Teams & Riders The Remco Evenepoel is the next Eddy Merckx thread

[armchairclimber]

Re:

Ok, maybe this is a bit more realistic. He's still 9th in GC.

And that's after messing up and having to spend a long time pulling the peloton into s tiff headwind.

 

[18-Valve. (pithy)]

Re: Re:

Ok, maybe this is a bit more realistic. He's still 9th in GC.

And that's after messing up and having to spend a long time pulling the peloton into s tiff headwind.

He's 9th on GC because of his fantastic ITT, though (that he probably could have won by a few seconds) and because there was only one MTF. Someone said that he looked worse than Alaphilippe earlier on, so I doubt he could have stayed with that group if he didn't have to do any dom duties. He obviously would have lost less, but was not on Mäder's level today.

I hope they'll select Evenepoel for the UAE Tour, so we can get a clearer picture, but I doubt it somehow. I think they'll give him a break after Algarve. (Though I'd rather see he'd skip that one instead and they have him focus on the race with 14 and 20km MTFs)

 

[Tim Booth]

Re: Re:

Ok, maybe this is a bit more realistic. He's still 9th in GC.

And that's after messing up and having to spend a long time pulling the peloton into s tiff headwind.

He's 9th on GC because of his fantastic ITT, though (that he probably could have won by a few seconds) and because there was only one MTF. Someone said that he looked worse than Alaphilippe earlier on, so I doubt he could have stayed with that group if he didn't have to do any dom duties. He obviously would have lost less, but was not on Mäder's level today.

I hope they'll select Evenepoel for the UAE Tour, so we can get a clearer picture, but I doubt it somehow. I think they'll give him a break after Algarve. (Though I'd rather see he'd skip that one instead and they have him focus on the race with 14 and 20km MTFs)

probably will ride UAE and not Algarve

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Re: Re:

Ok, maybe this is a bit more realistic. He's still 9th in GC.

And that's after messing up and having to spend a long time pulling the peloton into s tiff headwind.

He's 9th on GC because of his fantastic ITT, though (that he probably could have won by a few seconds) and because there was only one MTF. Someone said that he looked worse than Alaphilippe earlier on, so I doubt he could have stayed with that group if he didn't have to do any dom duties. He obviously would have lost less, but was not on Mäder's level today.

I hope they'll select Evenepoel for the UAE Tour, so we can get a clearer picture, but I doubt it somehow. I think they'll give him a break after Algarve. (Though I'd rather see he'd skip that one instead and they have him focus on the race with 14 and 20km MTFs)

Seriously? How much has Mäder pulled the peloton all week? Has he been leading out sprints? Did he pull for miles uphill into the wind? How many gaps did he close and how many times did he have to follow an attack? Remco's 19 years old, Mäder is a full 3 years older. And now Remco is "only 9th thanks to his ITT", and because there was only one MTF? Well, if he had to start pulling the peloton again for 5k uphill right when the attacks begin, sure, he would probably have lost more time again, that's true. Just like any pro would have in those circumstances, just like Mäder would have, or Bernal had they been ordered to pull. And the fact that Mäder lost 35 seconds on Remco in a 12k ITT, I guess Mäder just should have ridden harder, shouldn't have been a problem apparently. And last i checked, ITT do count for GC, and are often more important than MTF. One might also say, Mäder is "only" 2 seconds behind Remco, because the ITT was only 12k long. How far would he have been behind if the ITT were 30k?

He wouldn't have been able to follow even if he didn't have DOM duties? He was gone in a break, and was then ordered to drop back in order to pull for Alaphilippe.

He should never have been put into the position to have to do this work for Alaphilippe in the first place. Not on Mäders level. Give me a break. He lost 30 seconds on Mäder in spite of working his ass off, while Mäder just had to follow the bunch. I don't know what some of you are expecting to be honest. Mäder was one of the top U23 of his generation. All last year people have been claiming Remco was just ahead of his age, or that his generation of juniors was not talented. Now, he's ahead of one of the top U23 guys from last year, while having done a lot more work, and it's "Meh, not on Mäder's level". Only 9th because of his ITT (i assume this is time "given" to Remco "for free", right?) Kid's been riding a bike for 21 months.

I'm sorry but this is getting a bit too surreal for me.

https://sporza.be/nl/2019/02/01/san-juan-rit-5/

Video of him telling what happened. He was too far in the bunch when Anacona went due to "circumstances" (don't know if he's refering to the fact that he dropped his bottle or if he dropped back to get a new one?). He then had to close the gap when Carapaz attacked, but the guy riding in between, hit Carapaz's wheel and fell, holding up Remco, so he had to close the gap a second time. He says he did some efforts that could have been avoided. Then Bramati told him to pull the peloton full gas. Very tough conditions (headwind), he wasn't used to the thin air on this kind of altitude. Then when he saw that Mäder went with the bunch, he knew he had to keep pulling as hard as he could for 3k even though he was empty.

 

[IndianCyclist]

Re: Re:

Ok, maybe this is a bit more realistic. He's still 9th in GC.

And that's after messing up and having to spend a long time pulling the peloton into s tiff headwind.

I donot understand the messing up thing. This is his first pro race. It would be the responsibility of the DS to tell him to move up prior to the climb with proper followup. I would put the messup as the DS/road captain's fault. Maybe even Ala's fault for not marshaling his resources for the expected Movi Attack

 

[Koronin]

Re: Re:

Ok, maybe this is a bit more realistic. He's still 9th in GC.

And that's after messing up and having to spend a long time pulling the peloton into s tiff headwind.

I donot understand the messing up thing. This is his first pro race. It would be the responsibility of the DS to tell him to move up prior to the climb with proper followup. I would put the messup as the DS/road captain's fault. Maybe even Ala's fault for not marshaling his resources for the expected Movi Attack

I'm not sure how Remco can be blamed for this. He's 19 in his first pro race. The DS or Ala should have been letting him know what he's supposed to be doing and where he needs to be and when he needs to be where. Is that not the job of either the DS or the race/team leader or both?

 

[18-Valve. (pithy)]

Re: Re:

I'm sorry but this is getting a bit too surreal for me.

Agreed that it's impossible to draw any hard conclusions from this, which is why I mentioned the UAE Tour.

I just looks like his ITT ability far exceeds his climbing ability at the moment. Maybe that's mostly due to circumstances, but I don't know if that's the only reason.

 

[armchairclimber]

Re: Re:

Ok, maybe this is a bit more realistic. He's still 9th in GC.

And that's after messing up and having to spend a long time pulling the peloton into s tiff headwind.

I donot understand the messing up thing. This is his first pro race. It would be the responsibility of the DS to tell him to move up prior to the climb with proper followup. I would put the messup as the DS/road captain's fault. Maybe even Ala's fault for not marshaling his resources for the expected Movi Attack

Fair point.

 

[SafeBet]

He's been nothing short of amazing thus far. I understand the expectations were sky high, but geez, he's a 2000 in his first ever pro race facing a tricky race situation with shortage of useful teammates.
Let's keep it real.

 

[Squire]

Re: Re:

I'm sorry but this is getting a bit too surreal for me.

Agreed that it's impossible to draw any hard conclusions from this, which is why I mentioned the UAE Tour.

I just looks like his ITT ability far exceeds his climbing ability at the moment. Maybe that's mostly due to circumstances, but I don't know if that's the only reason.

One hard conclusion you can draw is that he's been mightily impressive for a 1st year U23. Miles ahead of my expectations, at least.

 

[DNP-Old]

If you, prior to the race, told me that Remco would work his ass off for Alaphilippe to a point where he was completely spent after taking on a lot of headwind, only to finish a mere 30 seconds behind said Alaphilippe and Nairo, I would've applauded him.

 

[RedheadDane]

The Danish ES commentators (one of which/whom - sorry, can't English... - is Evenepoel's own DS) actually made a pretty good point yesterday, namely that he might need to learn how to ride tactically.
You don't need much tactic to just ride away from everyone and win with almost 10 minutes…

 

[wheresmybrakes]

Re:

The Danish ES commentators (one of which/whom - sorry, can't English... - is Evenepoel's own DS) actually made a pretty good point yesterday, namely that he might need to learn how to ride tactically.
You don't need much tactic to just ride away from everyone and win with almost 10 minutes…

Lets see how often he does it against WT teams. So far so good for the kid, but people need to give him a break and stop expecting/hyping too much. Geez, it's starting to extract the urine at the moment with some of the comments. It's early season, let him grow up.

 

[18-Valve. (pithy)]

Re:

If you, prior to the race, told me that Remco would work his *** off for Alaphilippe to a point where he was completely spent after taking on a lot of headwind, only to finish a mere 30 seconds behind said Alaphilippe and Nairo, I would've applauded him.

I'm perhaps more interested in the *type* of GC rider he'll eventually become than most here. Obviously expectations were through the roof after stages 2 and 3. On this forum, too. N. Quintana didn't go for it, FWIW.

I agree with other posters that it's unfortunate that R.EV had to slave for Alaphilippe to this extent. Let's hope he'll have more of a free role at the UAE Tour, if he races that one.

 

[Kazistuta]

Why is it unfortunate? Isn't it one of the ways to "learn the ropes"? I get that he's an interesting prospect, by why doesn't he have to partake in defending a team mates leaders jersey, just because he's young and perhaps as big a talent as Sagan, Bernal or even Merckx?

 

[DNP-Old]

It’s not unfortunate at all. Prior to the race he said himself that his main goal was to help Alaphilippe.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Re:

It’s not unfortunate at all. Prior to the race he said himself that his main goal was to help Alaphilippe.

He also said he wanted to ride a good result. He also said he doesn't want to DOM for another rider unless it pays off. He also said he wanted to see how far he could follow the big boys. He also said he wanted to defend his green jersey...

So, to me, it's unfortunate that the team didn't bring an extra guy that could help in this particular stage, if they intended to go for GC with Alaphilippe. Maybe, had Keisse still been there, that Vakoc could have waited, and that Remco would have been spared a while longer. But the fact is that they weren't up to the task. Now, Remco nearly lost his green jersey (which he very much deserved) because of it. Sure, we got to see him perform, but i think i speak for most people, that it would have been more interesting to see if he could have stayed with Quintana's bunch (or better). That, is what i find unfortunate. I'm happy he kept his jersey, although he nearly lost it again today, seeing as Mäder only barely missed the 2 second gap in the front of the peloton.

I just looks like his ITT ability far exceeds his climbing ability at the moment. Maybe that's mostly due to circumstances, but I don't know if that's the only reason.

I'm perhaps more interested in the *type* of GC rider he'll eventually become than most here.

The most obvious answer based on his way of riding (specifically as a junior) is that he'd be a tempoclimber that does killer ITT's, not a typical climber/mountaingoat. The first name that always pops into my head is Indurain, based on his style and strengths. Not so much on character, on that front you might want to compare him to De Gendt. But i guess that will subside over time, if he becomes more clinical and cynical.

 

[yaco]

Heaven help us that a gifted 19 year old helps his leader in a team sport - What's happened to the world !

 

[18-Valve. (pithy)]

Re: Re:

The most obvious answer based on his way of riding (specifically as a junior) is that he'd be a tempoclimber that does killer ITT's, not a typical climber/mountaingoat. The first name that always pops into my head is Indurain, based on his style and strengths. Not so much on character, on that front you might want to compare him to De Gendt. But i guess that will subside over time, if he becomes more clinical and cynical.

He's not exactly built like Indurain, hence my confusion. Especially if he can shed some fat he'll be among the lightest European GC riders ever. He's already comparable in weight to Gilberto Simoni in race shape and has about the same height.

Obviously these two are not built the same, but which former GC rider(s) does he resemble physically?

 

[Midnightfright]

Re: Re:

The most obvious answer based on his way of riding (specifically as a junior) is that he'd be a tempoclimber that does killer ITT's, not a typical climber/mountaingoat. The first name that always pops into my head is Indurain, based on his style and strengths. Not so much on character, on that front you might want to compare him to De Gendt. But i guess that will subside over time, if he becomes more clinical and cynical.

He's not exactly built like Indurain, hence my confusion. Especially if he can shed some fat he'll be among the lightest European GC riders ever. He's already comparable in weight to Gilberto Simoni in race shape and has about the same height.

Obviously these two are not built the same, but which former GC rider(s) does he resemble physically?

He's also 19, it's perfectly reasonable that there will be further growth. I'm no expert on the subject but further physical development he quite possible isn't it?

 

[Robert5091]

The kid's 19 and in his first pro race, so let's remember that. He's still on a learning experience.

 

[GuyIncognito]

Re: Re:

The most obvious answer based on his way of riding (specifically as a junior) is that he'd be a tempoclimber that does killer ITT's, not a typical climber/mountaingoat. The first name that always pops into my head is Indurain, based on his style and strengths. Not so much on character, on that front you might want to compare him to De Gendt. But i guess that will subside over time, if he becomes more clinical and cynical.

He's not exactly built like Indurain, hence my confusion. Especially if he can shed some fat he'll be among the lightest European GC riders ever. He's already comparable in weight to Gilberto Simoni in race shape and has about the same height.

Obviously these two are not built the same, but which former GC rider(s) does he resemble physically?

He's Tyler Hamilton's height, weight and characteristics

 

[yaco]

My understanding that Mitchelton Scott who had a big crack at Evenepoel, profiled him as being a GC rider - Time will tell.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Re: Re:

The most obvious answer based on his way of riding (specifically as a junior) is that he'd be a tempoclimber that does killer ITT's, not a typical climber/mountaingoat. The first name that always pops into my head is Indurain, based on his style and strengths. Not so much on character, on that front you might want to compare him to De Gendt. But i guess that will subside over time, if he becomes more clinical and cynical.

He's not exactly built like Indurain, hence my confusion. Especially if he can shed some fat he'll be among the lightest European GC riders ever. He's already comparable in weight to Gilberto Simoni in race shape and has about the same height.

Obviously these two are not built the same, but which former GC rider(s) does he resemble physically?

Indeed they are not the same. That's why i spoke about style and strengths not about build. He severely lacks punch; when he tries to attack, not much happens. The way he's been riding as a junior, is like a one-man Sky-train. Set the pace nobody can follow. I don't know if you saw the "sprint" he won at Lunigiana... he just killed the guys in his wheel (i think 5 or so guys were able to follow him) over the course of 30k, and he increased the tempo for the final 1k, and none of the guys could sprint out of his wheel. They were all spent. It probably would have been a different story with different gears, but now the gears weren't big enough to jump out of his wheel because of the pace he set. He chokes his rivals out.

I don't know which rider he resembles most physically, but does it matter? He will probably even lose more fat, and he might gain a cm or two. I doubt it will much affect his style of riding.

Heaven help us that a gifted 19 year old helps his leader in a team sport - What's happened to the world !

This is not the issue. He was only 22 seconds behind his "leader", he was defending his own classification. He was virtually on the podium (due to Gaviria being thrown overboard), in his first pro race, he was gone in the break... and then they tell him to drop back to pull for Alaphillipe, because they were one or two guys short. Maybe Alaphilippe should have ridden for him and they'd still be in the lead :lol:

They're lucky Evenepoel didn't just let it slide after he did his job, or they'd also have lost that classification.

 

[Koronin]

He's a 19 year old rookie. He should be working for his teammates to learn. He'll still get his opportunities, but right now he needs to learn.