Teams & Riders The Remco Evenepoel is the next Eddy Merckx thread

[Big Doopie]

no matter. we can agree to disagree.

it will be exciting no doubt. and if he fails the rest of this season, i am sure i will be hearing a lot of "I told you so's".

for me, nothing honestly compares to what Remco has done since I watched Merckx on RTB 45+ years ago. Or listened to his exploits on the radio with Luc Varenne.

and i think one of the ways Remco is different is the variety of ways he has already won.

whether that carries on to similar Merckx-like dominance, we can wait and see.

and it may not.

in historical context, however, everything points to something very, very special -- not just your "standard" top/talented rider.

and that is extremely exciting to me - as a fan of the sport.

 

[zenoiz]

I edited my post a bit after you posted, added some more context.

Agreed about him dying young, feeding the myth.

To add a bit more context (I was in my early twenties when VdB was on the scene): I think VdB was wildly popular in both Flanders and Wallonia during his lifetime; mostly in the sense of a pop culture / rock star: his Cipollini-esque flamboyance (the dyed hair, glam outfits, sports cars, the interviews exuding a steely-eyed determination), a personal life that could have come straight out of a soap opera (cfr. the story of Sarah and the Vuelta '99) and was plastered all over the tabloids at the time (not so much social media then), the fact that he won races while going out partying the night before and more or less boasted about that... while all of this brashness put off some, he could get away with a lot of it because of the flashes of brilliance he showed - think e.g. Scheldeprijs (of all races!) 1996 - and his retro-elegant style on the bike that was universally adored by the hard core cycling fans, invoking visions of mythical days gone when Coppi-like legends would ride away to the horizon just on their sheer talent...

Of course, the results never really matched up to the myth (except for that LBL and Vuelta) and then there were the drugs.

And now Remco; I haven't heard anyone become lyrical about his style on the bike, and besides the bit of brouhaha about his victory salute(s), there isn't much controversy or sensationalism to be found around his persona, let alone the bad-boy glamour of VdB or even Boonen in some of his days. He is popular because of his results (which probably already exceed VdB's palmares) and the near-unprecedented ways in which he achieves them; he is loved because he is the One who has to break Belgium's horrendous, decades-long GC drought...

 

[Sandisfan]

Sandisfan said:


As I have seen more of Remco I haven't warmed as much to his personality as I though I might, that said since I followed his rise in the threads on this site I feel like I have an investment in him doing well.

As for Sagan (ifs will be following ) if Quicksteppers were a Specialized team and if Lefevre (sp) been in for Sagan and if he had extra money to sign him for his best years don't you think Sagan would have had better results with better support?




I have been on messages boards for 20 years or so with this User name originally from a NHL Hockey message board referring to Sandis Ozlinch(sp) and I am Usually a lurker taking and not giving back LOL but I do occasionally try to add to the conversation.

To be ontopic I am a watcher of Remco not yet a Fan like I am With Sagan.

P.S. At the site La Flamme Rouge where you can make your own cycling routes for imagined races I have made some routes there under my Sandisfan user name if you have been there. I have two interesting ones that I think if I was a billionaire it would make pretty good WRR championship routes one for the mens and one for the mens ITT if I mostly sponsored the Race. They have lost the access to the Google maps engine at that site last time I checked and I haven't been able to update my routes because of that. On the mens race I found a connecting road to the last climb not as steep as i would like, either climb, but if I had the money I think adding some medium cobbles might be enough and there is a good decent after Apple (don't remember if road or street or avenue) and if the finish would be short enough to stay away after the climb and short decent to make an exciting race. If you go to google maps and look up Jenner (tiny coast town) near Santa Rosa California on the coast about 10 miles away the finish to the ITT would be picturesque. Also during the time of the year that the Championships are usually held the weather would be amazingly good 85 to 90 percent during that time of time Year.

Sorry about bumping my post mostly about my WRR mens race Track/Route at La Flamme Rouge under Sandisfan but It was the wrong fruit not Apple road but instead Cherry Ridge Road.

ON Topic I will be watch his next race for sure and see how the peloton reacts to any move he makes.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Dries De Bondt told Vandegoor that there was an instance where he was in Evenepoel's wheel during an attack, and that his aerodynamic posture is so insane, that he had to push 100w more in his wheel. De Bondt, claims to try to make sure he is aero himself as well.

Now, it wasn't clear if he was saying "100w more than Remco", or what exactly he meant, but apparently, staying in Remco's wheel is easier said than done. Victor Campenaerts said something similar in his vlog, that he had to push the same watts in Remco's wheel, as he would normally push if he went solo. Knowing that Campenaerts is also a small guy and is an aero freak, that means a lot.

 

[Bonimenier]

Dries De Bondt told Vandegoor that there was an instance where he was in Evenepoel's wheel during an attack, and that his aerodynamic posture is so insane, that he had to push 100w more in his wheel. De Bondt, claims to try to make sure he is aero himself as well.

Now, it wasn't clear if he was saying "100w more than Remco", or what exactly he meant, but apparently, staying in Remco's wheel is easier said than done. Victor Campenaerts said something similar in his vlog, that he had to push the same watts in Remco's wheel, as he would normally push if he went solo. Knowing that Campenaerts is also a small guy and is an aero freak, that means a lot.

I believe he was talking about the national championship last year. He probably meant that he had to push 100W more in Remco's wheel than when he sat in Wallays' and De Wulf's(?) wheel.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

I believe he was talking about the national championship last year. He probably meant that he had to push 100W more in Remco's wheel than when he sat in Wallays' and De Wulf's(?) wheel.

That makes sense.

 

[Gigs_98]

That seems insane though. Is stuff like that common?

In any case, it's not really an explanation for how good he is. Not being able to ride in his slipstream doesn't explain nobody being able to catch him or his TT's. But it's just another thing that makes him possibly even more dangerous.

 

[Big Doopie]

That seems insane though. Is stuff like that common?

In any case, it's not really an explanation for how good he is. Not being able to ride in his slipstream doesn't explain nobody being able to catch him or his TT's. But it's just another thing that makes him possibly even more dangerous.

tho it may mean that Remco may not be pushing the huge numbers one may think to do what he does.

 

[Red Rick]

The discrepancy between his size, his climbing on big climbs, and his results on rolling terrain and ITTs that he's extremely aero.

 

[18-Valve. (pithy)]

tho it may mean that Remco may not be pushing the huge numbers one may think to do what he does.

I've wondered about that after his disappointing results in those E-races a few months back. But how much do crazy aerodynamics help you on a steep climb? Climbing at or slightly above Landa's level is no small feat.

 

[Big Doopie]

I've wondered about that after his disappointing results in those E-races a few months back. But how much do crazy aerodynamics help you on a steep climb? Climbing at or slightly above Landa's level is no small feat.

but he should be able to climb well being small and powerful, so i don't think it is so much help there.

it is more that because he is so aero, he can do great ITTs and solo away on the flat despite being small.

i think that is where the aero part kicks in.

 

[rghysens]

That seems insane though. Is stuff like that common?

In any case, it's not really an explanation for how good he is. Not being able to ride in his slipstream doesn't explain nobody being able to catch him or his TT's. But it's just another thing that makes him possibly even more dangerous.

It does explain a lot.
Being very aerodynamic means that you need a lower power output to maintain a certain speed (because there's less air resistance), and that increases with your speed squared. So the higher your speed, the more you benefit from it. So imagine RE manages to have the same power output as someone who's chasing him, than he'll ride away because less of that power is needed to overcome air resistance
It also means that on long, steep climbs (where speed is low) his advantage should be less. But that really didn't showon picon blanco. Maybe the high pace on the flat before the climb wore Landa, Bennet,... more out than him.
I am realy looking forward to the Giro high mountain stages, to see how he compares to the top climbers. Well, if he isn't in pink by 15 minutes or so if they reach them.

 

[Andre]

To add a bit more context (I was in my early twenties when VdB was on the scene): I think VdB was wildly popular in both Flanders and Wallonia during his lifetime; mostly in the sense of a pop culture / rock star: his Cipollini-esque flamboyance (the dyed hair, glam outfits, sports cars, the interviews exuding a steely-eyed determination), a personal life that could have come straight out of a soap opera (cfr. the story of Sarah and the Vuelta '99) and was plastered all over the tabloids at the time (not so much social media then), the fact that he won races while going out partying the night before and more or less boasted about that... while all of this brashness put off some, he could get away with a lot of it because of the flashes of brilliance he showed - think e.g. Scheldeprijs (of all races!) 1996 - and his retro-elegant style on the bike that was universally adored by the hard core cycling fans, invoking visions of mythical days gone when Coppi-like legends would ride away to the horizon just on their sheer talent...

Of course, the results never really matched up to the myth (except for that LBL and Vuelta) and then there were the drugs.

And now Remco; I haven't heard anyone become lyrical about his style on the bike, and besides the bit of brouhaha about his victory salute(s), there isn't much controversy or sensationalism to be found around his persona, let alone the bad-boy glamour of VdB or even Boonen in some of his days. He is popular because of his results (which probably already exceed VdB's palmares) and the near-unprecedented ways in which he achieves them; he is loved because he is the One who has to break Belgium's horrendous, decades-long GC drought...

Beautifully written!!!

 

[spalco]

That seems insane though. Is stuff like that common?

In any case, it's not really an explanation for how good he is. Not being able to ride in his slipstream doesn't explain nobody being able to catch him or his TT's. But it's just another thing that makes him possibly even more dangerous.

Evenepoel is evidently one of the strongest TTers in the world, irrespective of how big a slipstream he leaves behind, so that alone makes him difficult to catch up to when he really gets going. That alone isn't something that's unique to him imo. A dedicated breakaway of a couple strong guys (or just one) can frequently hold off a larger but not as compact and dedicated group.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

That seems insane though. Is stuff like that common?

In any case, it's not really an explanation for how good he is. Not being able to ride in his slipstream doesn't explain nobody being able to catch him or his TT's. But it's just another thing that makes him possibly even more dangerous.

It means he's hugely energy efficient. After 4 hours of racing, when he's still fresh as a daisy, it could well be the reason why he can choke others who needed to dig a lot deeper at that point. Combined with those guys not feeling any relief when they are in his wheel, it kind of makes sense.

While others have virtually no advantage of sitting in his wheel, he has double the advantage of sitting in anybody else's wheel. Coupled with the fact that his power outputs are also above average, and that he 's a natural endurance athlete (as shown by the fact that he ran a semi marathon at the age of 16, without any prep).

It also means that on long, steep climbs (where speed is low) his advantage should be less. But that really didn't showon picon blanco. Maybe the high pace on the flat before the climb wore Landa, Bennet,... more out than him.
I am realy looking forward to the Giro high mountain stages, to see how he compares to the top climbers. Well, if he isn't in pink by 15 minutes or so if they reach them.

Like i said, this doesn't only benefit him when he attacks. It benefits him throughout the entire race. When he arrived at Picon Blanco, he started the climb with a lot more reserves than other riders.

 

[hayneplane]

I believe he was talking about the national championship last year. He probably meant that he had to push 100W more in Remco's wheel than when he sat in Wallays' and De Wulf's(?) wheel.

And he is already vastly improved from that time.

 

[kiszol]

Attila Valter was interviewed after Pologne.
He said that Remco has very thick thighs ("twice as thick as mine although I don't have particularly thick legs") and his whole build is very "thick", so it's even more apparent IRL.

Ha also said that during the Queen stage he had bad luck with the decisions (which attacks to track etc.) so he arrived to the finish 9 minutes after Remco (and still finishing 27th on that stage!) despite feeling much better. When he arrived he saw a repeat of the Yates - Majka fight for 3rd and he thought that was for the first place. Then someone told him that Evenepoel came in over 2 minutes before them and he couldn't beleive it.

 

[hayneplane]

He is already the favourite with nearly every major UK bookmakers and not far off being even money odds for the Giro.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Gotta love French chauvinism. Cyrille Guimard on Evenepoel: "I think he is better than Eddy Merckx. Maybe even better than Bernard Hinault"

 

[Bolder]

A lot of that aero advantage could be neutralized by train tactics, i.e., say Ineos loads up their train for a mountain stage with Bernal at the back. He should in theory be just as fresh as anyone at the foot of the final climb. I don't know how RE could gain an advantage in that situation.

But we won't know how he goes on a big climb at altitude until he tries it. And his advantages in other parts of a GT -- for example, ITTs or launching an attack from 50 k out on a hilly stage that nets hime 2 mintues -- may very well make that question less crucial.

I for one can't wait until the Giro...

 

[Red Rick]

I meant amongst super talents. A year ago Egan Bernal was next in line for absolute TDF domination, and people were talking about the start of a dynasty. Now I've seen people and journalists stating he's already behind Pogchamp. It's happened before (Ullrich, Vdb, Sagan and so on) and it'll happen again. People like to hype the now, but ultimately, everyone has a limit and will hit a wall. Being so talented can be a down fall as well.

That said, something else to Sagan? I'd doubt that. Sagan has done some incredible things in his time as well.

Honestly I didn't see Bernal as the next dominant TdF champion.

 

[Red Rick]

A lot of that aero advantage could be neutralized by train tactics, i.e., say Ineos loads up their train for a mountain stage with Bernal at the back. He should in theory be just as fresh as anyone at the foot of the final climb. I don't know how RE could gain an advantage in that situation.

But we won't know how he goes on a big climb at altitude until he tries it. And his advantages in other parts of a GT -- for example, ITTs or launching an attack from 50 k out on a hilly stage that nets hime 2 mintues -- may very well make that question less crucial.

I for one can't wait until the Giro...

Should probably make the point that taking 2 minutes in a hilly stage is less likely with a GT peloton chasing you.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Should probably make the point that taking 2 minutes in a hilly stage is less likely with a GT peloton chasing you.

Yes, unless there are no more domestiques around. Let's say there is a group of favorites on the top of the penultimate climb, or with a flat section of 30k after the last climb.

 

[Red Rick]

Yes, unless there are no more domestiques around. Let's say there is a group of favorites on the top of the penultimate climb, or with a flat section of 30k after the last climb.

Roglic not there Nibs will chase anyone.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Roglic not there Nibs will chase anyone.

He will try.