Teams & Riders The Remco Evenepoel is the next Eddy Merckx thread

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The competition at La Vuelta was stronger than any of the Grand Tours. There was an insanely strong Mas and Roglic and Ayuso and Rodriguez etc. Le Tour had Vingo and Tadej basically, and Thomas was just fighting for third all the way
Tadej and Vingegaard was far better than Mas, Roglic, Ayuso and Rodriguez. These guys were probably not much better than Thomas in the Tour.
 
...ok, I exaggerated a little bit, but I don't like when people belittle the effort that Remco put in to win La Vuelta. Some posters (I guess they're called trolls) try to take away Remco's achievements by saying that the competition was weak or the parcours was easy. I will take "Big Doopie" advice and "temper the reality"...sometimes my emotions carry me away.
 
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The competition at La Vuelta was stronger than any of the Grand Tours. There was an insanely strong Mas and Roglic and Ayuso and Rodriguez etc. Le Tour had Vingo and Tadej basically, and Thomas was just fighting for third all the way. El Giro was nothing to write home about. I think La Vuelta was the hardest fought this year and Remco faced the most strongest riders you could ask for. It was such a strong field that most of the breakaways were successful...including Arensman and Carapaz and such...
Are you serious?
 
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Mostly due to the thin numbers of serious GC contenders. The depth at next year's Giro and Tour should be much deeper. Numbers....numbers.....don't mean anything if not tactically applied and strategically supported by team depth. DQS arguably punched above their weight in support of Remco. When they weren't there he handled the few threats very easily.
Seemed like most riders were fighting for the top ten spots. The fact that several teams were facing potential WT relegation this late in the season was another influence that took away from a GC competition.
I don't agree with that, numbers say it all. What could they apply tactically? First few mountain stages, Evenpoel immediately put such a high tempo that the others weren't able to do anything tactically.
 
I don't agree with that, numbers say it all. What could they apply tactically? First few mountain stages, Evenpoel immediately put such a high tempo that the others weren't able to do anything tactically.
I meant the quality/quantity of GC contenders.....not Remco's wattage output. As for tactics; they seemed to wait for a moment of weakness from RE, and waited and waited and waited.
 
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Tadej and Vingegaard was far better than Mas, Roglic, Ayuso and Rodriguez. These guys were probably not much better than Thomas in the Tour.
And far better than remco. Remco at the tour would be a bit better than thomas in general classification.
Remco's level at the Vuelta was great, but the other two are aliens. The climbs at this past tour, would be a lot worse to remco.
 
Mostly due to the thin numbers of serious GC contenders. The depth at next year's Giro and Tour should be much deeper. Numbers....numbers.....don't mean anything if not tactically applied and strategically supported by team depth. DQS arguably punched above their weight in support of Remco. When they weren't there he handled the few threats very easily.
Seemed like most riders were fighting for the top ten spots. The fact that several teams were facing potential WT relegation this late in the season was another influence that took away from a GC competition.
Yeah, I'm not buying that. Numbers on very steep climbs were super strong. Numbers mean a lot. Yes, tactics matter a lot as well, but you can't dismiss the numbers we saw in this race so easily.

I don't think he's yet at the level of Vingo and Pog at this year's Tour, but his ride at the Vuelta was impressive. Another level to reach to beat those guys for sure, but it seems entirely possible given what he's pushing now.
 
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And far better than remco. Remco at the tour would be a bit better than thomas in general classification.
Remco's level at the Vuelta was great, but the other two are aliens. The climbs at this past tour, would be a lot worse to remco.
To my point and what led us down this road: facing the competition at 2 GTs in a year it seems like the Giro/Vuelta is Remco's first, best shot. I don't think he's quite ready and will only get stronger as will the rising group of young competitors.
 
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Yeah, I'm not buying that. Numbers on very steep climbs were super strong. Numbers mean a lot. Yes, tactics matter a lot as well, but you can't dismiss the numbers we saw in this race so easily.

I don't think he's yet at the level of Vingo and Pog at this year's Tour, but his ride at the Vuelta was impressive. Another level to reach to beat those guys for sure, but it seems entirely possible given what he's pushing now.
The part you highlighted is the key; numbers and tactics. If everyone follows Remco on terrain that suits him they will, of course see high outputs. He knows that and applied sound tactics. The lack of preceding aggression or counterattacks until the last few stages showed they could have done better. Carapaz raced stages to win while other raced to not lose IMO.
 
TDF was the strongest but the Giro was not quite the same as La Vuelta although it's hard to compare the two.

I think Remco is third in the GT pecking order right now. The pecking order is about achievement but also about future potential so riders like Roglic, Carapaz, Thomas are ranked lower because of their most recent results/injuries/crashes.

  1. Tadej Pogacar (23) TDF 1st (2020, 2021) 2nd 2022 Vuelta 3rd (2019)
  2. Jonas Vingegaard (25) TDF 1st (2022), 2nd (2021)
  3. Remco Evenepoel (22) Vuelta 1st (2022)
  4. Primoz Roglic (32) TDF 2nd (2020), 4th (2018) Giro 3rd (2019) Vuelta 1st (2019, 2020, 2021)
  5. Egan Bernal (25) TDF 1st (2019), Giro 1st (2021) Vuelta 6th (2021) - I would put Bernal higher but with his back issues and his horror crash it's more of a wait and see.
  6. Jai Hindley (26) TDF Giro 1st (2022) 2nd (2020) Vuelta 10th (2022)
  7. Richard Carapaz (29) TDF 3rd (2021) Giro 1st (2019) 2nd (2022) 4th (2018) Vuelta 2nd (2020)
  8. Enric Mas TDF 5th (2020) Vuelta 2nd (2018,2021, 2022) 5th (2019)
  9. Juan Ayuso (19) Vuelta 3rd (2022)
  10. Joao Almeida Giro 4th (2020) 6th (2021) Vuelta 5th (2022)
HM
Carlos Rodriguez (21) Vuelta 7th (2022)
Thymen Arensman (22) Vuelta 6th (2022)
Cian Uijtdebroeks (19) 1st L'avenir
 
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Mostly due to the thin numbers of serious GC contenders. The depth at next year's Giro and Tour should be much deeper.
The Giro? I'm a bit unsure about that. Pog and Vingegaard will never do the Giro. Neither Mas I think. The best contenders one could hope for is possibly Roglic, Bernal, Yates, Hindley and Carapaz. But Bernal is fairly uncertain after his back problems and Yates is notoriously unstable. And if Rog does the Tour and Vuelta as usual, we're back to Carapaz and Hindley, which isn't the most impressive competition. The Giro really needs a Bernal back in shape and/or a more stable Yates.
 
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...ok, I exaggerated a little bit, but I don't like when people belittle the effort that Remco put in to win La Vuelta. Some posters (I guess they're called trolls) try to take away Remco's achievements by saying that the competition was weak or the parcours was easy. I will take "Big Doopie" advice and "temper the reality"...sometimes my emotions carry me away.
Winning a GT is a great feat in itself, but things need to be put into proper perspective. Le Tour is Le Tour, as they say, and as Big Doppie indicated (backed by Logic) it's the pinacle of the sport, where every rider from team leader to last domestique is expected to be in the best shape of the year. For this reason, winning it is more difficult than the others, or in any case requires only the best GT racer to do so. And its rarer that a Tour winner can't win the Giro or Vuelta than it is for a winner of the Giro or Vuelta not to be able to win the Tour. Having said this, I believe Remco is one of those talents that can win the Tour, although doubtless he will really have to work for it against Pogacar and Vingegaard. Yet Pogacar and Vingegaard I think certainly can win the Giro and the Vuelta, whereas someone like Carapaz or Jai Hindley, while great riders, I don't think can win the Tour.
 
TDF was the strongest but the Giro was not quite the same as La Vuelta although it's hard to compare the two.

I think Remco is third in the GT pecking order right now. The pecking order is about achievement but also about future potential so riders like Roglic, Carapaz, Thomas are ranked lower because of their most recent results/injuries/crashes.

  1. Tadej Pogacar (23) TDF 1st (2020, 2021) 2nd 2022 Vuelta 3rd (2019)
  2. Jonas Vingegaard (25) TDF 1st (2022), 2nd (2021)
  3. Remco Evenepoel (22) Vuelta 1st (2022)
  4. Primoz Roglic (32) TDF 2nd (2020), 4th (2018) Giro 3rd (2019) Vuelta 1st (2019, 2020, 2021)
  5. Egan Bernal (25) TDF 1st (2019), Giro 1st (2021) Vuelta 6th (2021) - I would put Bernal higher but with his back issues and his horror crash it's more of a wait and see.
  6. Jai Hindley (26) TDF Giro 1st (2022) 2nd (2020) Vuelta 10th (2022)
  7. Richard Carapaz (29) TDF 3rd (2021) Giro 1st (2019) 2nd (2022) 4th (2018) Vuelta 2nd (2020)
  8. Enric Mas TDF 5th (2020) Vuelta 2nd (2018,2021, 2022) 5th (2019)
  9. Juan Ayuso (19) Vuelta 3rd (2022)
  10. Joao Almeida Giro 4th (2020) 6th (2021) Vuelta 5th (2022)
HM
Carlos Rodriguez (21) Vuelta 7th (2022)
Thymen Arensman (22) Vuelta 6th (2022)
Cian Uijtdebroeks (19) 1st L'avenir
I would put Thomas above or at Hindley / Carapaz. That was a mighty effort he made to finish 3rd in the Tour.
 
The part you highlighted is the key; numbers and tactics. If everyone follows Remco on terrain that suits him they will, of course see high outputs. He knows that and applied sound tactics. The lack of preceding aggression or counterattacks until the last few stages showed they could have done better. Carapaz raced stages to win while other raced to not lose IMO.
Not sure I TOTALLY follow. If you follow Remco and can put out similar watts, great, but if you can't match the numbers, you can't follow. His attacks in week 1 weren't particularly tactical, it was just a matter of who could match the watts. He dropped people not by hard attacks, but by simply ratcheting up the numbers and seeing who could hang on. Also, I'm not as sure what "his terrain" really is, as he won on the steepest climb as well as more shallow ones. Seems to me when he's on form, uphill is his terrain, regardless of the gradient.
 
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Comparing performances of different GT's is difficult because its influenced by a mix of conditions, team, opposition and actual rider performance. For example, I think that Remco's performance could be much better than the actual numbers show if you consider his team and his crash. A super dom that can keep his pace during a big part of the climbs of the 2nd and 3rd week would give him that extra bit of energy to punch his opponents much harder during a final 15 min all out effort. Just imagine Remco in a team with Kuss, Roglic and Wout as his super doms. I think he would be in the mix for a TdF win in his 2022 Vuelta shape.
 
...The climbs at this past tour, would be a lot worse to remco.
i am not saying that this could not eventually turn out to be the case.

however, it does appear that this is the new narrative of the doubters.

it used to be that he would be dropped/crushed on any steep climb. then he did exactly that to all his opponents.

he crushed everyone on the 6-8% stuff as well.

it is true that on the one long climb to high altitude he lost a little time to mas (and was arguably better than or at least even with rog since he led the majority of the way). i think it is a jump from there to say that he showed his real limits there. he was still very clearly recovering from the crash and admitted that it was all about defending that day.

while the narrative that the doubters now hold on to could indeed end up true, i find it hard to state this as fact.

another possible narrative -- had remco never crashed -- is that he would not have had a single "bad day" and may even have stomped the others on the two stages at the end of week 2. even if he had simply been on par with mas (which he was at bare minimum everywhere else), there would have been no discussion on the last rest day that he was threatened by rog or mas.
 
In the interviews about the Worlds TT he alluded to being done after this week...is he not doing Lombardia this year?
nope.

in fact he says that all pressure is off for the WCs because his season is done. however, he says he still wants to try and win - don't get him wrong - and that he feels good. but he does not know how the legs will be on the day and how his opponents have prepared.
 
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Watching his post race reaction, breaking down into tears, listening to his comments, which included the milestone of getting married, his maturity and composure and really really admirable.
And this recent interview were he turns down the volume, he sets the definition of success rather than adopt him absolutely needing to get a, the result at worlds...wow.. He may have a handler, telling him intelligent, considerate things to say and do..maybe.. But I take it as a young guy with his feet on the ground, soaking it in.. I liked him before, but his reaction to almost everything I have seen looks sincere and the guy is 100% heart.. Big fan obviously
 
Watching his post race reaction, breaking down into tears, listening to his comments, which included the milestone of getting married, his maturity and composure and really really admirable.
And this recent interview were he turns down the volume, he sets the definition of success rather than adopt him absolutely needing to get a, the result at worlds...wow.. He may have a handler, telling him intelligent, considerate things to say and do..maybe.. But I take it as a young guy with his feet on the ground, soaking it in.. I liked him before, but his reaction to almost everything I have seen looks sincere and the guy is 100% heart.. Big fan obviously
i tend to agree.

perhaps literally almost dying and then going through hell to come back can change a person.

i did roll my eyes a bit when he was asked about the gap he put into rog in the ITT while he is cooling down on the rollers after.

he acted as if he was still unaware of the gap.
  1. he was probably told throughout the race on his radio
  2. he was certainly told soon after crossing the line
it seemed...well...a bit...

but i forgive him. ;-) and i agree i find him generally very appealing.

the key for me is that the crash and the many doubters actually make him an underdog. seems unlikely considering how he came into the pros from the junior ranks. but he really feels like an underdog most of the time and so i find it easy to pull for him. even now people are saying he does not compare with pog and vingo if they met at a GT. okay, but that just makes him even more appealing as the underdog and clearly fuels him to prove the naysayers wrong.
 

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