Teams & Riders The Remco Evenepoel is the next Eddy Merckx thread

[johnymax]

His both performances in his first two GC tests in the Giro were as "normal" or as "objectively expected" as it gets in my view. A very good ITT but not world beating performance, and very good showing today on the final climb, but lacked that little bit to follow the best 5 GC riders. So far as predicted. No miracles, but very much still in contention.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Recent trend is for riders to come out of training camps in very good form, so I wouldn't be certain of the conventional wisdom of improvement with more racing kilometers being very applicable.

Myeah, but how many of those examples came into the season cold, with 0 racemiles compared to the competition? So it's not far fatched to think he could improve, and it's also not far fetched that he will be fresher than the competition in week 3, since he's had no prior races. But it's also still quite possible that he came in undercooked and is missing too much of a base and implodes next week. But if he doesn't implode, i think it makes sense to assume he will get better.

 

[VeloMaster]

So far it has been a very standard Giro without the Remco narrative imo.

Very standard? Perhaps, if you only care about the GC saga. Or perhaps we were watching different stages. Granted, Stage One was a snore-fest, but since then we've had plenty of drama, action, and subplots.

 

[Big Doopie]

I hope we get to see stage 4 Poland remco before the end of the giro.

That’s what I hope.

This was not that.

 

[JosefK]

A good ride from Remco today (stage 4). He understood his capabilities on the day, didn't blow up and didn't panic. Did he take back a few seconds on the gap after the top of the last climb? I thought he might have managed that.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

A good ride from Remco today (stage 4). He understood his capabilities on the day, didn't blow up and didn't panic. Did he take back a few seconds on the gap after the top of the last climb? I thought he might have managed that.

According to the GPS he nibbled 7 seconds from the leading GC group after the top.

 

[jflemaire]

According to the GPS he nibbled 7 seconds from the leading GC group after the top.

If this is exact it's impressive on so short a distance. Also, I have the impression that the Bernal group was easing up in the last hundred metres (possibly because of rivalry between the riders?) while Remco was pulling his group like a boss.

 

[18-Valve. (pithy)]

Too early to draw any meaningful conclusions, but for now, it sorta looks like he's still a (much) better rouleur and TTer than a climber. (Despite the weight loss).

Paced himself very good yesterday... and then clawed back quite a few seconds on the false flat, while he started too fast in the TT and still easily beat out the other GC guys there.

 

[Valanga]

I also had the impression they were not really pushing anymore at the front. So that might mean that if they would have cooperated a little bit, they could have easily taken 30 seconds on Evenepoel and Yates.
Taking 18 seconds in such a short period isn't nothing.

They might regret this in the end.

 

[TomBonnen2005]

Myeah, but how many of those examples came into the season cold, with 0 racemiles compared to the competition? So it's not far fatched to think he could improve, and it's also not far fetched that he will be fresher than the competition in week 3, since he's had no prior races. But it's also still quite possible that he came in undercooked and is missing too much of a base and implodes next week. But if he doesn't implode, i think it makes sense to assume he will get better.

With a 4 weeks break in January... It's just amazing what Remco is doing right now in these conditions.

 

[Red Rick]

I feel that if there's one big stage he can win the Giro it's Montalcino

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

If this is exact it's impressive on so short a distance. Also, I have the impression that the Bernal group was easing up in the last hundred metres (possibly because of rivalry between the riders?) while Remco was pulling his group like a boss.

I also had the impression they were not really pushing anymore at the front. So that might mean that if they would have cooperated a little bit, they could have easily taken 30 seconds on Evenepoel and Yates.
Taking 18 seconds in such a short period isn't nothing.

They might regret this in the end.

Vlasov said they were all at the limit. I don't think those guys were easing up or not really pushing it. I think they couldn't go any harder. In the final 200 meters, Bernal comes to the front and actually starts sprinting. They all knew who was behind. Not only Evenepoel, but Yates as well. There is no possible scenario where Bernal, Landa, Carthy & Vlasov would have started squabbling about who was going to do the work, on a 2k stretch to the finish with two dangerous competitors right behind.

 

[Red Rick]

Time can get lost quite quickly if cooperation isn't that good. Also we didn't see the Evenepoel group that much apart from that one moment they showed Evenepoel with shaky camera footage which is always good when I need to *** myself. Also Giro GPS, bit of descending, it's hard to say how much time was lost where unless we use Strava files maybe?

 

[Netserk]

Rewatching it, other than a brief moment at the top of the climb where Vlasov bridges to the group, they all go as fast as they can. On the descent when we see Evenepoel's group for the first time after the climb, the gap is ~11'', the same as at the finish. I wouldn't trust the Giro GPS as far as I can throw it.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Rewatching it, other than a brief moment at the top of the climb where Vlasov bridges to the group, they all go as fast as they can. On the descent when we see Evenepoel's group for the first time after the climb, the gap is ~11'', the same as at the finish. I wouldn't trust the Giro GPS as far as I can throw it.

It's very possible that GPS was all over the place, or even that the first chasing group wasn't the Bernal group but the duo that got caught by the Bernal group on the line. But it's also quite impossible to take a time difference between both groups at the top, since the only time you see the Yates/Evenepoel group clearly, is 500 meters from the line. There is a moment where the helicopter shoots them through the trees but that's useless as a reference imho. But it does seem like it was Evenepoel vs the others. I didn't see Yates or Bardet do any pulling in the brief moments we saw the group.

 

[Netserk]

You also see Bernal's group at the exact same place between the trees on the descent.

 

[Luthor]

I also had the impression they were not really pushing anymore at the front. So that might mean that if they would have cooperated a little bit, they could have easily taken 30 seconds on Evenepoel and Yates.
Taking 18 seconds in such a short period isn't nothing.

They might regret this in the end.

Because they had Bernal there who was stronger than them. Vlasov&Ciccone was just happy to be there, Landa&Carthy did some small pulls and they let Bernal to do most of the work. Which is perfectly understandable, he looked the best among all and he has the strongest team. You don't battle just with Evenepoel & Yates and if they couldn't follow maybe they aren't even the strongest. You don't want to make huge pulls to get rid of Evenepoel & Yates just for Bernal to drop you in the last 500m. Most of them were at the limit imo, apart from Bernal, I think only Landa could've probably push harder.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Because they had Bernal there who was stronger than them. Vlasov&Ciccone was just happy to be there, Landa&Carthy did some small pulls and they let Bernal to do most of the work. Which is perfectly understandable, he looked the best among all and he has the strongest team. You don't battle just with Evenepoel & Yates and if they couldn't follow maybe they aren't even the strongest. You don't want to make huge pulls to get rid of Evenepoel & Yates just for Bernal to drop you in the last 500m. Most of them were at the limit imo, apart from Bernal, I think only Landa could've probably push harder.

I don't understand this reasoning. There were no boni seconds to be earned at the line, there was no climb in the final 2k, and we're talking about a two minute distance. Why would any of Vlasov, Carthy, Landa not pull because they feared getting dropped by Bernal? Where exactly would Bernal place an attack that would allow him to stay away from his companions? How many seconds could he possibly take on them?

I think they all pulled for what they were worth. If Bernal did most of the pulling, it wasn't because the others feared he would drop them, but because Bernal was the strongest and the others couldn't give anymore. Same in the chasing group where it was only Evenepoel who was pulling. If Bardet or yates could have gone harder, they would have taken a pull.

At least, that's how i see it.

 

[hayneplane]

I also had the impression they were not really pushing anymore at the front. So that might mean that if they would have cooperated a little bit, they could have easily taken 30 seconds on Evenepoel and Yates.
Taking 18 seconds in such a short period isn't nothing.

They might regret this in the end.

it did feel like as the group swelled to include more true contenders than were left behind the impetus and motivation to maximise the gains diminished. Vlasov was nearly dropped after his fight to bridge and had Landa/Bernal persisted he could easily have been forced to drift back to the Yates/Evenepoel group.

 

[Luthor]

I don't understand this reasoning. There were no boni seconds to be earned at the line, there was no climb in the final 2k, and we're talking about a two minute distance. Why would any of Vlasov, Carthy, Landa not pull because they feared getting dropped by Bernal? Where exactly would Bernal place an attack that would allow him to stay away from his companions? How many seconds could he possibly take on them?

I think they all pulled for what they were worth. If Bernal did most of the pulling, it wasn't because the others feared he would drop them, but because Bernal was the strongest and the others couldn't give anymore. Same in the chasing group where it was only Evenepoel who was pulling. If Bardet or yates could have gone harder, they would have taken a pull.

At least, that's how i see it.

Just as the guy who I quoted, for me it looked like they didn't went all-in for it. Esp Landa & Carthy. I just looked at the final kms and for me it looks like Landa still had something left in the tank. Of course it just a perception, I might be wrong. I didn't mean for Bernal to have a big attack but he could have a done a big acceleration at the end and if they went deep in red, they might not have been able to follow and fall back to the 2nd group. We don't know if it would've happened because none of them took risks. If this was in 3rd week and without a favorite in good form like Bernal in the group, I think some of them would've behaved differently.

 

[spalco]

Just as the guy who I quoted, for me it looked like they didn't went all-in for it. Esp Landa & Carthy. I just looked at the final kms and for me it looks like Landa still had something left in the tank. Of course it just a perception, I might be wrong. I didn't mean for Bernal to have a big attack but he could have a done a big acceleration at the end and if they went deep in red, they might not have been able to follow and fall back to the 2nd group. We don't know if it would've happened because none of them took risks. If this was in 3rd week and without a favorite in good form like Bernal in the group, I think some of them would've behaved differently.

Bernal was going as fast as he could though, in my opinion. And if Landa thought he's not able to go any faster, then it would have been pointless to try and overtake when there's nothing to gain on the line anyway.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Haha, looking at Knox, who usually looks like a teenager, and looks like an old man in the video, race must have been hard

https://twitter.com/x/status/1392421257489100800

View: https://twitter.com/deceuninck_qst/status/1392421257489100800

 

[Luthor]

Bernal was going as fast as he could though, in my opinion. And if Landa thought he's not able to go any faster, then it would have been pointless to try and overtake when there's nothing to gain on the line anyway.

The whole thing is about them not having a bigger gap to the Evenepoel group at the end, not gaining bonus seconds. I think in different circumstances, some of them would've gone harder and the gap would be bigger. If Bernal would've been alone, he would've gone harder imo. But he prob felt Landa&co play it safe and he won't drop them anyway

 

[spalco]

The whole thing is about them not having a bigger gap to the Evenepoel group at the end, not gaining bonus seconds. I think in different circumstances, some of them would've gone harder and the gap would be bigger. If Bernal would've been alone, he would've gone harder imo. But he prob felt Landa&co play it safe and he won't drop them anyway

I'm not really sure what you're even arguing here. Yeah, if circumstances were different, and there was another km of climbing or whatever, maybe the gap would have been bigger, maybe Evenepoel would have come back (definitely possible imo), maybe someone else would have cracked, who knows...

 

[Panda Claws]

What surprised me was how Evenepoel led the chasing group all the way to the finish. You would think that someone like Yates would take over to minimize the gap but he didnt. Not sure if Remco is so much weaker than Bernal etc. as it appeared in the time gap.
Definitely don't think you can make sweeping conclusions about him not handling the cold because of the way he looked. Sagan never looks like he is dying but then just Drops. Voigt made a name out of An exaggerated painface that made it look like he could go deeper in the red than others.