Teams & Riders The Remco Evenepoel is the next Eddy Merckx thread

[BlueRoads]

Times have changed. There won’t be any Merckxs now. The level, intensity, talent and teams make it impossible for anyone to dominate for extended periods and over different types of terrains.

Evenepoel specifically has yet a lot to prove before reaching the absolute top of today’s cycling elite. I’d rather favour the likes of JA, WvA, MVDP, Ganna, Merlier, Pidcock, Bernal, Pogacar, Asgreen etc … and the list goes on which shows to prove the abundance of talent.

Evenepoel has a lot to prove while Merlier and Pidcock don't?

 

[Valanga]

Times have changed. There won’t be any Merckxs now. The level, intensity, talent and teams make it impossible for anyone to dominate for extended periods and over different types of terrains.

Evenepoel specifically has yet a lot to prove before reaching the absolute top of today’s cycling elite. I’d rather favour the likes of JA, WvA, MVDP, Ganna, Merlier, Pidcock, Bernal, Pogacar, Asgreen etc … and the list goes on which shows to prove the abundance of talent.

So even Pidcock has already proven more than Evenepoel? Alrighty then.

Perhaps when you're really new to cycling and only started watching 9 months ago.

 

[spalco]

Times have changed. There won’t be any Merckxs now. The level, intensity, talent and teams make it impossible for anyone to dominate for extended periods and over different types of terrains.

Evenepoel specifically has yet a lot to prove before reaching the absolute top of today’s cycling elite. I’d rather favour the likes of JA, WvA, MVDP, Ganna, Merlier, Pidcock, Bernal, Pogacar, Asgreen etc … and the list goes on which shows to prove the abundance of talent.

Out of this list, the only one who might win a GT in the future, who hasn't already won a GT is Pidcock. Sure, Evenepoel still has much to prove, and he'll probably never win Roubaix or M-SR, but most of this list isn't really his competition in the races that matter most to him.

 

[Gigs_98]

In fact we don't really know yet what Evenepoel will be capable of in classics. If he was focused on classics instead of gt's right now people would probably talk of him as a future PR winner instead. I mean, how many 21 year olds with an engine like that are there? His size might be problematic on cobbles but honestly, I wouldn't be shocked at all if he ends his career with a phenomenal classics palmares.

 

[Barkintheeye]

Heated topic I see but no… Evenepoel will surely become a great rider, possibly a GT dominant in the years to come but a new Eddy Merckx. Unlikely.

Not that he lacks talent. Just that the competition is so much more today. Furthermore the intensity makes cycling that much more dangerous and volatile. This year’s one day classics and semi-classics was something to behold. Minuscule margins, extraordinary high speeds on tight winding roads with every team trying to be at the front. Nothing new this year but you really have to be exceptionally skilled and have a great deal of luck to avoid getting caught in incidents that could ultimately end your career. Today’s cycling is a hard and unrelenting environment but I really wish all the best to Evenepoel and also hope to see him battling at the front not only in GTs but also in one day races. Hope my point came across.

 

[bNator]

Out of this list, the only one who might win a GT in the future, who hasn't already won a GT is Pidcock.

WvA might disagree and I kind of expect him to complete his transition to GC contender. If it wasn't for Pogacar, he would have won Tirreno and beat the likes of Bernal, Yates, Landa... And there was plenty of climbs along the way.

I certainly would not count him out - he could be ready as soon as next year to go for GT... He has the potential and it's up to him whether he decides to focus on stage racing instead of classics.

 

[spalco]

Heated topic I see but no… Evenepoel will surely become a great rider, possibly a GT dominant in the years to come but a new Eddy Merckx. Unlikely.

Almost nobody even unironically claims that though, the thread title is strongly tongue-in-cheek. Not even Logic-is-your-friend, Remco's resident hypeman thinks that.

I do agree with you though for what it's worth. It's impossible to win as much as Merckx did today.

 

[Red Rick]

In fact we don't really know yet what Evenepoel will be capable of in classics. If he was focused on classics instead of gt's right now people would probably talk of him as a future PR winner instead. I mean, how many 21 year olds with an engine like that are there? His size might be problematic on cobbles but honestly, I wouldn't be shocked at all if he ends his career with a phenomenal classics palmares.

We'd talk about PR cause we talk about strive for 5 with everyone these days. Also, there's Pogacar.

 

[YavorD]

Heated topic I see but no… Evenepoel will surely become a great rider, possibly a GT dominant in the years to come but a new Eddy Merckx. Unlikely.

Well, if Remco ends up winning few GT's, 10-ish week long stage races, a WC and few monuments + some classics, that would be Merckx like palmares in todays peloton. Perhaps more impressive than Merckx. Because of how much more competitive cycling is today.
Of course no one will ever achieve the shear number of wins Merckx has, but that's not the right way to compare IMHO.

 

[BlueRoads]

Well, if Remco ends up winning few GT's, 10-ish week long stage races, a WC and few monuments + some classics, that would be Merckx like palmares in todays peloton. Perhaps more impressive than Merckx. Because of how much more competitive cycling is today.
Of course no one will ever achieve the shear number of wins Merckx has, but that's not the right way to compare IMHO.

If Pogacar doesn't get injured or other surprising things happen which take him out, I can see him very well with that palmares by the time he's 30.

 

[spalco]

Well, if Remco ends up winning few GT's, 10-ish week long stage races, a WC and few monuments + some classics, that would be Merckx like palmares in todays peloton. Perhaps more impressive than Merckx. Because of how much more competitive cycling is today.
Of course no one will ever achieve the shear number of wins Merckx has, but that's not the right way to compare IMHO.

But we know that in today's cycling it's still possible to win the Tour de France 4 times, as well as winning all 3 GTs, and multiple different monuments, so at a minimum that would be the start to claim Merckx-ish palmares in modern times.

 

[jflemaire]

In fact we don't really know yet what Evenepoel will be capable of in classics.

Well, we know he can win San Sebastian...

 

[topcat]

But we know that in today's cycling it's still possible to win the Tour de France 4 times, as well as winning all 3 GTs, and multiple different monuments, so at a minimum that would be the start to claim Merckx-ish palmares in modern times.

Really?

 

[spalco]

Really?

Really what? Froome won 4 TdFs, Nibali fullfills the other requirements. Neither of them are/were the next Merckx, but combined Froombali or Frooverde might have had that argument.

 

[topcat]

Really what? Froome won 4 TdFs, Nibali fullfills the other requirements. Neither of them are/were the next Merckx, but combined Froombali or Frooverde might have had that argument.

One rider hasn't done all that for a long time. It's also making me ill to think of siamese Froome-Nibali

 

[spalco]

One rider hasn't done all that for a long time. It's also making me ill to think of siamese Froome-Nibali

Sure, but individually it's possible, And I just think YavorD is aiming a little low if we're talking about Merckx-level palmares even in modern cycling.

 

[YavorD]

If Pogacar doesn't get injured or other surprising things ha

Really what? Froome won 4 TdFs, Nibali fullfills the other requirements. Neither of them are/were the next Merckx, but combined Froombali or Frooverde might have had that argument.

If we are going to combine 2 riders palmares just to make a valid point, surely one can combine say Hinault and let's say Coppi's palmares and say "well, none of them was Merckx but both combined...you know".
That's pointless. If a single rider combines Nibali's and Froome's achievements + wins WC (well, I'd put one more DIFFERENT monument, but LBL will do, that said feels strange to think that Nibali won MSR and didn't win LBL), I'd say that's pretty close to Merckx taking everything into account.

If Pogacar doesn't get injured or other surprising things happen which take him out, I can see him very well with that palmares by the time he's 30.

Agreed on Pogacar. I'd say that WVA is capable of getting close as well.

 

[Red Rick]

One rider hasn't done all that for a long time. It's also making me ill to think of siamese Froome-Nibali

All you need is Nibali hitting his peak earlier and with better luck/routes in Lombardia/Worlds etc

The case for Pogacar is that he actually has an elite sprint in his weight class too

Evenepoel I simply still have no idea how to rate though this Giro should teach a lot.

 

[Gigs_98]

The thing with Froome and Nibali is, Froome definitely didn't max out his career and Nibali, talent wise, just wasn't generationaly great.

Froome had his breakthrough aged 26, had to spend the first two years of his prime as a domestique, crashed out of the Tour in 2014 and got his years of tdf contention cut short by a crash. Despite being such a late bloomer, without those factors hampering his career Froome could have won as many tours as Armstrong, possibly even more, so 4 Tours (or the 5 of Mercx for that matter) are clearly not the maximum you can achieve in modern cycling.

Nibali on the other hand, with the exception of part of 2013 and 2014, never was a dominant force. He fulfills the requirement of multiple gt and multiple monument winner, yet is there really anyone thinking "there can't possibly be anyone as good at what he does as Nibali again"? Nibali is often seen as the guy who has that sort of palmares despite his talent not because of it (although that sounds a lot harsher than it is. Nibali is still clearly among the most talented riders in the peloton).

Sure, getting Mercx palmares isn't realistic nowadays, but can I see someone breaking the tdf and gt win records while winning a few monuments along the way? 100% yes. If anything those gt records are some of the major sports records that seem most breakable. Pretty sure that after the 2010 Tour there were more people thinking Contador will get to 11 gt wins, than there were people thinking he won't.

 

[spalco]

Sure, getting Mercx palmares isn't realistic nowadays, but can I see someone breaking the tdf and gt win records while winning a few monuments along the way? 100% yes. If anything those gt records are some of the major sports records that seem most breakable. Pretty sure that after the 2010 Tour there were more people thinking Contador will get to 11 gt wins, than there were people thinking he won't.

Definitely. And I don't mean to delve any deeper into that topic than necessary, but there was that one guy in a different time of cycling, long after Merckx' retirement, who finished first in a couple more TdFs than Merckx despite having an awkward career path and not being an exceptional talent himself.

I would not be shocked at all if that record got beaten in our lifetimes.

 

[BigCoward]

Its an interesting topic about what would be a Merckxian palmares nowadays. Because of specialisation now, I think anyone who got to 7/8 GTs and 5/6 monuments would have to be considered a generational talent.
Of current cyclists only Pogacar strikes me as a possibility, Roglic is too old and Remco untested at GT's.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

We'll al have to wait and see whether he comes back 100% or not. If you look at what he did in 2020... And especially the way he did it, he has the potential to be extremely dominant. Beating Ganna and Dennis in TTs, chasing a hilariously motorpaced group of favorites for 20km in San Juan, practically by himself and still nearly dropping everyone on the climb, toying with Fuglsang, Yates, Carapaz in Poland and the statement he made in Burgos. Yes, he was going to win Lombardia too.

And... Now... He's... Back. From outerspace? Not yet. While it's looking good, he's still quite a way off. His TT was great considering the circumstances, but it was not in the least bit a 2020-like performance. So let's give him time and pick this particular discussion up again when we know.

 

[Red Rick]

Its an interesting topic about what would be a Merckxian palmares nowadays. Because of specialisation now, I think anyone who got to 7/8 GTs and 5/6 monuments would have to be considered a generational talent.
Of current cyclists only Pogacar strikes me as a possibility, Roglic is too old and Remco untested at GT's.

Make that an "or" and you're still talking almost generational talents. Evenepoels problem in classics will be that he'll be a target from now and he doesn't have a sprint.

I don't think we should put too much stock into pre lockdown results when the landscape changed overnight.

 

[topcat]

Pogacar, Remco and how great Wout Art are exceptional but I don't think anyone is winning 7/8 gts and 5/6 monuments.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Make that an "or" and you're still talking almost generational talents. Evenepoels problem in classics will be that he'll be a target from now and he doesn't have a sprint.

I don't think we should put too much stock into pre lockdown results when the landscape changed overnight.

That's a rather naive way of looking at this particular issue. What he did in 2020, was already there in 2019. Hammer climb, Baloise Belgium Tour, Adriatica Ionica, San Sebastian, EU ITT, you can even count his silver medal in the ITT WCC for a 19 year old i think. And even before that the writing was on the wall with great performances at Turkey and San Juan (his first pro race, top 10 (might have won if not for team orders) and 3rd in a short flat ITT). Evenepoel's 2020 had little to do with "covid/lockdown" fishiness.