Teams & Riders The Remco Evenepoel is the next Eddy Merckx thread

[Big Doopie]

"Former Lotto Soudal manager Marc Sergeant, always sober in his assessment, wondered as much in his column in Het Nieuwsblad on Monday, suggesting that Evenepoel – prone to a jour sans in stage races – should divert more attention to one-day racing, citing his victories at the Clasica San Sebastian and Brussels Cycling Classic.


“Perhaps Evenepoel had to rearrange his goals, if only temporarily,” Sergeant wrote.


“If he has a great day in those one-day races, who is going to bring him back? And if you have a dip there, a day is lost, but not a whole week or more. It's going to give him more satisfaction than what he's doing now.”

This goes a lot towards what I have been posting. His recovery is not (yet, perhaps) the best. Maybe as Logic says his FTP is unreal and that is why he has climbed with if not better than many on occasion. But one cannot argue that he has been prone to a fair amount of bad individual days.

Just like Sergeant, I would hate the pursuit of immediate GT success to have him (and us) miss out on the one day exploits he is clearly capable of.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

"Former Lotto Soudal manager Marc Sergeant, always sober in his assessment, wondered as much in his column in Het Nieuwsblad on Monday, suggesting that Evenepoel – prone to a jour sans in stage races – should divert more attention to one-day racing, citing his victories at the Clasica San Sebastian and Brussels Cycling Classic.


“Perhaps Evenepoel had to rearrange his goals, if only temporarily,” Sergeant wrote.


“If he has a great day in those one-day races, who is going to bring him back? And if you have a dip there, a day is lost, but not a whole week or more. It's going to give him more satisfaction than what he's doing now.”

This goes a lot towards what I have been posting. His recovery is not (yet, perhaps) the best. Maybe as Logic says his FTP is unreal and that is why he has climbed with if not better than many on occasion. But one cannot argue that he has been prone to a fair amount of bad individual days.

Just like Sergeant, I would hate the pursuit of immediate GT success to have him (and us) miss out on the one day exploits he is clearly capable of.

Sergeant is one of the most inept and incompetent team managers of the past decades (i'm not even talking about tactics because you could write a book), who has proven to be absolutely clueless when it comes to managing a rider for GC. He (as well as yourself it seems) also seems to be unaware that what he is asking, for Evenepoel to (temporarily) shift focus to 1 day stage races, is exactly what he has been doing since this winter up until Liège, and the exact reason why he didn't perform well in Tirreno.

It is the reason why he has NOT focused on long climbs, why he has been working on his short efforts, has gained weight and muscle. Sergeant is mistaking cause with effect.

 

[Big Doopie]

Sergeant is one of the most inept and incompetent team managers of the past decades (i'm not even talking about tactics because you could write a book), who has proven to be absolutely clueless when it comes to managing a rider for GC. He (as well as yourself it seems) also seems to be unaware that what he is asking, for Evenepoel to (temporarily) shift focus to 1 day stage races, is exactly what he has been doing since this winter up until Liège, and the exact reason why he didn't perform well in Tirreno.

It is the reason why he has NOT focused on long climbs, why he has been working on his short efforts, has gained weight and muscle. Sergeant is mistaking cause with effect.

Hope you are right.

i still have no idea how more muscle weight helps you at LBL...

 

[Open Horizon]

the exact reason why he didn't perform well in Tirreno.

LOL

Add that one to the ever expanding list.

In fact, this is the exact difference between great riders and Evenepoel.

With him, there's always a new reason to explain away his disappointing results.

If only the universe wasn't so terribly unfair, Remco would've shown us his true powers this time!

Genuine great riders, in contrast, are great precisely because they shine despite all their moments of bad luck and flawed preparations. They don't need all the Gods on their side every single time to make a strong impression.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

LOL

Add that one to the ever expanding list.

In fact, this is the exact difference between great riders and Evenepoel.

With him, there's always a new reason to explain away his disappointing results.

If only the universe wasn't so terribly unfair, Remco would've shown us his true powers this time!

Genuine great riders, in contrast, are great precisely because they shine despite all their moments of bad luck and flawed preparations. They don't need all the Gods on their side every single time to make a strong impression.

lol indeed

 

[Taxus4a]

Evenepoel is an amazing rider. He has a bad pint, the big mountain stages. But he probe in Burgos he can climb quite well. Picon Blanco was the firt mouyntain stages, after lot of flat with crazy wind..so he did very well, but Picon Blanco is a hard climb, similar to Tirreno one. He did well days later in Neila, But in this case people as Landa was better.

I think he wanst at his best in Tirreno, but, anyway. he is really young, he came from a hard crash, and he started really late in cycling , the opossite than Pogacar.
Pogacar is amazing, and it is really good for cycling both of them can do exibitions..we are lucky about..But I think is early to take the conclusions Lefevre has taken about his options in a GT..Of couse agaings Pogacar in tha hardest days he will have always problems. But he can take advantage another days...
Good times for cycling.

 

[greyclouds]

Sergeant is one of the most inept and incompetent team managers of the past decades (i'm not even talking about tactics because you could write a book), who has proven to be absolutely clueless when it comes to managing a rider for GC. He (as well as yourself it seems) also seems to be unaware that what he is asking, for Evenepoel to (temporarily) shift focus to 1 day stage races, is exactly what he has been doing since this winter up until Liège, and the exact reason why he didn't perform well in Tirreno.

It is the reason why he has NOT focused on long climbs, why he has been working on his short efforts, has gained weight and muscle. Sergeant is mistaking cause with effect.

He might have shifted his focus in training for 1-day races, but his schedule until April only has Valencia, Algarve, T-A and Itzulia - and not a single 1-day race. Arguably the classics season hasn't started yet, but he could have done Omloop or SB (which would have been a good test for his sterrato skills), and he could go to E3 or MSR. I'm not saying he should have done that, but like others, I'm confused as to what are his goals this season. So far we have him doing said training, whilst going to 4 early season key GC stage races, with key targets for the later in the year being La Vuelta (even if in a let's see how it goes mindset) and LBL (an old discussion I know, but will he be competing against Ala?). I just think that between QS and Remco's ideas, his goals seem to be getting him to win everywhere, and for such a young rider still trying to establish himself at the big boys' table, he would be wise to focus on one thing at this moment.

 

[Oldermanish]

That is one brutal statement... I wonder what Lefevere hopes to achieve with that statement. Provoking Remco into trying harder?

Yes and to race smarter. Flexing constantly is a young star's strength for a time but the experienced teams will punish him and his team for it. There are times to feign average or poor form to get some room to race seriously. If he has a few more "bad" days his team will lose faith as well with as much talent as they have. Alaphillipe has done a good job of supporting team members and he's reaped loyalty and support as a result.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

He might have shifted his focus in training for 1-day races, but his schedule until April only has Valencia, Algarve, T-A and Itzulia - and not a single 1-day race. Arguably the classics season hasn't started yet, but he could have done Omloop or SB (which would have been a good test for his sterrato skills), and he could go to E3 or MSR. I'm not saying he should have done that, but like others, I'm confused as to what are his goals this season. So far we have him doing said training, whilst going to 4 early season key GC stage races, with key targets for the later in the year being La Vuelta (even if in a let's see how it goes mindset) and LBL (an old discussion I know, but will he be competing against Ala?). I just think that between QS and Remco's ideas, his goals seem to be getting him to win everywhere, and for such a young rider still trying to establish himself at the big boys' table, he would be wise to focus on one thing at this moment.

It's rather common for riders to hone their form in stage races. Him doing those to get into shape for the hilly classics is quite normal. His goals were the hilly classics, with Liège being the obvious big kahuna. After that La Vuelta is his big target. His trainer literally said he was doing this training now and after Liège they would shift, saying ''the Remco that is going to the Vuelta will be a completely different one''.

 

[Eddy Evenepoel]

Nice suprise this morning in one of Geraardsbergen's municipalities. At 8:15, on my way to work, I drove past Remco training. The kid has serious work ethics, to say the least.

Which is why he isn't a new Simon Spilak

 

[HelloDolly]

There is nothing wrong with Evenepoel that a period of time in the shade wouldn't cure

The kid is under too much pressure from Belgian press, his team and on here

Leave him alone to do his own thing and develop without the pressure
Pogacar may not always be on top ..who knows if he can be motivated for another 10 years or maintain his level
In the meantime Evenepoel should try and target some one day races and rolling stage races
Let history write itself

 

[Krzysztof_O]

That is one brutal statement... I wonder what Lefevere hopes to achieve with that statement. Provoking Remco into trying harder?

Yes definitely. Such words from Lefevere and even Eddy himself should motivate his like nothing else. Remco looks like a guy who should be spurred (in a positive sense) by such comments, not discouraged.

 

[RunningRouleur]

I'll preface this by saying I'm a Remco fanboy and want the guy to succeed. And I'm in favor of the best riders squaring off as much as possible.

But why is he riding Itzulia unless purely to prepare for the Ardennes? Roglic will kill him on that TT. He isn't good on steep climbs of any duration and tricky descents which is kind of the definition of the Basque Country. I could honestly see him getting dropped on almost every stage if Jumbo decides to ride. We saw what happened at Tirreno and Valenciana.

Maybe he should have gone to Catalunya? But again there are stages in that race in which he is likely to drop. And no TT.

Is he fully recovered from his bad crash at Lombardia? His watts seem pretty good in races that suit him.

I am excited to see him at the Ardennes and the Vuelta (again both of which tend to have shorter steeper climbs) but it's increasingly looking like he lacks many of the characteristics to win the biggest races: Recovery over one or three weeks, punch, descending, bike handling, the list goes on.

I hope I'm proven wrong. And I hope he finds his niche as one of the strongest riders in the peloton.

 

[Red Rick]

Evenepoel is sufficiently good at sub 10 minute climbs IMO. Pais Vasco is a much better test than Catalunya where he basically has nothing to win

 

[RunningRouleur]

Evenepoel is sufficiently good at sub 10 minute climbs IMO. Pais Vasco is a much better test than Catalunya where he basically has nothing to win

I was under the impression that Remco is virtually invincible in watt/kg tests on the turbo trainer (in addition to his insanely low CDA) but when he is put under pressure by a steep climb his legs give out and he isn't able to match his tests in race conditions.
I'm not a physiology expert but I would hazard a guess that this has something to do with the application of torque and fast-twitch muscle fibers on steeper climbs. This would gel with one of his other famous characteristics: lack of a sprint.

 

[Red Rick]

I was under the impression that Remco is virtually invincible in watt/kg tests on the turbo trainer (in addition to his insanely low CDA) but when he is put under pressure by a steep climb his legs give out and he isn't able to match his tests in race conditions.
I'm not a physiology expert but I would hazard a guess that this has something to do with the application of torque and fast-twitch muscle fibers on steeper climbs. This would gel with one of his other famous characteristics: lack of a sprint.

Not just muscle fibers. Shorter legs means you need more torque to get the pedals round. Now I cant say why this anthropmetry seems to suit sprinters more tbh. Maybe capillary surface area or something.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

I'll preface this by saying I'm a Remco fanboy and want the guy to succeed. And I'm in favor of the best riders squaring off as much as possible.

But why is he riding Itzulia unless purely to prepare for the Ardennes? Roglic will kill him on that TT. He isn't good on steep climbs of any duration and tricky descents which is kind of the definition of the Basque Country. I could honestly see him getting dropped on almost every stage if Jumbo decides to ride. We saw what happened at Tirreno and Valenciana.

Maybe he should have gone to Catalunya? But again there are stages in that race in which he is likely to drop. And no TT.

Is he fully recovered from his bad crash at Lombardia? His watts seem pretty good in races that suit him.

I am excited to see him at the Ardennes and the Vuelta (again both of which tend to have shorter steeper climbs) but it's increasingly looking like he lacks many of the characteristics to win the biggest races: Recovery over one or three weeks, punch, descending, bike handling, the list goes on.

I hope I'm proven wrong. And I hope he finds his niche as one of the strongest riders in the peloton.

His schedule and training up until Liège is and has been focused towards Liège first and foremost. Yes. They also want to see how he does in WT stageraces, but that is not a priority atm it seems from various statements.

Why would Roglic kill him on that TT?

 

[KenFiamingo]

Evenepoel is sufficiently good at sub 10 minute climbs IMO. Pais Vasco is a much better test than Catalunya where he basically has nothing to win

Except for... winning a 1 week world tour stage race of the highest echelon which Catalunya is. I often find Catalunya a bit meh, but given the stage profiles, this definitely would have suited him better than Tirreno or Itzulia.

 

[Parker]

Which is why he isn't a new Simon Spilak

No, he's the new Richie Porte. That's a compliment. Porte was the most successful one week rider of the 2010s and probably the best GT mountain domestique too. At QS the second option may not be open to Evenepoel.

Like Porte, Evenepoel is small and aerodynamic, prone to a bad day in GTs and has no sprint. Maybe some anger issues too.

 

[johnymax]

No, he's the new Richie Porte. That's a compliment. Porte was the most successful one week rider of the 2010s and probably the best GT mountain domestique too. At QS the second option may not be open to Evenepoel.

Like Porte, Evenepoel is small and aerodynamic, prone to a bad day in GTs and has no sprint. Maybe some anger issues too.

I don't see it, for now. Porte's best result in one day races is probably a 2nd place in Mont Ventoux Denivele Challenge, a 1.1 race. Remco is a superior one day racer, a superior hilly rider and a superior TT rider. On the other hand, Richie in his prime was a way better climber (he was an excellent time-trialist, too). He was arguably a top3 climber in the world and on his day he was the best. Also you said Porte was the most successful one week rider of the 2010s. He arguably was. He has 19 top3 GC placings in WT week long stage races (4 of them are in the 2020s). Remco on the other end has only one so far. That's right, the Tour of Poland win. Probably the WT stage race that suits Richie Porte the least. So Remco has a long way to go to become a GC rider of the calibre of Richie Porte. Of course his career has barely begun, so time is on his side. If he improves his climbing ability, he can become a GC rider as good as Porte and at the same time overall a way more complete rider than Porte ever was.

 

[johnymax]

Why would Roglic kill him on that TT?

Yeah, I was wondering the same. I actually see Remco as a favourite for the TT. But is so short that the gaps between the two should be around 10s max.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Yeah, I was wondering the same. I actually see Remco as a favourite for the TT. But is so short that the gaps between the two should be around 10s max.

Could go either way, but i doubt either will ''kill'' the other.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

I was under the impression that Remco is virtually invincible in watt/kg tests on the turbo trainer (in addition to his insanely low CDA) but when he is put under pressure by a steep climb his legs give out and he isn't able to match his tests in race conditions.
I'm not a physiology expert but I would hazard a guess that this has something to do with the application of torque and fast-twitch muscle fibers on steeper climbs. This would gel with one of his other famous characteristics: lack of a sprint.

Power is a product of torque and rotational velocity. If Remco is able to generate big power on a trainer this generally means that he produces large torque values (unless he spins at a ridiculously high cadence). If his torque generated on an steep uphill was not enough a simple solution would be to switch to lower gears/higher rpm to rely more on his cardio-engine than on muscle strength.

 

[peterfin]

There have been multiple times when Remco seems to prefer a high gear where I think he would benefit from a lower gear. That struggle in Valancia was a prime example. He was basically pushing at stall torque for a while. Moving to lower gear would likely result in more overall power and as such a higher average speed, even if he can't react to accelerations of the mountain goats that much. He doesn't need to copy Froome or Armstrong but working a bit more with his cardio-engine would benefit him.

 

[Zoef-Lightning]

I think it's good that Evenepoel also rides smaller stage races that should suit him a little less. Although he always chooses a stage race that includes a time trial. If the intention is to go for a win in Liege, then he should be very close to his top form in the Basque Country. If he does that for the overall victory, his career can still go in all directions. Is he failing again, or is he having a bad day, then we can gradually conclude that Evenepoel will not become a GC rider. Then he has to specialize in stage victories and in one-day races. Let's wait and see Itzulia. But also Liege, because it remains to be seen whether he will perform well there, in a major one-day classic.