Teams & Riders The Remco Evenepoel is the next Eddy Merckx thread

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LBL-Worlds ITT/RR-San Sebastian for eternity.

Stage-hunt in GTs.

Win a couple of stage-races 1. Pro.

TDU, UAE Tour, Catalunya, Romandie, Tour de Pologne and Renewi Tour are probably the WT-stage races that suits him the best.

Other wins in hilly one-day races is possible.

It will amount to a few more wins, but the biggest races will be difficult.
 
This is omitting the fact he was scheduled to go to the 2020 Giro before COVID and his crash happened. If he had won that one, he probably would have gone to the Tour from 2021 onwards already, meaning by now we would have had 3 TDF worth of data points of Evenepoel vs. Pogacar, Vingegaard, instead of 0. Effectively, his crash and team's mismanagement set his career back by 3 years.

I'm not saying he would have defeated these two (easily), but if you're among the best, you should compete against the best.
I'd love getting set back in life by winning a couple of Lieges, the Vuelta and some World Championships!
 
That he maybe can win quite big stage races and perhaps shouldn't stagehunt in GTs?
Ok, be more clear next time if you want to have a discussion and say something more than just posting a link to one result.

He can go for GC, if he wants to give it a go. Dont see where I said he couldnt or shouldnt go for GC, so I dont understand your passive aggressive tone here Toby.

Again, I was responding to another poster mentioning if he should rethink his program. Me saying "stage-hunt in GTs" was only based on that he has been quite successful at it. How about asking what I mean instead of responding in a smug way like you always do.

Stop assume and make it out that I said something I havent again.
 
Ok, be more clear next time if you want have a discussion and say something more than just posting a link to one result.

He can go for GC, if he wants to give it a go. Dont see where I said he couldnt or shouldnt go for GC, so I dont understand your passive aggressive tone here Toby.

Again, I was responding to another poster mentioning if he should rethink his program. Me saying "stage-hunt in GTs" was only based on that he has been quite successful at it. How about asking what I mean instead responding in a smug way like you always do.

Stop, assume and dont make it out that I said something I havent.

I interpreted "stagehunt in GTs" as "you're not good enough to do GC there anyway" which is an opinion I have seen being thrown around a lot lately. And I think that is frankly a ridiculous opinion on someone who has won a Grand Tour inside the last 2 years.

I thought my posting of that result would articulate that viewpoint quite clearly but if you truly didn't mean what you wrote as a slight against him, I understand the confusion.
 
I interpreted "stagehunt in GTs" as "you're not good enough to do GC there anyway" which is an opinion I have seen being thrown around a lot lately. And I think that is frankly a ridiculous opinion on someone who has won a Grand Tour inside the last 2 years.

I thought my posting of that result would articulate that viewpoint quite clearly but if you truly didn't mean what you wrote as a slight against him, I understand the confusion.
I cant speak for others what they mean when say it, but it wasnt the intention on my part.

No big deal, we move on.
 
This is omitting the fact he was scheduled to go to the 2020 Giro before COVID and his crash happened. If he had won that one, he probably would have gone to the Tour from 2021 onwards already, meaning by now we would have had 3 TDF worth of data points of Evenepoel vs. Pogacar, Vingegaard, instead of 0. Effectively, his crash and team's mismanagement set his career back by 3 years.

I don’t think this can be emphasized enough.

Having said that, I have my doubts he can rival Vingo and Pog at Tdf.
 
It's really a shame that the competition to winning GT is limited to 2/3 teams
Interesting, I feel like with 4 teams (depending on one’s POV) in the mix in 2024, it’s going to be more teams than usual legitimately going for GC. And Ineos could surprise. Very interesting setup assuming everyone is fit and healthy. I think it has a good chance to be a all-time Tour.
 
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I don’t think this can be emphasized enough.

Having said that, I have my doubts he can rival Vingo and Pog at Tdf.
Actually... this can be emphasized too much, and indeed has been emphasized too much here.
But ok, let's play out this scenario here to the end:

This is omitting the fact he was scheduled to go to the 2020 Giro before COVID and his crash happened. If he had won that one, he probably would have gone to the Tour from 2021 onwards already, meaning by now we would have had 3 TDF worth of data points of Evenepoel vs. Pogacar, Vingegaard, instead of 0. Effectively, his crash and team's mismanagement set his career back by 3 years.

I'm not saying he would have defeated these two (easily), but if you're among the best, you should compete against the best.

Now he wins the Giro 2020 and then goes to the TdF 21-23. So of course he doesn't win the Vuelta 22 anymore, no 22 year old will do 2 GTs in a year with the aim to do well (full GTs).
Giro in, Vuelta out, better palmares, agreed. But what does this do to let's say San Sebastian? 22? After he Tour? Yes, he goes and wins, no change, agreed. 23? With the WC waiting, where he has 2 bigger goals, he skips it in 23. To be there for the WC. Better preparation than he had in reality, but sorry, we were told it wasn't his form, but that the route simply didn't fit him, so he still doesn't win. Talking about WC, 22, coming out hot from the Vuelta, now it's a break after the Tour, on a course that didn't really seem to be selective enough for him. I'm afraid I have to take away his WC Road win too. But well, Giro, twice Liège, twice San Sebastian, data points at the TdF (whatever that will be, I let the creator of this scenario fill out that blank...) and WC TT, still a good palmares. A but wait, aren't we in "no crash universe" Yes, Liège, wasn't there something? Ah yes, a certain team leader, Monsieur Alaphilippe crashing out in 2022. But he's old and done? No no, here is something that actually hasn't been emphasized nearly enough: How Alaphilippe after his Liège crash 22 hasn't been even close to his pre crash results. So he's still the leader as the race goes on without him crashing out, Remco as the loyal team mate that he is doesn't attack, Alaphilippe wins the sprint of a small group, Van Aert either isn't there or too exhausted to be a danger to Alaphilippe. And 23? Well, Pogacar crashed, he's not going to be dropped by Remco in Liège, he's beating him in the sprint, if Remco even has the self confidence to attack there, after all he's never done that before and still waits for his first big monument or WC win.

So well, maybe it's time to accept reality and Remco's actual palmares, his actual career, that includes his crash im Lombardia, that includes his bad luck with Covid in 22, but that also includes his good luck with others crashing out or not even starting in Liège. (And I think Alaphilippe and Pogacar winning LBL in 22-23 is less of a stretch than Remco winning the Giro 20) Accept that Remco isn't the best pro rider at the moment, that's Pogacar. Going back to the crash, regularly (mostly when something didn't work as plannd, or Remco simply can't be regarded as number 1) prolonging the negative efffect it's suppsed ot have had on his career, we're now at 3 years... will we still be hearing how all would have been different if he doesn't win Amstel 28?

And his team's mismanagement, again, what exactly? It comes up regularly, but when has the weak teamt actually cost him a race? I still can't come up with an example. It's more about preparation and his program? Apart from the fact that I doubt that Remco is some sort of robot that does exactly what they tell him, without having any input himself.. what exactly was wrong? Letting him ride the Giro 21? I still don't see how that has hurt his career in the least, it definitely hurt the ego of his fans, who were all over the place telling us how Remco was going to win this. Turned out the "haters" were right, and nowadys the fans are trying to dismiss his result there with the exact same arguments the "haters" used BEFORE and DURING the Giro. Basically saying "the haters were right, that's why they are wrong". But did riding that Giro hurt him, his development? Sorry, no. After crashing out, he was back flying pretty soon., winning Belgium. He had a good season. It could have been better without the crash, sure, nobody is claiming that was a huge career boost, but would it have been better without riding the Giro? Doubtful. Probably the experience helped him in the Vuelta 22, having experience riding more than a week already. Riding the Vuelta 23? Of course almost everybody, "hater" or absolutely objective Remco fan here agreed that he should ride either the Tour or the Vuelta after his bad luck in the Giro. If he hadn't ridden the Vuelta that would now be hold up as evidence of mismanagement. So the team mismanagement that is holding him back is what, preparation? Or maybe here too, maybe it's time to accept reality. And reality is: Remco is a hell of a rider, but he's neither the best rider (that's still Pogacar, no change since I started writing this post, I checked) or unbeatable. Sometimes he's just simply not good enough. Even Pogacar sometimes isn't good enough. When Remco doesn't win it doesn't have to be the Lombardia crash 20, or the team, sometimes simply others are better. Really! Trust me, while I'm frustratingly often wrong with my predictions, on this one I'm confident I'm right (and Bilbao would have won the vuelta 23 if Bahrain had just let him start, no doubt at all about that one)
 
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T
Actually... this can be emphasized too much, and indeed has been emphasized too much here.
But ok, let's play out this scenario here to the end:



Now he wins the Giro 2020 and then goes to the TdF 21-23. So of course he doesn't win the Vuelta 22 anymore, no 22 year old will do 2 GTs in a year with the aim to do well (full GTs).
Giro in, Vuelta out, better palmares, agreed. But what does this do to let's say San Sebastian? 22? After he Tour? Yes, he goes and wins, no change, agreed. 23? With the WC waiting, where he has 2 bigger goals, he skips it in 23. To be there for the WC. Better preparation than he had in reality, but sorry, we were told it wasn't his form, but that the route simply didn't fit him, so he still doesn't win. Talking about WC, 22, coming out hot from the Vuelta, now it's a break after the Tour, on a course that didn't really seem to be selective enough for him. I'm afraid I have to take away his WC Road win too. But well, Giro, twice Liège, twice San Sebastian, data points at the TdF (whatever that will be, I let the creator of this scenario fill out that blank...) and WC TT, still a good palmares. A but wait, aren't we in "no crash universe" Yes, Liège, wasn't there something? Ah yes, a certain team leader, Monsieur Alaphilippe crashing out in 2022. But he's old and done? No no, here is something that actually hasn't been emphasized nearly enough: How Alaphilippe after his Liège crash 22 hasn't been even close to his pre crash results. So he's still the leader as the race goes on without him crashing out, Remco as the loyal team mate that he is doesn't attack, Alaphilippe wins the sprint of a small group, Van Aert either isn't there or too exhausted to be a danger to Alaphilippe. And 23? Well, Pogacar crashed, he's not going to be dropped by Remco in Liège, he's beating him in the sprint, if Remco even has the self confidence to attack there, after all he's never done that before and still waits for his first big monument or WC win.

So well, maybe it's time to accept reality and Remco's actual palmares, his actual career, that includes his crash im Lombardia, that includes his bad luck with Covid in 22, but that also includes his good luck with others crashing out or not even starting in Liège. (And I think Alaphilippe and Pogacar winning LBL in 22-23 is less of a stretch than Remco winning the Giro 20) Accept that Remco isn't the best pro rider at the moment, that's Pogacar. Going back to the crash, regularly (mostly when something didn't work as plannd, or Remco simply can't be regarded as number 1) prolonging the negative efffect it's suppsed ot have had on his career, we're now at 3 years... will we still be hearing how all would have been different if he doesn't win Amstel 28?

And his team's mismanagement, again, what exactly? It comes up regularly, but when has the weak teamt actually cost him a race? I still can't come up with an example. It's more about preparation and his program? Apart from the fact that I doubt that Remco is some sort of robot that does exactly what they tell him, without having any input himself.. what exactly was wrong? Letting him ride the Giro 21? I still don't see how that has hurt his career in the least, it definitely hurt the ego of his fans, who were all over the place telling us how Remco was going to win this. Turned out the "haters" were right, and nowadys the fans are trying to dismiss his result there with the exact same arguments the "haters" used BEFORE and DURING the Giro. Basically saying "the haters were right, that's why they are wrong". But did riding that Giro hurt him, his development? Sorry, no. After crashing out, he was back flying pretty soon., winning Belgium. He had a good season. It could have been better without the crash, sure, nobody is claiming that was a huge career boost, but would it have been better without riding the Giro? Doubtful. Probably the experience helped him in the Vuelta 22, having experience riding more than a week already. Riding the Vuelta 23? Of course almost everybody, "hater" or absolutely objective Remco fan here agreed that he should ride either the Tour or the Vuelta after his bad luck in the Giro. If he hadn't ridden the Vuelta that would now be hold up as evidence of mismanagement. So the team mismanagement that is holding him back is what, preparation? Or maybe here too, maybe it's time to accept reality. And reality is: Remco is a hell of a rider, but he's neither the best rider (that's still Pogacar, no change since I started writing this post, I checked) or unbeatable. Sometimes he's just simply not good enough. Even Pogacar sometimes isn't good enough. When Remco doesn't win it doesn't have to be the Lombardia crash 20, or the team, sometimes simply others are better. Really! Trust me, while I'm frustratingly often wrong with my predictions, on this one I'm confident I'm right (and Bilbao would have won the vuelta 23 if Bahrain had just let him start, no doubt at all about that one)
This is such a BS response, I don't even know where to begin. Alaphilippe wins 22 Liege? Really? Well he'd have had to keep up with Evenepoel when he attacked, and he still would have attacked, but I don't see him doing so (Nibali said Remco went 3 times as fast as everyone else). The 2021 Giro didn't have an adverse effect? Many said it was a foolish bet, it was, and the rest of his season suffered as a result (after already losing 6 months because of the crash). Pogacar is currently the best one day racer in the world, not the best GT racer in the world. Until he gets his throne back, if he can, Vingegaard is king. This year's Giro was a debacle, because of Covid and then Soudal and he expected to defend his Vuelta title after having gone all-in for Worlds ITT and ride the RR. It was too much, especially going up against Jumbo-Visma, who focussed only on winning a record third GT in one year. Remco gets beaten when riders are better, but he and his team are guilty of imprudent decision making, poor planning, with bad luck striking at the wrong time. It happens to other riders too, but there seems to be a pattern that's not beneficial. He also crashed twice in week one at the last Giro, before getting sick. It's difficult to win, or even maximize your potential, under such circumstances. He must prove himself against Vingegaard, Pogacar and Roglic at the Tour, although on Quickstep I don't see him succeeding. Maybe on another team, but it's looking as if Remco shouldn't have signed on for such a long term at Lefebvre's outfit. No way this team can win the Tour, at least under it's current make-up. If Remco, however, has a good run-up to the Tour, doesn't have a major setback in week one, we will see if he is a potential yellow jersey winner or not. But so far, a final verdict is impossible to make.
 
Pog is 2 time TdF champion and 2 time runner up. Vingo has done *** in one day races and lets see when he beats MVP in Flandres. Thats what overall means.
You're only as good as you're last Grand Bouclé baby. When MVP can challenge for the Tour, then we can talk. Overall means climbing and TT power and, most importantly, you are not allowed to have a bad day in three weeks. The classics riders are children in comparison. I think it's fairly clear that being exceptionally good on one day, isn't the same as being capable of winning a three week bike race. The biggest freak is thus the Tour winner, because it's the biggest bicycle race in the world, but this is history, so I don't need to explain that. So if folks want to insist Pogacar is the biggest freak out there, when he gets his teeth kicked out at the Tour by Vingegaard, go ahead, but then there is reality.
 
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You're only as good as you're last Grand Bouclé baby. When MVP can challenge for the Tour, then we can talk. Overall means climbing and TT power and, most importantly, you are not allowed to have a bad day in three weeks. The classics riders are children in comparison. I think it's fairly clear that being exceptionally good on one day, isn't the same as being capable of winning a three week bike race. The biggest freak is thus the Tour winner, because it's the biggest bicycle race in the world, but this is history, so I don't need to explain that. So if folks want to insist Pogacar is the biggest freak out there, when he gets his teeth kicked out at the Tour by Vingegaard, go ahead, but then there is reality.
So to be clear. Beating someone in the TT at the tour to win it is greater than otherwise doing similar while also winning RVV/Flanders, Lombardia and third at worlds where Jonas wouldn't even bother showing up for the schooling he would receive :)

Jonas is amazing. But Pogacar is something we haven't seen since merckx. It is very special.
 
You're only as good as you're last Grand Bouclé baby. When MVP can challenge for the Tour, then we can talk. Overall means climbing and TT power and, most importantly, you are not allowed to have a bad day in three weeks. The classics riders are children in comparison. I think it's fairly clear that being exceptionally good on one day, isn't the same as being capable of winning a three week bike race. The biggest freak is thus the Tour winner, because it's the biggest bicycle race in the world, but this is history, so I don't need to explain that. So if folks want to insist Pogacar is the biggest freak out there, when he gets his teeth kicked out at the Tour by Vingegaard, go ahead, but then there is reality.
Vinge has one goal only.
If Pog would focus on the same goal only, he would give Vinge a better fight. I'm not saying Pog would win though.
 
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You're only as good as you're last Grand Bouclé baby. When MVP can challenge for the Tour, then we can talk. Overall means climbing and TT power and, most importantly, you are not allowed to have a bad day in three weeks. The classics riders are children in comparison. I think it's fairly clear that being exceptionally good on one day, isn't the same as being capable of winning a three week bike race. The biggest freak is thus the Tour winner, because it's the biggest bicycle race in the world, but this is history, so I don't need to explain that.
Bad and lazy reasoning.
 
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So to be clear. Beating someone in the TT at the tour to win it is greater than otherwise doing similar while also winning RVV/Flanders, Lombardia and third at worlds where Jonas wouldn't even bother showing up for the schooling he would receive :)

Jonas is amazing. But Pogacar is something we haven't seen since merckx. It is very special.
It's all in the engine dude, and Vingegaard presently has the biggest mother-fer engine size out there.