Teams & Riders The Remco Evenepoel is the next Eddy Merckx thread

[red_flanders]

Re:

San Sebastian was a race that you necessarily wanted to have on your honors list. What are the others?

“Liège-Bastogne-Liège, Tour of Lombardy, Giro, Tour, Vuelta, the World Cup and the Olympic Games. When I have all of those, I will stop racing. "

Interesting list! Clearly the kid sees climbing as a strength moving forward. I was surprised not to see Roubaix or Flanders not on that list, as he seems to have the engine for both, and for someone from that part of the country I'd have thought they'd be much desired. But cool to see what he values.

For those saying he's a fit for MSR, that's also surprising to me. I would think you'd need speed, or a lot of power and excellent to tremendous descending skills to win that one. Would not occur to me that MSR was a great fit for him, though I would rule out nothing at this point.

I see him as a small guy with a ton of power. Seems a perfect fit to excel in GT's if he can recover. No way to know that yet.

 

[GuntherL]

Re:

Yeah, Milano-Sanremo looks like a veyy good race for him. Hopefully DQS has him riding it already next year. First successful attack before the Poggio in many years.

I don't think he's got much of a chance in Milan - San Remo. Strade Bianche however is made for him.

 

[red_flanders]

Re: Re:

Yeah, Milano-Sanremo looks like a veyy good race for him. Hopefully DQS has him riding it already next year. First successful attack before the Poggio in many years.

I don't think he's got much of a chance in Milan - San Remo. Strade Bianche however is made for him.

Such a great race, and not the longest. Hope to see him ride it next year. Great call.

 

[Red Rick]

It's been too long since somebody made a winning move on the Turchino

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Re: Re:

Yeah, Milano-Sanremo looks like a veyy good race for him. Hopefully DQS has him riding it already next year. First successful attack before the Poggio in many years.

I don't think he's got much of a chance in Milan - San Remo. Strade Bianche however is made for him.

Judging by the first stage in Adriatica Ionica, with similar gravel/dirt roads as Strade, i would think not.

The Poggio on the other hand, is a climb where he'd fly. Normally not steep enough to attack but if Remco has a headstart at the foot of the Poggio, i don't know who would reel him back in since he can set an unreal pace on such a slope, at least on the form he rode San Sebastian and the 3rd stage in Adriatica Ionica. It's hard seeing him win with a late attack in MSR.

 

[Gigs_98]

Remco to attack on the Cipressa while Alaphilippe waits for the Poggio. I love it

 

[GuntherL]

Re: Re:

Yeah, Milano-Sanremo looks like a veyy good race for him. Hopefully DQS has him riding it already next year. First successful attack before the Poggio in many years.

I don't think he's got much of a chance in Milan - San Remo. Strade Bianche however is made for him.

Judging by the first stage in Adriatica Ionica, with similar gravel/dirt roads as Strade, i would think not.

The Poggio on the other hand, is a climb where he'd fly. Normally not steep enough to attack but if Remco has a headstart at the foot of the Poggio, i don't know who would reel him back in since he can set an unreal pace on such a slope, at least on the form he rode San Sebastian and the 3rd stage in Adriatica Ionica. It's hard seeing him win with a late attack in MSR.

With no punch and no sprint, he doesn't stand much of a chance in MSR. Sprinter teams would have more resources than two exhausted Movistar guys at the Poggio.
We already agreed that his crashes have more to do with inappropriate agression and recklessness than his ability to steer. Strade Bianche is also very selective and the peloton gets downsized pretty quickly. It's a race where the strongest man usually wins and the steep climb at the end would fit him perfectly.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Re: Re:

Yeah, Milano-Sanremo looks like a veyy good race for him. Hopefully DQS has him riding it already next year. First successful attack before the Poggio in many years.

I don't think he's got much of a chance in Milan - San Remo. Strade Bianche however is made for him.

Judging by the first stage in Adriatica Ionica, with similar gravel/dirt roads as Strade, i would think not.

The Poggio on the other hand, is a climb where he'd fly. Normally not steep enough to attack but if Remco has a headstart at the foot of the Poggio, i don't know who would reel him back in since he can set an unreal pace on such a slope, at least on the form he rode San Sebastian and the 3rd stage in Adriatica Ionica. It's hard seeing him win with a late attack in MSR.

With no punch and no sprint, he doesn't stand much of a chance in MSR. Sprinter teams would have more resources than two exhausted Movistar guys at the Poggio.
We already agreed that his crashes have more to do with inappropriate agression and recklessness than his ability to steer. Strade Bianche is also very selective and the peloton gets downsized pretty quickly. It's a race where the strongest man usually wins and the steep climb at the end would fit him perfectly.

It wasn't just 2 Movistar guys. Astana put two guys in front as well. Also, he doesn't have to fear the strongest team chasing him... because he rides for that team. And it would obviously depend on which doms are chasing, and how big his headstart is. But I just don't see anybody close 30 seconds on him once he starts steamrolling up the Poggio. I'm sure there are guys that could bring him back, but i doubt they'd either be riding MSR, be in top shape or blow their own chances in the persuit. I can see guys like Roglic or Dumoulin take him on/down, sure. But are those guys gonna ride MSR?

He's a rouleur that weighs 60 kg. Poggio is basically created by the Roman gods, just so Evenepoel could one day blast up it in TT mode. The climb is not nearly steep enough for true climbers to come closer, and of all the tempo domestiques, there is none i can immediately think of that can beat Evenepoel on a 4% gradient.

 

[red_flanders]

Has the meaning of rouleur changed, or am I missing something? While it means an strong all rounder, it generally hasn’t been applied to big winners or champions. More of a Jens kind of thing.

Surely that’s not what people are seeing here? He would seemed to have dispatched any such label this past weekend, no?

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Re:

Has the meaning of rouleur changed, or am I missing something? While it means an strong all rounder, it generally hasn’t been applied to big winners or champions. More of a Jens kind of thing.

Surely that’s not what people are seeing here? He would seemed to have dispatched any such label this past weekend, no?

A rouleur, how i always understood it, is a rider who can maintain a high pace for a long time and doesn't seem to suffer, usually with a smooth/ITT'ish style, big engines. So it's unrelated to being a winner or not. Cancellara, De Gendt, Voigt, Evenepoel...

 

[ppanther92]

I honestly wonder what he could do at cobbles classics. His engine should in theory be perfect for PR

On the other hand cobbled races were the ony two races he started and didn't win in 2018. 11th at Gent-Wevelgem and even OTL at Paris-Roubaix.

 

[DNP-Old]

I honestly wonder what he could do at cobbles classics. His engine should in theory be perfect for PR

On the other hand cobbled races were the ony two races he started and didn't win in 2018. 11th at Gent-Wevelgem and even OTL at Paris-Roubaix.

Roubaix was a disaster due to two mechanicals. In sector 5 his handle bar broke off and he had to wait to get a new bike from the organisation. Then, on Carrefour de l'Arbre he had a flat that resulted in him having to walk the rest of the race. Prior to those occurrences, he was, of course, in the lead.

 

[Leinster]

He walked 15km to the Velodrome?

 

[Valanga]

Re:

He walked 15km to the Velodrome?

Nah he got a new wheel at the end of Carrefour, so he had to walk only 2 km ;-)

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

O...K... there are about two pages missing. I was assuming they would first close the old forum, backup the database with messages, import it into the new forum, and put it online...

Anyway

Regarding him "getting dropped" on the penultimate climb, a guy on twitter checked the footage, and it appears he climbed exactly as fast as Mas & Valverde. He had lost a lot of positions prior to the climb, which supports the theory that he had indeed struggled with mechanical issues and wasn't dropped on the actual climb. He starts the climb all the way in the back, 10 seconds later than the front of the peloton. At the top of the climb, he is leading the chase... 10 seconds behind the front of the peloton.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1158700056083648512

View: https://twitter.com/v1dnez/status/1158700056083648512

 

[red_flanders]

Re:
A rouleur, how i always understood it, is a rider who can maintain a high pace for a long time and doesn't seem to suffer, usually with a smooth/ITT'ish style, big engines. So it's unrelated to being a winner or not. Cancellara, De Gendt, Voigt, Evenepoel...

Disagree on the definition, but helpful to understand how it's being used. To me rouleur makes no sense as a label for him, but it's just a terminology thing. No worries.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cuEo2efB3uE

 

[18-Valve. (pithy)]

Re: Re:


Which perfectly explains why currently he's doing way better on flats and hilly terrain than in the few high mountain races he's done.

Seriously they keep talking about how Evenepoel still doesn't eat like a professional and *** and it's weird he doesn't do as well in the high mountains as on flatter terrain?

Obviously this is not an unfixable issue.

Not sure if that's all there's to it, though. You probably need to have the right kind of muscle fiber to become an elite climber.

Also - he doesn't look that "fat" tbh and will likely add some "useless" upper body muscle also.

 

[Red Rick]

Not sure if that's all there's to it, though. You probably need to have the right kind of muscle fiber to become an elite climber.

Also - he doesn't look that "fat" tbh and will likely add some "useless" upper body muscle also.

Not sure it's muscle fiber but rather muscle groups/recruitment on steep inclines maybe. He's already very aerobic and notoriously unexplosive. If a signficant part of his rouleur skills is due to a very aero bike position then that's not gonna help on the climbs.

But yeah I imagine if he adds more muscle it's not gonna be good for his climbing.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Disagree on the definition, but helpful to understand how it's being used. To me rouleur makes no sense as a label for him, but it's just a terminology thing. No worries.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cuEo2efB3uE

Yeah... i don't know if i would take the word of a Brit on what the meaning is of a French word, in a sport that historically has seen little interest in England.

From French wikipedia:

"Un rouleur est un coureur cycliste particulièrement performant sur les longues distances et les contre-la-montre, spécialiste de l'effort solitaire."

So: Excells in long distance, timetrialing, solo efforts...

Not sure if that's all there's to it, though. You probably need to have the right kind of muscle fiber to become an elite climber.

Also - he doesn't look that "fat" tbh and will likely add some "useless" upper body muscle also.

If anything, he will lose upper body muscle (which he has lost a lot of already since his football days).

 

[red_flanders]

It’s but one of dozens of sources I found in 2 mins with the same definition, as well as my own historical context for the term going back to Belgium in the 70s. Use it how you like of course, but I’m quite confident it’s not a term one would correctly apply to a champion, team leader, or big winner. It’s for all rounder domestiques.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

If you just look at the actual meaning of the word, you would also assume it to mean something like "smooth roller". Why would it have ever been used primarily (or even exclusively) for a domestique? Merckx, Indurain... also rouleurs imho. It's more about style and ability than it is about function. I'm sure you have your reason to believe how you heard it is correct, but personally, i just don't think that means it's correct. But... ok, doesn't really matter.

 

[roundabout]

O...K... there are about two pages missing. I was assuming they would first close the old forum, backup the database with messages, import it into the new forum, and put it online...

Anyway

Regarding him "getting dropped" on the penultimate climb, a guy on twitter checked the footage, and it appears he climbed exactly as fast as Mas & Valverde. He had lost a lot of positions prior to the climb, which supports the theory that he had indeed struggled with mechanical issues and wasn't dropped on the actual climb. He starts the climb all the way in the back, 10 seconds later than the front of the peloton. At the top of the climb, he is leading the chase... 10 seconds behind the front of the peloton.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1158700056083648512

View: https://twitter.com/v1dnez/status/1158700056083648512

That's not the start of the climb. Or at least not the start of the 'official' 4,1 km.

Here's Evenepoel vs the front of the group closer to the top of the climb (I picked the point where there is an obvious change in asphalt quality on the left hand side of the road as reference point)

View: https://youtu.be/n871v2M8gCs?t=6

View: https://youtu.be/n871v2M8gCs?t=20


Gap is around 15 seconds here

Yes, two and a half minutes later he closes it to 10 seconds

And then makes it back (I am assuming he is 6th from the back here)

View: https://youtu.be/n871v2M8gCs?t=239


Only to get dropped on the descent and have to chase again

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

That's not the start of the climb. Or at least not the start of the 'official' 4,1 km.
...
Gap is around 15 seconds here
Yes, two and a half minutes later he closes it to 10 seconds

I don't know where exactly the climb starts, but the fact that he is in the back of the peloton, shortly before the start of the climb, and halfway the climb, kind of makes a good case to show he didn't get dropped "on" the climb. If your info is correct, it's even possible he climbed faster than the head of the peloton.

(I will assume he did not sprint to the front of the peloton in those 2k before the official start of the climb, in order to drop 15 seconds on the climb, and start climbing 5s faster from there on.)

EDIT: just checked the footage, when the climb officially starts, Evenepoel is still at the back of the peloton. So we can be 100% positive that he was already at the back and didn't get dropped on the climb.

 

[spalco]

If you just look at the actual meaning of the word, you would also assume it to mean something like "smooth roller". Why would it have ever been used primarily (or even exclusively) for a domestique? Merckx, Indurain... also rouleurs imho. It's more about style and ability than it is about function. I'm sure you have your reason to believe how you heard it is correct, but personally, i just don't think that means it's correct. But... ok, doesn't really matter.

Nah, I mostly agree with red_flanders here. Calling a GT GC winner a rouleur is ridiculous.

But then, Remco isn't a champion yet, he isn't (just) a TTer or a puncheur, so I think for now, "rouleur" fits, but that could change soon.

I do think Cancellara was a rouleur though mostly, so it's not just domestiques strictly. And anyway, it's not a demeaning title, many great riders were rouleurs.

 

[red_flanders]

It's fine, I've certainly seen people use it the way you do, but much more often it's been applied to domestiques. Doesn't matter, I was just surprised to see it in the context of someone with so much potential.

And I haven't figured out the quoting yet. No worries...