's forgivable considering he's inexperienced. Had the team manager not brow-beaten him into a role he wasn't happy with, there may have been more unity in the team and Evenepoel may have then hung back and talked to Van Aert before deciding whether to move across to the group when the likes of Asgreen did.

I think the Belgian team made a fundamental mistake in telegraphing the fact that they would be all-in for a sprint for Van Aert. The other teams knew what they need to do to stop that happening. if anything, they should have been playing up Evenepoel.

 

[wheresmybrakes]

Looks like Remco came 5th best in Flandrien of the year. If only they didn't have him work on the front when he had the best legs. The team tactics were shameful again! They should have had some other disposable dom do all the chasing, leaving him to do his own thing and............oh crap, sorry, it wasn't an actual race, never mind. I'm sure it will be someone else's fault he didn't win this.

 

[Carrick-On-Seine]

Looks like Remco came 5th best in Flandrien of the year. If only they didn't have him work on the front when he had the best legs. The team tactics were shameful again! They should have had some other disposable dom do all the chasing, leaving him to do his own thing and............oh crap, sorry, it wasn't an actual race, never mind. I'm sure it will be someone else's fault he didn't win this.

It was definitely all Remco's fault. If he hadn't ridden away at 180km or wherever it was, Van Aert would have not just been Flandrien of the Year but also a winner of one of the ten major races last season. Bad, bad Remco.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Well, i was a bit surprised to find two articles/columns by a Dutch cycling site, for the first time (to my knowledge, at least for Dutch media) presenting some critical viewpoints on the surreal amount of hate Evenepoel gets. While the most famous Dutch columnist (still after three years) insists on calling him "Eddy Evenepoel", after one of the most famous Dutch cycling podcasts (De Rode Lantaarn) being self-proclaimed avid Evenepoel haters, and the most famous Dutch cycling website Wielerflits, being overeager in posting anything Evenepoel related because they know it drives dozens if not hundreds of raging "cycling lovers" to the comment section (click click click) it was nothing short of both baffling and refreshing to read two articles on "In de Leiderstrui".

Column: Een polonaise voor de Sloveense Van der Poel als perfecte ode aan de wielersport

Nationalisme is een rare eigenschap. Als iemand in hetzelfde

www.indeleiderstrui.nl

The crazy thing is, however, that there are not one, but maybe five or six riders like Van der Poel. Van Aert won a flat stage, a mountain stage and a time trial in the Tour. Such a jewel. He has a Dutch father and drives for Jumbo-Visma, so his fan base in the Netherlands is quite large. The respect for Van Aert is enormous. That is already less at Evenepoel, who has no Dutch link. In fact: he is a real Belgian, with his heart on his tongue. You immediately notice this on social media. A spicy statement is suddenly not cool or daring, as with Van der Poel, but arrogant and stupid. When Evenepoel says that he wants to challenge the established order in 2022, people laugh at him. If Van der Poel says that he will participate at Wimbledon tomorrow, he is highly regarded.

Column: Als Evenepoel moet zwijgen, laten we dat dan in godsnaam maar met zijn allen doen

Het waren pittige uitspraken van Jasper Stuyven in Het Nieuw

www.indeleiderstrui.nl

At the same time, the aversion to Evenepoel is beginning to take on bizarre forms. What surprised me recently is that there was no massive uproar about the fact that the Belgian's family received threatening letters . It has been on several websites, but otherwise few have publicly paid much attention to it. However, it is another low point in the hooligan-like corner that the cycling world apparently also has.

 

[Oldermanish]

In my opinion, Evenepoel is too much of a unique talent to waste him working on the front of a small group for a leader. He should have been given a free role to follow dangerous moves or go on the attack in the last 70k or so. Having said that, he was overzealous in following the move of Cosnefroy, but that's forgivable considering he's inexperienced. Had the team manager not brow-beaten him into a role he wasn't happy with, there may have been more unity in the team and Evenepoel may have then hung back and talked to Van Aert before deciding whether to move across to the group when the likes of Asgreen did.

I think the Belgian team made a fundamental mistake in telegraphing the fact that they would be all-in for a sprint for Van Aert. The other teams knew what they need to do to stop that happening. if anything, they should have been playing up Evenepoel.

Your logic places blame on the management, where it should rest when the team has all of the talent. Your analysis has a mixture of opinion, forgiveness for a flawed ride and blame on the manager for having "brow-beaten" into a role.
It's a team sport and the manager sets a strategy. If any key member of a team disagrees it should be resolved before the race starts and, if the objection is strong enough either the strategy gets modified and the team agrees. If there is strong disagreement and individuals don't agree; they need to sit out the event. These are pros paid alot of money....by other teams. There is virtually no fatal punishment to a star rider that goes off script so some get away with it. Remco shines a light on his flaws and then attempts to bargain with his fans on social media into believing he had the One better idea and legs to back it up. Not professional. Belgium lost to a stronger rider on that day and they should congratulate the winner like Big Boys.

 

[Zoef-Lightning]

I totally agree with Big Doopy and cellardoor. The wrong tactic of the Belgian coach was to put everything on Van Aert and make that public. The agreement was that each time a Belgian would accompany attackers. But nobody did when Cosnefroy jumped away. So, Evenepoel did. Much too early for Evenepoel. But that was not his fault of course, but that of the other Belgian helpers (Teuns, Benoot.....) and the national coach.

The second time Evenepoel reacted and went along with attackers, was better timed. But once it converged again at the back, after Teuns, Benoot, Campenaerts among others, initially had difficulty following, the Belgians drove like crazy behind the escapees, while Evenepoel rode briskly in front. Incomprehensible and clear on behalf of Van Aert.

And yes, Evenepoel had the legs that day to at least make it to the podium. Van Aert clearly not. That was clearly visible when Ala stings for the first time, far from the arrival.

Conclusion. Wrong tactics of the Belgian coach. With evenepoel not the right man in the counter reaction so early in the race. Wrong reaction from Van Aert during the race. And..... The Belgian coach didn't disagree with Evenepoel during and after the race (because it was his tactics ).

 

[Oldermanish]

I totally agree with Big Doopy and cellardoor. The wrong tactic of the Belgian coach was to put everything on Van Aert and make that public. The agreement was that each time a Belgian would accompany attackers. But nobody did when Cosnefroy jumped away. So, Evenepoel did. Much too early for Evenepoel. But that was not his fault of course, but that of the other Belgian helpers (Teuns, Benoot.....) and the national coach.

The second time Evenepoel reacted and went along with attackers, was better timed. But once it converged again at the back, after Teuns, Benoot, Campenaerts among others, initially had difficulty following, the Belgians drove like crazy behind the escapees, while Evenepoel rode briskly in front. Incomprehensible and clear on behalf of Van Aert.

And yes, Evenepoel had the legs that day to at least make it to the podium. Van Aert clearly not. That was clearly visible when Ala stings for the first time, far from the arrival.

Conclusion. Wrong tactics of the Belgian coach. With evenepoel not the right man in the counter reaction so early in the race. Wrong reaction from Van Aert during the race. And..... The Belgian coach didn't disagree with Evenepoel during and after the race (because it was his tactics ).

Again; whether anyone other than Alaphilippe had the legs to win is speculation. I'd wager that anyone that stuck to his wheel and contributed to the escape was dropped because they weren't as strong. Period. I would congratulate him greatly; particularly as a back to back World Champ. Every team knew what he was going to do and couldn't prevent it.

 

[Ripper]

Again; whether anyone other than Alaphilippe had the legs to win is speculation. I'd wager that anyone that stuck to his wheel and contributed to the escape was dropped because they weren't as strong. Period. I would congratulate him greatly; particularly as a back to back World Champ. Every team knew what he was going to do and couldn't prevent it.

It is not mutually exclusive to both give a nod to Alaphilippe for his incredible strength that day, nor shake your head at the crap tactics of the Belgium squad, which were patently and objectively terrible along with a coach who really shouldn't be coaching the road team for major championships.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Gravel time!

Evenepoel to make gravel racing debut at Belgian Waffle Ride in Kansas

Organisers announce Evenepoel and Cattaneo will take part in shorter ride at October 31 event

www.cyclingnews.com

Apparently he finished 6th at the medium distance.

 

[laarsland]

Death, taxes and fanbois arguing over Belgian tactics in the 2021 WCRR.