Teams & Riders The Remco Evenepoel is the next Eddy Merckx thread

[Big Doopie]

no but one has accomplished hell of a lot more than Remco by the age of 21 and hasnt got even close the hype, I wonder why

oy. Very specifically misinterpreting what I am saying. No previous cyclist had achieved what Remco achieved by the age he was as he started Lombardy last year.

that is a simple fact.

without the crash there is no telling what his palmares would be at 21.

and how ridiculous to bring up Pog. As if I am somehow diminishing his accomplishments. Btw when I started the Bernal vs Pog vs remco thread, in the opening post I actually suggested that Pog should be favored to win last years TDF. Yes. I called it MONTHS before it happened. In other threads I have also said that - unless injured or has bad luck - Pog will likely win the TDF again this year And handily. So don’t pull that bull. Puhleeze.

it is pointless now comparing the two because of the crash. Pog is better. All I am saying is we now have to wait a bit longer on remco.

 

[Blobs]

thats what I am wondering about, why ? I mean their accomplishments are nor really comparable so far; if everything really works out for Remco he will be at best equal to Pogacar
Is Remco some kind of superstar persona like Sagan ? NO
I dont get it

His results as a junior and the fact that it didn't take him long to seemingly be able to dominate in a similar manner among the pros, combined with the way he does it. He can attack in any terrain and do long solo rides to the finish, putting minutes into his competitors, which is just exciting.

Pogacar is clearly a phenomenon, but his style is a bit more predictable. He generally attacks on the climbs near the end of the race, and although he does it an an extremely high level, it's just not as exciting. At least to me.

Edit: I should add that it's not that I don't think Pogacar is exciting. He is one of the most exciting current pro's, I just see Evenepoel as an outlier and I think a lot of people do, which explains the extra attention he gets.

 

[Big Doopie]

Nope, completely different. Because Bernal won a GT already, something Evenepoel hasn't yet.

If Evenepoel races San Sebastian and is badly beaten, THEN it's comparable. Then judging his future prospects on San Sebastian 21 and not 19 is like judging Bernal on the 20 Tour....

The team to blame? So far they handled him well...Why does Remco have to be blameless and virtually perfect?

1. I think u are misrepresenting/misunderstanding what I meant. I was simply saying that it was similar to saying Bernal would never win another GT because he underperformed once because of injury and abandoned. Same, because remco underperforms because of injury and abandons, people are writing him off at 21. I am simply saying don’t write anyone off simply because they underperform for damn good reasons.

2. again, I have often suggested that it was remco’s Confidence/arrogance And ambition that was as much to blame for stupidly lining up at the giro in his first race back without enough training.
Please do not lump me in with these “others” you all complain about. I have been fairly nuanced in my posts.

 

[Bonimenier]

I think it's a good thing that he's going to ride some smaller stage races. See how that goes and make the decision of participation in the Vuelta on that.

I hope they decide to let him do the national TT after all. It would be nice to see both van Aert and Evenepoel there after they initially both weren't going to start.

 

[Andre]

I've only raced in amateur races, so I have a question for the experts. How will Remco be taught or trained to be a better descender and positioning? I mean will they have a certain rider or riders in Quickstep help him along during rides ? 50% will now probably be psychological (to remove the fear or add confidence).

 

[titan31]

Seems strange to go for the Vuelta if ride your first GT in the Giro after a cold open being short some base fitness while also aiming for the Olympics in the meantime.

I'm not sure he should do the Vuelta aswell. At least doing it for GC, if they bring him they should have him there as a helper and stage hunter rather than going for GC imo. I don't think the route suits him really (lack of TTing the usual Vuelta style explosive climbs).

For this year, I'd be thinking he should do some races before Olympics, Olympics, and then maybe do the stage races at Poland and Binckbank and some of the late season classics. If he does Vuelta instead, just target the TTs and the mid mountain stages (looking at profile you've 7,15 and 20)

 

[Blanco]

lol again.

The “hype” was based on the simple fact that not a single rider in the history of cycling had accomplished what remco had done by the age of 20. Not one.

And what exactly did he accomplish? Won San Sebastian and Tour of Poland, is that it?! Is that the feat that no one did in the whole history of cycling?
He's 21 now, in his age Coppi won a freaking Giro, Merckx won Milan-San Remo and finished on the podium at Lombardia, Van Steenbergen won Ronde Van Vlaanderen, Jempy Monsere won Lombardia, Freddy Maertens finished 2nd in both Ronde and the Worlds, Pogacar finished on the podium of La Vuelta, and Sagan won that same Tour of Poland.
So no, he did not accomplished what no one did.

 

[Panda Claws]

thats what I am wondering about, why ? I mean their accomplishments are nor really comparable so far; if everything really works out for Remco he will be at best equal to Pogacar
Is Remco some kind of superstar persona like Sagan ? NO
I dont get it

Because there are more Belgians on here and Evenepoel got more spectacular wins imo (though in smaller races ofc).
Plus the story of a kid not touching bikes and then dominating is more exciting than a more traditional path like Pogacar.

And imo Remco does have a bit more of a star factor than Tadej but yeah it's debatable and I won't argue that it's like Showman Sagan.

Probably mostly the Belgians factor.

 

[Riek s]

Nope, completely different. Because Bernal won a GT already, something Evenepoel hasn't yet.

If Evenepoel races San Sebastian and is badly beaten, THEN it's comparable. Then judging his future prospects on San Sebastian 21 and not 19 is like judging Bernal on the 20 Tour....

The team to blame? So far they handled him well...Why does Remco have to be blameless and virtually perfect? He's a cocky bastard, as long as he delivers that's ok. See what Gilbert said last year. Pretty sure Remco was all for starting this Giro. And rightly so. Experience. That will help him in his next GT. Which hopefully will be the Vuelta. Why be afraid of defeats, try again. If you all want him to wait until he's virtually sure to fight for the podium he'll never start another GT. And it's not like he was completely hopeless. He just wasn't as good as some of his fanboys here claimed he would be. Now afraid he'll fail again at the Vuelta? He shouldn't be. Get more experience.

Let him recover a bit, if he's recovered well enough Belgium Tour. to get race km. Or Slovenia. Adriatica Ionica. Some one day races, Appennino, whatever. Prepare the Olympics, when back go to the Vuelta. Where you'll expect a Top 10.

And the Giro has given some answers. He isn't a natural climber, we kind of knew that. But neither are most of the GT winners,But his San Valentino performance, dropped, then back, was actually good. Much better than spending the rest of the Giro in the Gruppetto. Send him to the Vuelta and see, the chances he delivers a solid top 5 performance there are much much bigger than they were in the Giro. Long term his GT, if there is one for him, will be the Tour. Send him there 22.

I don't agree on that his GT is only the tour, but yeah way to soon for me to say that since he still needs to prove he can handle any GT. but I agree on everything else

And what exactly did he accomplish? Won San Sebastian and Tour of Poland, is that it?! Is that the feat that no one did in the whole history of cycling?
He's 21 now, in his age Coppi won a freaking Giro, Merckx won Milan-San Remo and finished on the podium at Lombardia, Van Steenbergen won Ronde Van Vlaanderen, Jempy Monsere won Lombardia, Freddy Maertens finished 2nd in both Ronde and the Worlds, Pogacar finished on the podium of La Vuelta, and Sagan won that same Tour of Poland.
So no, he did not accomplished what no one did.

kind of easy to use his current age after a 9months down time due to injury to evaluate his performance when he was 19/20...

edit: and lets not forget the covid year that wasn't good at all for many cyclists... and when cycling started again, he crashed.


wonder if all those other riders @ 21 can say the same? Stop comparing ages, you can't compare since they might not mean the same thing. Maybe can you reverse it in start the number of years they started racing and compare that difference? just as useful.

 

[Panda Claws]

And what exactly did he accomplish? Won San Sebastian and Tour of Poland, is that it?! Is that the feat that no one did in the whole history of cycling?
He's 21 now, in his age Coppi won a freaking Giro, Merckx won Milan-San Remo and finished on the podium at Lombardia, Van Steenbergen won Ronde Van Vlaanderen, Jempy Monsere won Lombardia, Freddy Maertens finished 2nd in both Ronde and the Worlds, Pogacar finished on the podium of La Vuelta, and Sagan won that same Tour of Poland.
So no, he did not accomplished what no one did.

I don't think any of those picked up a bike at 17 and just rode off the front in their age category and then also started crushing it when they went pro.

I am not gonna claim who was the most impressive early but you need to Paint a more complete picture.

 

[PalcMora]

I'm not sure he should do the Vuelta aswell. At least doing it for GC, if they bring him they should have him there as a helper and stage hunter rather than going for GC imo. I don't think the route suits him really (lack of TTing the usual Vuelta style explosive climbs).

For this year, I'd be thinking he should do some races before Olympics, Olympics, and then maybe do the stage races at Poland and Binckbank and some of the late season classics. If he does Vuelta instead, just target the TTs and the mid mountain stages (looking at profile you've 7,15 and 20)

Hopefully Quickstep will not make the same mistake twice and put him on a leadership position at the Vuelta!



#FreeLogic-Is-Your-Friend

 

[Pinot's goat]

I'm not sure he should do the Vuelta aswell. At least doing it for GC, if they bring him they should have him there as a helper and stage hunter rather than going for GC imo. I don't think the route suits him really (lack of TTing the usual Vuelta style explosive climbs).

For this year, I'd be thinking he should do some races before Olympics, Olympics, and then maybe do the stage races at Poland and Binckbank and some of the late season classics. If he does Vuelta instead, just target the TTs and the mid mountain stages (looking at profile you've 7,15 and 20)

If you are a good climber, which Evenepoel is, then La Vuelta suits you. He just needs race fitness and he will be able to compete near the front for three weeks.

 

[Bonimenier]

If you are a good climber, which Evenepoel is, then La Vuelta suits you. He just needs race fitness and he will be able to compete near the front for three weeks.

I would actually think that la Vuelta suits him the least of the 3 GT's. With all the explosive muros at the end he would lose time on everyone with a bit of a kick even if he can follow them uphill. And also generally la Vuelta isn't overloaded with TT's where he potentially could take that time back.

 

[topt]

His results as a junior and the fact that it didn't take him long to seemingly be able to dominate in a similar manner among the pros, combined with the way he does it. He can attack in any terrain and do long solo rides to the finish, putting minutes into his competitors, which is just exciting.

Pogacar is clearly a phenomenon, but his style is a bit more predictable. He generally attacks on the climbs near the end of the race, and although he does it an an extremely high level, it's just not as exciting. At least to me.

Edit: I should add that it's not that I don't think Pogacar is exciting. He is one of the most exciting current pro's, I just see Evenepoel as an outlier and I think a lot of people do, which explains the extra attention he gets.

I dont know of a current GC riders that attacks more than Pogacar, I mean I would only put MVP ahead of him based on that but he is not a GC rider.
I dont see that outlier, Remco is not more exciting than Pogacar, he perhaps was in junior in pros just no. Attacking from 50km out wont work here

 

[topt]

I don't think any of those picked up a bike at 17 and just rode off the front in their age category and then also started crushing it when they went pro.

I am not gonna claim who was the most impressive early but you need to Paint a more complete picture.

roglic bought first bike at 21, does that make him more exciting.
We all know what this is about, like you said its nationality based, so its quite understandable that a lot of non belgians wont like the hype

 

[18-Valve. (pithy)]

Note that Evenepoel said that he wanted to return to the Giro "someday". Translation: not anytime soon.

He has the 2022 Tour de France on his mind. Best believe he wants to prove himself as a GT specialist / talent at the 2021 Vuelta, if form allows.

IMO he's not wrong. Prep won't be ideal due to the Olympics, but the team can use that as a (valid) excuse, so it's all good. No one will expect him to podium.

 

[topt]

oy. Very specifically misinterpreting what I am saying. No previous cyclist had achieved what Remco achieved by the age he was as he started Lombardy last year.

that is a simple fact.

without the crash there is no telling what his palmares would be at 21.

and how ridiculous to bring up Pog. As if I am somehow diminishing his accomplishments. Btw when I started the Bernal vs Pog vs remco thread, in the opening post I actually suggested that Pog should be favored to win last years TDF. Yes. I called it MONTHS before it happened. In other threads I have also said that - unless injured or has bad luck - Pog will likely win the TDF again this year And handily. So don’t pull that bull. Puhleeze.

it is pointless now comparing the two because of the crash. Pog is better. All I am saying is we now have to wait a bit longer on remco.

nope, i didnt misinterpret anything, I said that Pogacar has achived more than remco till the age of 21, heck we could debate even if Pogacar third place in vuelta is worth more than Remco has ever done.
You dont see the problem here, one guy a clear phenom won TDF at 21 has 56 pages, Remco a work in progress that at his best if everything works out could become another Pogacar has 227

 

[Panda Claws]

Xonfi

roglic bought first bike at 21, does that make him more exciting.
We all know what this is about, like you said its nationality based, so its quite understandable that a lot of non belgians wont like the hype

Roglic really is not comparable in regard of how much he did with that bike at first and you know it.
If Roglic had been winning Clasica San Sebastian in 2008 then there would have been hypethreads about him back then too (ofc the forum did not exist back then).

The 'buying the bike at a late age' alone is now what makes Evenepoel an exciting prospect lol. It's what he did with it.

Roglic's thread was made when he was 26 and the opening sentence of the first post there says it all.
"I've had this thread in my mind for awhile now. I've just been waiting for his first successful race/stage. 3rd place in a stage in Algarve isn't exactly what you'd call a big success, but with a bad shoulder (he dislocated it at TDU) it's a very nice result and a sign of good things to come. This is a learning year for this young man. He is 26 but has the experience of a neo pro. Believe it or not, he bought his first bicycle in 2012. "

Actually doing something on the road is the sine qua non of being a hyped prospect. That he started cycling late is a bonus, albeit imo an important one. Results are the hook and then Remco's age and backstory reeled them in.

I'm not dismissing that nationality plays a part I'm saying that it's not fully reducible to that. Literally the first post in this topic also goes on and on and on about how he hadn't touched a bike before. But if you think that's all 'window-dressing' we best agree to disagree.

 

[peterfin]

So no, he did not accomplished what no one did.

Yes he did. He is without a doubt the best junior ever and he may be the most dominant pro at the age of 20 if you look at the winning %. Study his pages at procyclingstats. The kid started winning the very first races he entered in late 2017. His 2018 stats are just incredible. How he did it was also impressive (just watch his junior WC title as an example). When joining the pro's immediately after, it took him just 5 months to get up to speed and win his first stage race followed by a semi classic, TT and silver at the TT WC. In his second year as a pro he won all 4 stage races he entered, winning at least one stage as well. He would have won Il Lombardia without that crash and I am sure he was in a good spot to battle for the giro podium and stages as well. All of this before turning 21.

 

[topt]

Yes he did. He is without a doubt the best junior ever and he may be the most dominant pro at the age of 20 if you look at the winning %. Study his pages at procyclingstats. The kid started winning the very first races he entered in late 2017. His 2018 stats are just incredible. How he did it was also impressive (just watch his junior WC title as an example). When joining the pro's immediately after, it took him just 5 months to get up to speed and win his first stage race followed by a semi classic, TT and silver at the TT WC. In his second year as a pro he won all 4 stage races he entered, winning at least one stage as well. He would have won Il Lombardia without that crash and I am sure he was in a good spot to battle for the giro podium and stages as well. All of this before turning 21.

you only forgot to add he would be up there with Bernal fighting for the stage in Campo Felice if he hadnt almost touched the wheel in the tunnel

 

[Bonimenier]

nope, i didnt misinterpret anything, I said that Pogacar has achived more than remco till the age of 21, heck we could debate even if Pogacar third place in vuelta is worth more than Remco has ever done.
You dont see the problem here, one guy a clear phenom won TDF at 21 has 56 pages, Remco a work in progress that at his best if everything works out could become another Pogacar has 227

Obviously there is no doubt on who of the 2 archieved the most so far. I suppose if you compare it at the age when Evenepoel (+-20,5 yo) dove in the ravine that it's also quite clear, but the other way around. I don't think that's the fairest of comparisons though because Pogacar turned pro at an older age. Just as the comparisons now aren't the fairest either because of that crash of Evenepoel. Let's just hope for cycling's sake that we get some nice battles in the upcoming years between all these youngsters.

 

[Blobs]

I dont know of a current GC riders that attacks more than Pogacar, I mean I would only put MVP ahead of him based on that but he is not a GC rider.
I dont see that outlier, Remco is not more exciting than Pogacar, he perhaps was in junior in pros just no. Attacking from 50km out wont work here

He has already successfully done some of those long range attacks against some very qualified opposition. My point wasn't really about frequency of attacks though, but predictability. I'm not saying one is better than the other or trying to convince you of anything, just trying to explain the extra attention Evenepoel gets, from the perspective of someone who finds him more exciting than Pogacar. It's just an opinion, and you're free to have your own, although mine does seem to be more popular

 

[victorschipolrijk]

Can't help but think this isn't exactly the best Olympic prep either.

Most logical explanation is that Lefevre has used Evenepoel as sponsor bait. That or they just overestimated what he could do this Giro.

All in all, going to the Giro as a GC effort seems really stupid. With this route, and the Tour route as they are. Or if you don't want that, then try the Vuelta which is more low key and gives plenty of recovery time.

Yes, now is crystal clear that Lefevere used Evenepoel as sponsor bait.
He was portrayed as the second coming of Jesus, he was going to win everything, and just a la big Eddie, on top of that, he was able to beat Bernal on a hard fought sprint, where he was able to reduce the deficit with Bernal by a whole 1 second.

Amazing how gullible people are, and not only the fools that populate online forums, but also the Deceuninck leadership, right after the legendary sprint, and during the rest day Lefevere announced a 6 years deal with Deceuninck .
Then Remco goes busted.
That will teach'em.
In the meantime paying bills for 6 years.
Congrats Lefevere!! You are the best gold digger cycling has ever known.

 

[Panda Claws]

Yes, now is crystal clear that Lefevere used Evenepoel as sponsor bait.
He was portrayed as the second coming of Jesus, he was going to win everything, and just a la big Eddie, on top of that, he was able to beat Bernal on a hard fought sprint, where he was able to reduce the deficit with Bernal by a whole 1 second.

Amazing how gullible people are, and not only the fools that populate online forums, but also the Deceuninck leadership, right after the legendary sprint, and during the rest day Lefevere announced a 6 years deal with Deceuninck .
Then Remco goes busted.
That will teach'em.
In the meantime paying bills for 6 years.
Congrats Lefevere!! You are the best gold digger cycling has ever known.

Do you think Evenepoel will suck the coming 6 years? Else this really doesn't matter. But then at least we have a bold statement to work with.

The sponsor bait theory sounds plausible but realistically Evenepoel just had to show that he could still ride a bike without grimacing. I doubt his actual performance influenced decision-making much beyond that. Especially the 1s grab.

It's not like QST was a bad team without Evenepoel anyway.

 

[victorschipolrijk]

Do you think Evenepoel will suck the coming 6 years? Else this really doesn't matter. But then at least we have a bold statement to work with.

The sponsor bait theory sounds plausible but realistically Evenepoel just had to show that he could still ride a bike without grimacing. I doubt his actual performance influenced decision-making much beyond that. Especially the 1s grab.

It's not like QST was a bad team without Evenepoel anyway.

Evenepoel won't fulfill expectations.
If he was physically on another level, as many people believe, he woulda made big time playing football.

And, no, Deceuninck was not a bad team, specially having Almeida, because Deceuninck has never been a GT team, with Almeida they got lucky, but then they decided to cast their lot with the unproven local boy.

But then, folks got caught in this feverish hype, because since 1978 there has not been a Belgian GT winner, and they desire one.

Well, good luck, I don't think he's gonna make it.

And he has a big chip on his shoulder.

Eddie Merckx, just said that Evenepoel has to improve in many areas.

Don't take it from me, take it from Eddie Merckx.