Teams & Riders The Remco Evenepoel is the next Eddy Merckx thread

[18-Valve. (pithy)]

I think it makes a lot of sense for Evenpoel to race the 2022 Giro. Lots of stages fit his current profile. The Torino and Napoli stages, for example. No unpaved roads or anything AFAIK ...he could be racking up the stage wins if he's more dominant than this year.

He's got no pressure? Have you been in a coma the last 3 years? People expect him to deliver every race he ever starts.
There shouldn't be any pressure on him, but you know as well as anyone that there always will be.

I expect the hype to be the same or even higher if he climbs with the very best in Tirreno-Adriatico. If he doesn't, but still ends up winning that race, the hype will still be big, but people with some cycling knowledge won't back him as a podium favorite, I'm pretty sure. (I mean, WVA did finish 2nd behind Pogacar)

That's if Remco races the Giro, of course. He was going to target the Vuelta (which IMO is risky - imagine if Dani Martinez wasn't Bernal's dedicated dom but a GT leader ...and had only targeted the Vuelta this year - it would have been a year with 0 GTs for him). If you crash during or before the Giro there's always the Vuelta as backup plan.

 

[Carrick-On-Seine]

Favorite of what? When he proved something in a grand tour? How do you know that he is a grand tour gc rider?
He never proved something in a grand tour to be a favorite, so he's got no pressure.
If he goes to the giro and make a top 10, prove something, then it's a great result for him.

The bookmakers will put him as one of the favourites and then the journalists will report that.
Same thing afflicted van Aert in the biggest one day races this past season.

 

[Big Doopie]

I kind of like the idea of a bunch of world tour week-long races culminating in the dauphine against riders who are close to top for the TDF. Then the Vuelta against some top competition and GC riders who failed or crashed out at the TDF. It would really give him a better sense of where he is by the end of the season at age 22.

It would also somewhat parallel Hinault’s work up. And Hinault is the rider I think Remco most resembles. Including in attitude…

 

[greyclouds]

The bookmakers will put him as one of the favourites and then the journalists will report that.
Same thing afflicted van Aert in the biggest one day races this past season.

The same bookers that had him and Bernal as one of the favourites for this year's Tour, after the Giro?

 

[Carrick-On-Seine]

The same bookers that had him and Bernal as one of the favourites for this year's Tour, after the Giro?

Yeah, it all adds to the hype. You can get Remco at 11/1 for the 2022 tour. Bernal is 12/1. Madness.

 

[BlueRoads]

Yeah, it all adds to the hype. You can get Remco at 11/1 for the 2022 tour. Bernal is 12/1. Madness.

Well, I don't bet, but... isn't that good for everyone who does and knows a bit about cycling?

 

[Bonimenier]

Well, I don't bet, but... isn't that good for everyone who does and knows a bit about cycling?

Cycling is one of the easier sports to make profit on while betting in general if you know a thing or two about it.

 

[Carrick-On-Seine]

Cycling is one of the easier sports to make profit on while betting in general if you know a thing or two about it.

It was great a few years ago but they've got astute with the odds. However their obsession with WVA and MvdP at big races offers decent value for the other riders these days. The problem is I usually pick the wrong Quickstepper.

 

[Bonimenier]

It was great a few years ago but they've got astute with the odds. However their obsession with WVA and MvdP at big races offers decent value for the other riders these days. The problem is I usually pick the wrong Quickstepper.

In GT's the bet option if a rider will or will not win a stage is still free money. I can't recall how many times I bet a couple of 100 euros on Pozzovivo not winning a stage at odds 1.50.

 

[Froome]

Is that relevant? When they first announced he would be riding the 2020 Giro, the Giro organization made him the posterboy of the edition. Unfortunately, he crashed at Lombardia. There are camera crews following him at every race. There was a camera crew following his parents while he was tumbling down a bridge in Lombardia. There was a camera crew following his parents during this years prologue. There were daily newspaper sections devoted to his first grand tour. Regardless of him having proven anything or not in a 3 week GT, he will be in the spotlights. Half the people hate and ridicule him, half love and adore him. He's gold for the media. When there are articles about him, they generally attract lots more posts in the comment section than articles about any other rider, haters and fans all want to see how he does, be it to see him fail or succeed. He will be expected to perform, there will be pressure.


What i know is completely irrelevant. What you expect is completely irrelevant as well. What has he proven in a grand tour? Last year he was in the top 10 of the Giro for 15 days, coming from a bad injury and after a preparation that was far from ideal. It would only make sense that there could be a considerable improvement for his next attempt. Whether that improvement will be that he can be more dominant for 2 weeks before fading, or that he can hang on for a full three weeks in the top 10, or perhaps both, we'll have to see.

Even if he proves that he can be a grand tour gc, it's too much to put the pressure on him to have the "obligation" of winning that first grand tour on his first presence. Not even pogacar did that. If he proves that can be competitive in three weeks, make a top 10, and show that he can follow the best in the high mountains, then it's already a victory for him. The pressure comes from the belgian press, and even his fans on this forums.

 

[Froome]

He's got no pressure? Have you been in a coma the last 3 years? People expect him to deliver every race he ever starts.
There shouldn't be any pressure on him, but you know as well as anyone that there always will be.

The pressure should for example for roglic next year, not remco.

 

[BlueRoads]

I don't think Remco has problems with pressure. If anything I'm sure he likes the limelight and expectations. In the worst case it will make him too impatient and prone to make mistakes, but on a route where there aren't many mistakes to be made (like highly technical parts) and he mostly needs to give his all that shouldn't be much of a problem.
People should be there for him when things don't go the way he wanted them, though, but I don't think the possible disappointment will be much less if he's the only one putting expectations on himself, which I'm sure he does.

I still think high mountains and 3 weeks won't be a problem for him. What really made me think is the fact that in the Giro just like in Lombardia he at one point couldn't keep up with the pace uphill, presumably because it was a sudden change, but he then did his own tempo and regained much more time than one would have thought. (Somehow I don't believe the "he didn't eat enough" explanations.) Either that is just a consequence of his half-baken preparation for this year's season or he really has an issue there, and if that is the case I think that would hurt his ambitions as a GT rider much more than his mediocre bike handling skills.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Even if he proves that he can be a grand tour gc, it's too much to put the pressure on him to have the "obligation" of winning that first grand tour on his first presence. Not even pogacar did that. If he proves that can be competitive in three weeks, make a top 10, and show that he can follow the best in the high mountains, then it's already a victory for him. The pressure comes from the belgian press, and even his fans on this forums.

And yet at every turn people, not unlike yourself, try to ridicule him and laugh at how he isn't able to perform to their standard. To what they feel is appropriate for what he should be able to perform. When a journalist asks him if he is going to win a race, and he answers with "i'll do my best" and he doesn't win, those people crawl from under their rocks and shout it from the highest rooftop how he failed. "Ha ha ha, lol lol lol." So excuse me that i find it quite laughable when those people come here and talk about "no pressure".

 

[Oldermanish]

Is that relevant? When they first announced he would be riding the 2020 Giro, the Giro organization made him the posterboy of the edition. Unfortunately, he crashed at Lombardia. There are camera crews following him at every race. There was a camera crew following his parents while he was tumbling down a bridge in Lombardia. There was a camera crew following his parents during this years prologue. There were daily newspaper sections devoted to his first grand tour. Regardless of him having proven anything or not in a 3 week GT, he will be in the spotlights. Half the people hate and ridicule him, half love and adore him. He's gold for the media. When there are articles about him, they generally attract lots more posts in the comment section than articles about any other rider, haters and fans all want to see how he does, be it to see him fail or succeed. He will be expected to perform, there will be pressure.


What i know is completely irrelevant. What you expect is completely irrelevant as well. What has he proven in a grand tour? Last year he was in the top 10 of the Giro for 15 days, coming from a bad injury and after a preparation that was far from ideal. It would only make sense that there could be a considerable improvement for his next attempt. Whether that improvement will be that he can be more dominant for 2 weeks before fading, or that he can hang on for a full three weeks in the top 10, or perhaps both, we'll have to see.

Giving a young and rising star some time to prove himself to his own satisfaction, then the greater crazed fandom was my feeble suggestion. It's relevant because there have been many burned out talents that could have developed into serious long term legends give half a chance.
Unfortunately the adoration that his management and promoters have focused on him is now proving a distraction and a potentially a psychological hazard IMO.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Giving a young and rising star some time to prove himself to his own satisfaction, then the greater crazed fandom was my feeble suggestion. It's relevant because there have been many burned out talents that could have developed into serious long term legends give half a chance.
Unfortunately the adoration that his management and promoters have focused on him is now proving a distraction and a potentially a psychological hazard IMO.

The point was that there is no way back. No matter what we all say here, it doesn't matter. There will be expectations and pressure.

 

[peterfin]

It was great a few years ago but they've got astute with the odds. However their obsession with WVA and MvdP at big races offers decent value for the other riders these days. The problem is I usually pick the wrong Quickstepper.

It don't think they are "obsessed" with WVA or MvdP winning. They respond to the preference of their clients. If too many (percentage wise) go for a win for WVA or MvdP beyond the reasonable, odds need to reflect that. The house needs to make sure they make a profit. For this reason, bookmaker odds are not realistic odds. Of course due to competition of other bookmakers there are limits to how much they can tweak things. This is how I think it works. So going for a hyped rider is never a great idea.

 

[Flurk1982]

Ilan Van Wilder for 2 years to QS. He was one of the best juniors after REV. In the national junior team he was a domestique for REV. Ilan has lots of ambition so interesting to see how they blend together in QS team.

 

[Andre]

from my understanding he's an excellent time trialist

 

[red_flanders]

Ilan Van Wilder for 2 years to QS. He was one of the best juniors after REV. In the national junior team he was a domestique for REV. Ilan has lots of ambition so interesting to see how they blend together in QS team.

Nice pickup. Not surprised to see that he's slotted as a helper, or at least that's what I'd expect and this seems to confirm it.

Lefevere also released a statement on behalf of his team: “We are happy to sign with Ilan, a rider who we are confident can progress within our ranks and bring something to the team. We believe Ilan will be of added value to our GC ambitions

I guess one could read this as him being a backup or alternate, which isn't really in conflict with him helping the GC leader.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Nice pickup. Not surprised to see that he's slotted as a helper, or at least that's what I'd expect and this seems to confirm it.

I guess one could read this as him being a backup or alternate, which isn't really in conflict with him helping the GC leader.

Van Wilder is very ambitious but he's also very self-aware and a long-term thinker who doesn't need the attention. My guess (as i said months ago in his topic) is that he takes Almeida's 2020 spot. Obviously at this moment in time Almeida has proven himself on another level, but remember how it started in Algarve and Burgos. I also don't think Van Wilder would mind that, as long as he gets a few opportunities for himself where he really can test and show himself. Maybe in some races he could be a genuine co-leader. In some smaller races where Evenepoel isn't riding he could be GC leader (races like Coppi/Bartali, Tour de l'Ain,..). I wouldn't even be surprised if -for instance- Evenepoel would ride for Van Wilder in something like San Juan or Algarve, where Evenepoel already won. As a sort of "deposit/downpayment" for when the roles are reversed later in the season.

In short, i think it's Van Wilder's ambition to become a true GT/GC leader in the future, but that he's also aware that he doesn't have that status yet and that on the road there, he can learn a lot by helping Evenepoel and picking some intermediate goals where he can work towards. By July everybody will have a much better idea of where he's at.

The problem is that with 2020 (few opportunities for a neo-pro due to covid) and 2021 (issues with DSM pulling him off at least 4 stage race startlists) that we can't really tell. He did surprise me last year with a few very strong ITT's. I think had he had a better bike in 2021, he could already have won a WT ITT (Dauphiné or Romandie).

There is also the matter of their similar physique and position on the bike. They can swap bikes in case there is a mechanical issue. Van Wilder is probably the only rider on the team that will ride with the same bike frame and saddle height as Evenepoel.

 

[Oldermanish]

The point was that there is no way back. No matter what we all say here, it doesn't matter. There will be expectations and pressure.

Van Avermaet's take today on the Belgian World's performance seemed to wrap it all up. Folks trying too hard and blowing the chance.

 

[memyselfandI]

Yeah bit thin amount of racing days for Van Wilder in last two seasons, let's hope DQS not turning gas on too hard right away. Looks like some quality this young man, but young man he is and they're individuals..

 

[Wvv]

Van Avermaet's take today on the Belgian World's performance seemed to wrap it all up. Folks trying too hard and blowing the chance.

CN: There has been a big fall-out over the Belgian performance. What do you make of it all?

GVA: The problem is we have a lot of media attention and pressure on the team in our home country. It was already too much from the week before the race, all the talk about who is doing what. It doesn’t benefit the atmosphere in the team. Sometimes, they analyse the Worlds too much in terms of what everyone did. In normal races if you don’t do anything for your leader, maybe nobody notices, but if you don’t do it in Worlds at the right moment, everyone over-analyses it.

Also, I have the feeling the riders wanted to overperform, to help too much, and that’s something that’s created in Belgium. The riders even wanted to ride too much for Wout [van Aert]. It wasn’t necessary, because it only puts extra pressure on him. In this case it didn’t help the Belgian team. This was on the whole team but it was also on Remco [Evenepoel], because of the Olympics where he wasn’t so good or didn’t help Wout.

At Worlds he wanted to help Wout, got over enthusiastic to start riding, and it didn’t help him or Wout to do a better performance. They had to be more calm. They started talking too much about Wout only, which I would also have done internally but not externally. I’d say ‘Jasper Stuyven can win also, Remco Evenepoel can go from far’, then on the inside it should be clear Wout is the only leader. Then the other teams would ride differently. If everyone knows your strategy, they can prepare for it.

Saying that, it was bad luck that Wout had a slightly lesser day. If he had one of his super days, tactics don’t matter so much and he can still win the race. It’s a lot of talking but it’s also the legs that decide the race.

CN: Van Aert and Stuyven have publicly criticized Evenepoel, as has Eddy Merckx. Is this fair?

GVA: He’s a big talent and you can’t underestimate being a top Belgian guy from the age of 18. The pressure and attention in Belgium doesn’t help a young guy at that point of his career. The only bit of the story I didn’t understand was how they discussed the roles, because if they say he should not ride, and he rode, that’s a bit strange. That’s black or white. I was not there in the meeting, so only the guys can say if it was like this, but it seems he got over-excited. He didn’t do anything really wrong, but it would have been much better if he could wait until the end to do this. It’s just a mistake of being young. He can do some great things, but he still has some things to learn, like tactics and reading the races. But it will come with the years.
____

That's indeed a good way to put this situation into perspective. As Greg is, always calm and with his feet on the ground. Could there be more to it? Sure, but this evens out quite a lot.

 

[Andre]

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=503720814015725

View: https://www.facebook.com/RemcoEvenepoelOfficial/videos/503720814015725

 

[Red Rick]

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=503720814015725

View: https://www.facebook.com/RemcoEvenepoelOfficial/videos/503720814015725

They finally found the masks that actually do make it harder to breathe.

Sound is annoying