Teams & Riders The Remco Evenepoel is the next Eddy Merckx thread

[houtdffan]

WVA is a glorified Eric Zabel, who wins far less than did Zabel

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

WVA is a glorified Eric Zabel, who wins far less than did Zabel

Yeah, i remember the good old days, when Zabel dropped Armstrong in the mountains.

 

[Red Rick]

Yeah, i remember the good old days, when Zabel dropped Armstrong in the mountains.

Guy started with a 2 minute headstart and still finished a minute down on Pogacar.

By that logic I can drop Van Aert if he's already exhausted and I get to sprint at like 8W/kg for 10s.

 

[yaco]

Remco is receiving an appearance fee at San Loius - The Tour Down Under even made a bid - Appearance fees are still part of cycling including the Giro.

 

[Red Rick]

Remco is receiving an appearance fee at San Loius - The Tour Down Under even made a bid - Appearance fees are still part of cycling including the Giro.

I'm a bit curious as to what amounts races like San Louis can throw around. Still I would expect it to only really affect decisions when options are equal for the season buildup anyway.

 

[hayneplane]

Giro vs Tour is a risk/reward calculation where Giro is definitely the safer, more boring option.

I'm a little more curious as to why they already rule out Giro/Vuelta though.

Possibly as so few people have ever done the Vuelta for GC and been able to go on and contend at Lombardia in the last 15 years or so

 

[Red Rick]

Possibly as so few people have ever done the Vuelta for GC and been able to go on and contend at Lombardia in the last 15 years or so

That's simply not true? Most of the dominant Italian fall seasons are off the back of Vuelta participations. Between 2012 and 2018 all Lombardia winners raced the Vuelta. Yes, Pogacar is an outlier, but he's Pogacar and he only really wakes up for Lombardia. Enric Mas meanwhile suddenly turned into a 1 day racer off the back of the Vuelta, and even Landa went from anonymous Vuelta to Lombardia podium with basically nothing in between. Being good in Lombardia is actually harder if you don't race the Vuelta.

I also really doubt Lombardia would take any sort of priority in planning Evenepoels season. I think they just decided first and foremost he would only race 1 GT, picked the Giro, and then filled the rest of the season.

The one thing about Pogacar and Evenepoel will be that they won't be pressed that easily into doing 2 GTs a season to save their season or whatever.

 

[houtdffan]

Yeah, i remember the good old days, when Zabel dropped Armstrong in the mountains.

Zabel was winning in the Alps in 1996 on the stage to Gap when LA still couldn't finish the tour.

 

[hayneplane]

That's simply not true? Most of the dominant Italian fall seasons are off the back of Vuelta participations. Between 2012 and 2018 all Lombardia winners raced the Vuelta. Yes, Pogacar is an outlier, but he's Pogacar and he only really wakes up for Lombardia. Enric Mas meanwhile suddenly turned into a 1 day racer off the back of the Vuelta, and even Landa went from anonymous Vuelta to Lombardia podium with basically nothing in between. Being good in Lombardia is actually harder if you don't race the Vuelta.

I also really doubt Lombardia would take any sort of priority in planning Evenepoels season. I think they just decided first and foremost he would only race 1 GT, picked the Giro, and then filled the rest of the season.

The one thing about Pogacar and Evenepoel will be that they won't be pressed that easily into doing 2 GTs a season to save their season or whatever.

I had in mind winners as I can’t think of a Vuelta winner that went on to win Lombardia in the 21st century. When you go past top spot certainly several riders have carried the form with Enric Mas this year being a perfect example.

I guess it’s a big difference for Pogacar and Evenepoel as if they are forced out early in Giro or Tour their skillset translates to being able to win a lot of big one day races in the back half of the season whereas for Contador/Froome recalibrating for the Vuelta was the only realistic major option.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Guy started with a 2 minute headstart and still finished a minute down on Pogacar.

By that logic I can drop Van Aert if he's already exhausted and I get to sprint at like 8W/kg for 10s.

Ah yes, in that case Zabel would have totally pulled that off.

lol

 

[Red Rick]

I had in mind winners as I can’t think of a Vuelta winner that went on to win Lombardia in the 21st century. When you go past top spot certainly several riders have carried the form with Enric Mas this year being a perfect example.

I guess it’s a big difference for Pogacar and Evenepoel as if they are forced out early in Giro or Tour their skillset translates to being able to win a lot of big one day races in the back half of the season whereas for Contador/Froome recalibrating for the Vuelta was the only realistic major option.

I think this goes much more for the spring season, with Pogacar riding Vlaanderen and Sanremo instead of thinking about Giro/Tour stuff.

For the 2nd half the season it doesn't make that much sense to me, unless Pog really thought he had a good shot at this World Champs it that just wasn't it. I also think Pogacar just wasn't that motivated to race a 2nd GT.

 

[Salvarani]

I think this goes much more for the spring season, with Pogacar riding Vlaanderen and Sanremo instead of thinking about Giro/Tour stuff.

For the 2nd half the season it doesn't make that much sense to me, unless Pog really thought he had a good shot at this World Champs it that just wasn't it. I also think Pogacar just wasn't that motivated to race a 2nd GT.

Feel like Pog has not targeted the WC at all so far in his career. There has not been a route that suits him and he has ridden in support of others or used it as preparation, looking to peak for Lombardia and it has worked.

 

[Red Rick]

Ah yes, in that case Zabel would have totally pulled that off.

lol

I could make a list of all riders who can do Hautacam in 40 minutes but I don't have all decade

 

[Big Doopie]

Feel like Pog has not targeted the WC at all so far in his career. There has not been a route that suits him and he has ridden in support of others or used it as preparation, looking to peak for Lombardia and it has worked.

huh...?

he literally targeted it this year.

montreal win just before and he certainly wasn't riding for someone else, unless it was remco. lol.

he got beat. had bad legs on the day. but don't tell me he traveled halfway around the world (just after beating the WC favorite at Montreal) simply so as not to try.

pog is a great rider. but just like everyone else. he gets beat.

 

[Salvarani]

huh...?

he literally targeted it this year.

montreal win just before and he certainly wasn't riding for someone else, unless it was remco. lol.

he got beat. had bad legs on the day. but don't tell me he traveled halfway around the world (just after beating the WC favorite at Montreal) simply so as not to try.

pog is a great rider. but just like everyone else. he gets beat.

Sure, you are right.

 

[Berniece]

huh...?

he literally targeted it this year.

montreal win just before and he certainly wasn't riding for someone else, unless it was remco. lol.

he got beat. had bad legs on the day. but don't tell me he traveled halfway around the world (just after beating the WC favorite at Montreal) simply so as not to try.

pog is a great rider. but just like everyone else. he gets beat.

Indeed, he even rode in the front after Mount Keira when they were away with a small group. He clearly wanted to go for it, race and win.

 

[18-Valve. (pithy)]

“Whether organizer RCS pays a high appearance fee? I wish. You hear stories of Chris Froome getting a million to ride the Giro, but I don't believe that. ASO pays nothing anyway, but RCS doesn't pay huge fees either. The compensation is mainly in accommodation: extra hotel beds during the Giro or accommodation to bridge the periods between two RCS races in Italy.”

This is surprising, if true. I'm not convinced it is ...as it benefits RCS if they keep the $$$ total under wraps. It could be a plus for the team also. It fits the "it's all part of the plan" rhetoric better if there's no big paycheck involved.

Just a couple months ago Lefevere alluded to RCS handing out big appearance fees. He certainly seemed to believe these "stories" then.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

I could make a list of all riders who can do Hautacam in 40 minutes but I don't have all decade

That's not necessary. Just tell me if Zabel is one of them.

Spoiler: This might give you an idea.

Hautacam | Strava Ride Segment in Ayros-Arbouix, Occitanie, France

www.strava.com

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

This is surprising, if true. I'm not convinced it is ...as it benefits RCS if they keep the $$$ total under wraps. It could be a plus for the team also. It fits the "it's all part of the plan" rhetoric better if there's no big paycheck involved.

Just a couple months ago Lefevere alluded to RCS handing out big appearance fees. He certainly seemed to believe these "stories" then.

If it fits the "part of the plan" rhetoric, then why would he have insinuated there were going to be big fees? As i remember it, he never said that. I thought he said something along the lines of "we'll have to have a talk with RCS about that".

 

[18-Valve. (pithy)]

If it fits the "part of the plan" rhetoric, then why would he have insinuated there were going to be big fees? As i remember it, he never said that. I thought he said something along the lines of "we'll have to have a talk with RCS about that".

My bad, I didn't recall correctly. Just listened to the podcast again and it was the interviewer who made the claim about RCS' big appearance fees, not Lefevere. Although it was stated as a fact.

Lefevere seemed quite giddy, though, but indeed didn't confirm or deny.

 

[Bonimenier]

Feel like Pog has not targeted the WC at all so far in his career. There has not been a route that suits him and he has ridden in support of others or used it as preparation, looking to peak for Lombardia and it has worked.

Exactly, and he also didn't target the Tour this year.

 

[Oldermanish]

I think this goes much more for the spring season, with Pogacar riding Vlaanderen and Sanremo instead of thinking about Giro/Tour stuff.

For the 2nd half the season it doesn't make that much sense to me, unless Pog really thought he had a good shot at this World Champs it that just wasn't it. I also think Pogacar just wasn't that motivated to race a 2nd GT.

Pogi had a tough personal year and still finished a solid second in the Tour. Most other competitors wouldn't have come close to that level so I'd take that as an outlier. He also didn't spend much time whining about how tough it all was.

 

[BigCoward]

Pogi had a tough personal year and still finished a solid second in the Tour. Most other competitors wouldn't have come close to that level so I'd take that as an outlier. He also didn't spend much time whining about how tough it all was.

I think you are overestimating how much the death of a mother in law impacts on a man.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

I think you are overestimating how much the death of a mother in law impacts on a man.

There is no way to know that. Maybe the personal impact on him was negligible, but maybe it was immense on his wife/GF's mental state or time schedule so that it affected him substantially by proxy. I doubt any of us know the exact circumstances or personal connection their family has. Some athletes are really specific about their training routines etc, that a minor obstacle in their schedule can throw them off. I don't think that's the reason why he lost the TDF, but you can't rule out that it was a factor.

 

[Extinction]

There is no way to know that. Maybe the personal impact on him was negligible, but maybe it was immense on his wife/GF's mental state or time schedule so that it affected him substantially by proxy. I doubt any of us know the exact circumstances or personal connection their family has. Some athletes are really specific about their training routines etc, that a minor obstacle in their schedule can throw them off. I don't think that's the reason why he lost the TDF, but you can't rule out that it was a factor.

I don't think it was a factor, his own mother yes. His training would not have been affected, but only missing Liege, which has nothing to do with Tour preparation.