Teams & Riders The Remco Evenepoel is the next Eddy Merckx thread

[Cookster15]

Remco dusted Vingegaard at all TTs this year where they both competed. He blew an in form Rog off the course in the TT at la Vuelta

As I pointed out, had he not sat up Vingegaard would have beaten the rampant WvA in the tdF stage 20 TT and also as I pointed out WvA easily beat Remco in the 2021 words TT. Remco has never "dusted" WvA.

So you see, you should not assume. Even if he beats Vingo it would be close so then it comes back to the mountains where I think Vingegaard is certainly better based upon what we have seen.

Note I am not discounting Remco's performance this Vuelta, his likely victory will be well deserved. But we should not get carried away about how he would fare in the TdF. Not only is the pressure greater in the Tour but the level is too.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

As I pointed out, had he not sat up Vingegaard would have beaten the rampant WvA in the tdF stage 20 TT and also as I pointed out WvA easily beat Remco in the 2021 words TT. Remco has never "dusted" WvA.

So you see, you should not assume. Even if he beats Vingo it would be close so then it comes back to the mountains where I think Vingegaard is certainly better based upon what we have seen.

Note I am not discounting Remco's performance this Vuelta, his likely victory will be well deserved. But we should not get carried away about how he would fare in the TdF. Not only is the pressure greater in the Tour but the level is too.

Why do you keep repeating this nonsense? I already showed you the picture of Vingegaard trailing by 6 seconds before he nearly crashed in the TT.

 

[Jumbo Visma Fan :)]

Why do you keep repeating this nonsense? I already showed you the picture of Vingegaard trailing by 6 seconds before he nearly crashed in the TT.

And do you think Vingo was going 100%? Likely no.

 

[SHAD0W93]

And do you think Vingo was going 100%? Likely no.

In the beginning most likely in case Pogacar beat WVA yes. But not after he almost crashed and it was known Pogacar wasn’t winning.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

And do you think Vingo was going 100%? Likely no.

Yes he was because he nearly crashed by missing a corner, lol. If he wasn't going all out, then he surely would have crashed otherwise. Pick your poison.

In the beginning most likely in case Pogacar beat WVA yes. But not after he almost crashed and it was known Pogacar wasn’t winning.

He was already 6s behind before the near-crash.

 

[Kwibus]

Is that your view on all rules? A backdated TUE is smart and mature? Did you praise Froome too?

Wow! What a comparison....
So with 5km to go you notice you are losing pressure in your tire you will stop there because you are a white knight and will possibly give up you're Vuelta victory instead of riding on and try to reach the 3km to go spot and then change your tire?
This 3km rule is debatable and will always be debatable, but losing over a minute because you got a flat tire in the last 10km is also not really what we hope to see happening?

How in the world can this be compared by getting a TUE on doubtful reasons which improves your performance during an entire GT?

Please Netserk you are smarter than this.

 

[geisterhome]

I didn't follow the Veulta as closely but if Enric Mas can match Remcos climbing performances for the most part and from whom a not in best shape Roglic is a real threat, how can someone think he would beat Vingegaard or Pogacar or at least get them to a point where they can barely follow his wheel and in best case outsprint him at the end?

If he wants to compete with those two he needs to find a whole other level. In TTs it might be close, he might even gain a few seconds, but even that I'm far from convinced of...

But everywhere else he would'nt stand a chance (on his current level) and that is not even considering that he might slow down more than others at the end of a 3 weeks GT.

Also I'm not sure of how much improvement we can still expect from him at this point, he is only 22 but at the same time already a seasoned veteran. I believe won't see anything drastic.

 

[Volderke]

I didn't follow the Veulta as closely but if Enric Mas can match Remcos climbing performances for the most part and from whom a not in best shape Roglic is a real threat, how can someone think he would beat Vingegaard or Pogacar or at least get them to a point where they can barely follow his wheel and in best case outsprint him at the end?

What makes you think Mas can match Remcos climbing performances for the most part?
Remco outperformed Mas and since then he resorted to defending his position.
The only time Mas got away, Remco was leaning on Vervaeke and could certainly have jumped on Mas' wheel but didn't feel like with Roglic in has draft, as he didn't want Roglic to counterattack.

 

[BigCoward]

If I am Pog/ Ving every mountain we put in a brutal attack with our best doms, and as soon as we get a gap on the definitely less explosive Remco, we TTT to the finish. His team cannot compete with the firepower they can bring, especially JV. I don't think they break him because he can diesel his way up with the best, but they can easily bleed him dry in small chunks.

 

[Akuryo]

I didn't follow the Veulta as closely but if Enric Mas can match Remcos climbing performances for the most part and from whom a not in best shape Roglic is a real threat, how can someone think he would beat Vingegaard or Pogacar or at least get them to a point where they can barely follow his wheel and in best case outsprint him at the end?

If he wants to compete with those two he needs to find a whole other level. In TTs it might be close, he might even gain a few seconds, but even that I'm far from convinced of...

But everywhere else he would'nt stand a chance (on his current level) and that is not even considering that he might slow down more than others at the end of a 3 weeks GT.

Also I'm not sure of how much improvement we can still expect from him at this point, he is only 22 but at the same time already a seasoned veteran. I believe won't see anything drastic.

He put over 2 minutes into these guys in the first week. Since then it's just defending the jersey. He's not going all out every single day just to show you in particular how much stronger he is than Mas or Roglic.

 

[Gargamel35]

Belgium trolls will quickly make Remco a "persona non grata". Guy didn't even finish a GT in his life. He looks in good position to win Vuelta and beating C class Mas and injured, out of training Roglič and now in the minds of trolls, he can challenge Vinge/Pog in Tour no problem. Hell, he can blow them away, right. Vinge/Pog are A+ GC riders. I would even dare to say Vinge is A+, Pog is A right now. Roglič without crashes and in great form is A-. As always he almost never is 100%, because he's coming from crash, or crashes during event. Remco is in B to B+ tier right now. Then, there is Mas and others in B- or C even. That's it. It's actually great, because Vinge/Pog are in their prime, Remco isn't even there yet and Rog is sadly slowly out of it.

 

[Bolder]

I didn't follow the Veulta as closely but if Enric Mas can match Remcos climbing performances for the most part and from whom a not in best shape Roglic is a real threat, how can someone think he would beat Vingegaard or Pogacar or at least get them to a point where they can barely follow his wheel and in best case outsprint him at the end?

If he wants to compete with those two he needs to find a whole other level. In TTs it might be close, he might even gain a few seconds, but even that I'm far from convinced of...

But everywhere else he would'nt stand a chance (on his current level) and that is not even considering that he might slow down more than others at the end of a 3 weeks GT.

Also I'm not sure of how much improvement we can still expect from him at this point, he is only 22 but at the same time already a seasoned veteran. I believe won't see anything drastic.

I think he's made a quantum leap over the course of the season. Don't know if he's just training better, or finally over his injuries, or just maturing, but if he wins the Vuelta, he will have laid to rest questions about his GT potential, and he can build on that for years to come.

 

[Carrick-On-Seine]

Belgium trolls will quickly make Remco a "persona non grata". Guy didn't even finish a GT in his life. He looks in good position to win Vuelta and beating C class Mas and injured, out of training Roglič and now in the minds of trolls, he can challenge Vinge/Pog in Tour no problem. Hell, he can blow them away, right. Vinge/Pog are A+ GC riders. I would even dare to say Vinge is A+, Pog is A right now. Roglič without crashes and in great form is A-. As always he almost never is 100%, because he's coming from crash, or crashes during event. Remco is in B to B+ tier right now. Then, there is Mas and others in B- or C even. That's it. It's actually great, because Vinge/Pog are in their prime, Remco isn't even there yet and Rog is sadly slowly out of it.

So everyone that finds Remco an exciting rider and would like him to win is a troll?
Greetings from London by the way.

 

[Gargamel35]

So everyone that finds Remco an exciting rider and would like him to win is a troll?
Greetings from London by the way.

It's ok to like him and hope, he can win. But to argue he CAN/WILL win is homerism and stupid. With Vinge/Pog/Rog in form, he has NO chance to win. Not yet.

 

[Carrick-On-Seine]

It's ok to like him and hope, he can win. But to argue he CAN/WILL win is homerism and stupid. With Vinge/Pog/Rog in form, he has NO chance to win. Not yet.

But who is doing that? Well at least with Pog and Vin.
I genuinely haven't noticed anyone saying he'll win the Tour next year.

 

[Gargamel35]

But who is doing that? Well at least with Pog and Vin.
I genuinely haven't noticed anyone saying he'll win the Tour next year.

There are plenty of them here and in Vuelta 2022 page, in Roglič page..all over the place.

 

[Carrick-On-Seine]

There are plenty of them here and in Vuelta 2022 page, in Roglič page..all over the place.

Nah. Still haven't seen anyone saying he will beat Pog and Vin if he goes to the 2023 Tour.

 

[Gargamel35]

Nah. Still haven't seen anyone saying he will beat Pog and Vin if he goes to the 2023 Tour.

I guess you are one of them then.

 

[yaco]

Remco would still race in several week long races, plus a few classics , if he does 2 GT. He'd just have to drop the smaller stage races

But why would you do this ? You get more value and probably better performance from riding one GT.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

I didn't follow the Veulta as closely but if Enric Mas can match Remcos climbing performances for the most part and from whom a not in best shape Roglic is a real threat, how can someone think he would beat Vingegaard or Pogacar or at least get them to a point where they can barely follow his wheel and in best case outsprint him at the end?

If he wants to compete with those two he needs to find a whole other level. In TTs it might be close, he might even gain a few seconds, but even that I'm far from convinced of...

But everywhere else he would'nt stand a chance (on his current level) and that is not even considering that he might slow down more than others at the end of a 3 weeks GT.

Also I'm not sure of how much improvement we can still expect from him at this point, he is only 22 but at the same time already a seasoned veteran. I believe won't see anything drastic.

So this is kind of a flashback as well as the theme throughout this thread in many instances, starting in 2018. Basically, Remco won't improve significantly, hence he will not be able to:

Cut it as a pro. Win as a pro. Win with a solo ever again because next time they will be in his wheel. Win in WT. Win a MTF. Win a monument. Beat "the best". Become a GT/GC rider. Win a GT...? Win a GT against "the best"...?

It's his 2nd GT and the first one he might actually finish, but apparently there is already enough evidence that this time, he really has hit his limit. Now he should even be happy if he doesn't lose much time against TT'ers who have collectively beaten him 0 times in 6 encounters (3 each). Seems like he's declining before reaching his peak.

The only moment this not-in-best-shape Roglic was a real threat, was against not-in-best-shape Evenepoel after his crash. With Roglic having to resort to antics like the ones that made him crash. He wanted to drop him at the start of a 22k climb, but had to settle for the final 1.5k after cowering in his wheel for 15k because Evenepoel was simply too strong. This not-in-best-shape Roglic was also stronger than all the others at the Vuelta, including 90% of the Giro's top 20 GC.

And while he is indeed a seasoned pro, he is only 22 and lost 9 months + a season getting back to his best level after a crash.

We all know the TDF is a different race. We all know winning the Vuelta against Mas, Roglic, Lopez, Almeida, Hindley, O'Connor... isn't the same as winning the TDF against Vingegaard, Pogacar etc. But i see no reason why he wouldn't be able to improve. Just by not crashing (which you find a valid excuse for Roglic) he would already improve greatly on his current result as his crash cost him in two main stages. His team isn't at full strength nor max potential, and to be fair, i don't think Vingegaard would have beaten Pogacar without the strength of his team either. Does it invalidate his win? Of course not, so there is still plenty to improve.

 

[Carrick-On-Seine]

I guess you are one of them then.

So, no proof then.
Thanks for your time.

 

[Netserk]

"gamed the rules" - what? Since when do the rules indicate in words or meaning that a rider has to stop immediately when he has a mechanical now?

Here's what the rule actually says:


The incident must be duly noted in the last 3km, nowhere does it say it has to originate within the last 3km. If Sagan breaks his fork 5 km from the finish and wheelies into the 3km zone, there's nothing preventing him from getting the same time as whoever is around him at that point. He just has to make it into the 3km before stopping.

That's not gaming the rules, that is the rules.

No, that is your misinterpretation of the rules. The incident must happen within the last 3 km.

For example, Contador was only distanced within the last 3 km in the stage to Arenberg in 2010 because he had punctured, but he still lost time to Vino.

In stage 1 of Itzulia 2017, Alaphilippe was on the attack and punctured with ~3.5 km to go. He was caught by the peloton, but not distanced until he was within the last 3 km. Yet he still lost time that day.

It's also quite clear from the part you quoted. It's in the case of a (duly noted) incident in the last 3 km.

 

[Gargamel35]

So, no proof then.
Thanks for your time.

Thank you for proving my point.

 

[Big Doopie]

He hasn’t even won yet and those who suffer from Remco Derangement Syndrome (the haters) cannot contain their irrational emotions and are already trying to devalue his Vuelta and the opponents he faced.

Until his crash he dominated every other rider in the race. He won the GC race on the first four MTFs (precisely on the extremely steep gradients that those who suffer from RDS said he would be crushed). He destroyed the only very short and flat ITT, leaving the Olympic champion further behind than anyone expected. It is only after his crash that he has been in any way diminished and forced to be defensive.

Pog is still the best GT rider out there as far as I am concerned. Vingo now makes things interesting for years to come. I do now see the potential for another rider to join this wonderful circus. Ayuso next?

 

[Gargamel35]

He hasn’t even won yet and this who suffer from Remco Derangement Syndrome (the haters) are already trying to devalue his Vuelta and his opponents.

Until his crash he dominated every other rider in the race. He won the GC race on the first four MTFs (precisely on the extremely steep gradients that those who suffer from RDS said he would be crushed). He destroyed the only very short and flat ITT, leaving the Olympic champion further behind than anyone expected. It is only after his crash that he has been in any way diminished and forced to be defensive.

Pog is still the best GT rider out there as far as I am concerned. Vingo now makes things interesting for years to come. I do now see the potential for another rider to join this wonderful circus. Ayuso next?

Exactly, he hasn't won yet and yet we need to read about "uberhuman" Remco that will challenge Vinge/Pog in all GTs they meet. Remco still needs to win his first and when he will, he won it against C tier Mas and injured/crashed out Roglič. And that is a race Remco prepared for months ahead, not a "last chance" race others come to save a season or crashed before it and had 2 weeks of training. Remco is nowhere near top form A grade GC riders. Can he get there? Maybe, but he's not there now at all. So all this Belgium salivating over Remco and diminishing Vinge/Pog/Rog and others is ridiculous.