Teams & Riders The Remco Evenepoel is the next Eddy Merckx thread

[wheresmybrakes]

^ This. Maybe if he had done a pre race or two before going into the Giro, some of these weaknesses may have shown up. Hindsight again. They could have worked on them and gone for other races later in the year. Shame he's had to leave after another crash, hope he recovers quickly and gets back working on what went wrong during this race.

 

[limak_]

If he falls short of the expectations people will always point at that crash and say "what if" rather than admit their expectations were wrong.

Realistically, if he doesn't have any persistent complications casued by that crash (as much as I know he doesn't), I can't see any reasons why he wouldn't come back to his pre-crash shape in 100% and that this crash would have any long term impact on him, to use it as a justified excuse. I get your point that people will say "what if" regardless, but I just wanted to say that there's completely no reasons for that.

The main obstacle, in terms of his future success, that I see know, is the way he's been managed by his team. If the future decisions that they'll make about him will be equally"reasonable" as the decision to do this year's Giro, then I'm starting to really doubt about him fullfiing even 50% of the expectations. And then the excuse "what if he had been managed properly" will be just on point.

 

[Red Rick]

You're doing slightly more then questioning the hype and you know it.
I think everybody agrees there is a hype and expectations were way too high. And hypes are never good. But you're doing the exact same in the opposite direction. Probably because you just like being contrair.

I also said his first week was a positive and we probably need to wait for his first GT of 2022 before we know more.

 

[limak_]

You're quite firm in your reaction, but I am pretty sure he could have held that curve if his apex line wasn't blocked by the AG2R rider. He was squeezed in his position.
The outcome would have been that he ended up like the Astana rider (stopping just in time), but then he needed the apex to correct his line and brake.
Now the only option was to brake, while being squeezed in the outer section of the curve. Braking while turning = drifting towards the barrier.

And you can't just judge his speed. Other riders were braking. He can blame him for trying to overtake (or ride next to) the AG2R rider, but if the crash wasn't there, the AG2R rider would have taken the apex and all would have been fine.
Blaming Remco for this crash is like blaming a sprinter's crash because something happened in front of him in the last 200 meters.

Can't agree with you. I think he couldn't redirect himself to his apex line no matter of AG2R rider. He just made the most common mistake - didn't adjust his speed while also taking the wrong line.

For me it seems like Eolo (not Astana) and Alpecin riders in front of him were exactly on the same line as he was. The difference is they entered the corner with lower speed so they could slightly correct the line (instead of going straight into barriers) and they had enough time to brake.

So it's definitely not like blaming sprinter's crash because something happened in front of him. Remco's mistake is just imo very clear in this case.

 

[Volderke]

Can't agree with you. I think he couldn't redirect himself to his apex line no matter of AG2R rider. He just made the most common mistake - didn't adjust his speed while also taking the wrong line.

For me it seems like Eolo (not Astana) and Alpecin riders in front of him were exactly on the same line as he was. The difference is they entered the corner with lower speed so they could slightly correct the line (instead of going straight into barriers) and they had enough time to brake.

So it's definitely not like blaming sprinter's crash because something happened in front of him. Remco's mistake is just imo very clear in this case.

We agree to disagree
My only other argument: if he really took this curve this bad, and the crash is due to speed / position, he should have crashed already a zillion times in previous stages.
As he didn't do that, I still believe it's mostly being unlucky with not having space to correct, rather than him not being able to take that curve properly (*)

(*) properly = by Remco's subpar curve-taking standards

 

[Eclipse]

He took a dreadful line as a result of making a bad decision to try overtake someone on the outside of a fast tight corner.

Might not have crashed if he wasn't noticing the crash ahead of him, but even then he would still be making a big enough correction to lose the speed he was carrying and it's another symptom of poor decision making and a lack of natural racing nous.

Lots to work on to make sure it doesn't become a regular habit

 

[Volderke]

Might not have crashed if he wasn't noticing the crash ahead of him, but even then he would still be making a big enough correction to lose the speed he was carrying and it's another symptom of poor decision making and a lack of natural racing nous.

Lots to work on to make sure it doesn't become a regular habit

One can only imagine, with the Giro having 1000ths of curves, if Remco loses some meters in EVERY single technical curve downhill, how much more effort he has been doing to compensate for losing positions / meters / closing gaps?

 

[Riek s]

^ This. Maybe if he had done a pre race or two before going into the Giro, some of these weaknesses may have shown up. Hindsight again. They could have worked on them and gone for other races later in the year. Shame he's had to leave after another crash, hope he recovers quickly and gets back working on what went wrong during this race.

To be fair, there was no option to do that. He was barely ready to race for the Giro. Any race that would have been a month earlier while he was still trying to do minimum volume training. guess the only alternative were other races or the Giro, but not the combination.

 

[jaylew]

...but first he has to fully recover his shape from pre-Lombardy. If he never does, then all bets are off and it will be, in my mind, one of the biggest “what could have been”’s in sports.

I also don't think he's back at those levels (why would he be) but can he recover fully and still not meet the expectations his fans have for him or will it always be because of the crash? I don't want to speak for him but I feel like this is what Red Rick is getting at. I mean, if he gets back to winning tts and some shorter stage races with tts and puts on a display in stages or one-day races here and there but doesn't quite get there in GTs or become a multi-monument winner will it be a "what could have been" for you because of the crash or will it be that he just didn't progress they way we thought he would as has happened to so many other prodigies?

Personally, I think he's going to be fine and will have a great palmares in the end even if I'm not completely sure how it will be comprised.

 

[Panda Claws]

I also don't think he's back at those levels (why would he be) but can he recover fully and still not meet the expectations his fans have for him or will it always be because of the crash? I don't want to speak for him but I feel like this is what Red Rick is getting at. I mean, if he gets back to winning tts and some shorter stage races with tts and puts on a display in stages or one-day races here and there but doesn't quite get there in GTs or become a multi-monument winner will it be a "what could have been" for you because of the crash or will it be that he just didn't progress they way we thought he would as has happened to so many other prodigies?

Personally, I think he's going to be fine and will have a great palmares in the end even if I'm not completely sure how it will be comprised.

I think it'll honestly depend on how Evenepoel and the team communicate this. I think that if the injury holds him back in some way then there will at least be rumors about it.

If nothing is said about it I don't think that that many people will talk of 'what-if'. Because I don't think that Evenepoel is going to talk about the injury holding him back unless that really could be the case.

Will also depend on how good his career ends up being of course. On this forum for example I believe that most are willing to accept it if Evenepoel ends up simply not being a GT rider. But if he never comes close to doing well in hilly classics again then that would be harder to accept.

 

[Big Doopie]

I also don't think he's back at those levels (why would he be) but can he recover fully and still not meet the expectations his fans have for him or will it always be because of the crash? I don't want to speak for him but I feel like this is what Red Rick is getting at. I mean, if he gets back to winning tts and some shorter stage races with tts and puts on a display in stages or one-day races here and there but doesn't quite get there in GTs or become a multi-monument winner will it be a "what could have been" for you because of the crash...?

no. it won't.

all i am saying is first i need to see him back in 2020 form doing exactly what you suggest. if he then is unable to compete in GCs, then absolutely I will accept it for what it is with no "crash excuses".

however, i do need to see that first: "winning tts and some shorter stage races with tts and puts on a display in stages or one-day races here and there".

judging Remco on this giro is a bit like determining based on the 2020 TDF, that Bernal was overhyped and would never again win a GT...

 

[Panda Claws]

From an interview with Lefevere

Wat gaat Evenepoel nu doen?
"Leren sturen. Neen, we zullen zijn programma wat omgooien. Hij zou normaal weer op hoogtestage gaan, maar we zullen nu denk ik nog een paar koersen inlassen voor Tokio."

What will Evenepoel do now?
"Learn to steer (laughs). No we are going to change up his program a bit.* Normally he would be going on altitude stage again but now we will probably plan a couple of races before Tokyo."


So it looks like we might see Evenepoel in action again soon. In the Belgium Tour and the TT Nationals probably.

*Elsewhere in the interview he does say that they planned to have him train bike handling and will do so in the future. It'll just be during the off-season.
**Interestingly enough PCS must have insider info because that site claims he will ride the Vuelta this year lol. (https://www.procyclingstats.com/rider/remco-evenepoel/calendar/calendar)

 

[The fridge in the blue trees]

judging Remco on this giro is a bit like determining based on the 2020 TDF, that Bernal was overhyped and would never again win a GT...

Nope, completely different. Because Bernal won a GT already, something Evenepoel hasn't yet.

If Evenepoel races San Sebastian and is badly beaten, THEN it's comparable. Then judging his future prospects on San Sebastian 21 and not 19 is like judging Bernal on the 20 Tour....

The team to blame? So far they handled him well...Why does Remco have to be blameless and virtually perfect? He's a cocky bastard, as long as he delivers that's ok. See what Gilbert said last year. Pretty sure Remco was all for starting this Giro. And rightly so. Experience. That will help him in his next GT. Which hopefully will be the Vuelta. Why be afraid of defeats, try again. If you all want him to wait until he's virtually sure to fight for the podium he'll never start another GT. And it's not like he was completely hopeless. He just wasn't as good as some of his fanboys here claimed he would be. Now afraid he'll fail again at the Vuelta? He shouldn't be. Get more experience.

Let him recover a bit, if he's recovered well enough Belgium Tour. to get race km. Or Slovenia. Adriatica Ionica. Some one day races, Appennino, whatever. Prepare the Olympics, when back go to the Vuelta. Where you'll expect a Top 10.

And the Giro has given some answers. He isn't a natural climber, we kind of knew that. But neither are most of the GT winners,But his San Valentino performance, dropped, then back, was actually good. Much better than spending the rest of the Giro in the Gruppetto. Send him to the Vuelta and see, the chances he delivers a solid top 5 performance there are much much bigger than they were in the Giro. Long term his GT, if there is one for him, will be the Tour. Send him there 22.

 

[Pinot's goat]

**Interestingly enough PCS must have insider info because that site claims he will ride the Vuelta this year lol. (https://www.procyclingstats.com/rider/remco-evenepoel/calendar/calendar)

Evenepoel mentioned this previously in an interview.

 

[kingjr]

Seems I have to retract my earlier comment, don't know if it was here or in the thread for yesterday's stage, that the team made a mistake giving the no. 91 to Remco. Lefevere says, in the interview mentioned above, that the race organizer assigns the bib numbers.

"Ik [...] heb ook altijd gezegd dat we met 2 kopmannen daar waren, maar niemand geloofde mij. Ook door die rugnummers, Evenepoel was 91 en Almeida 92, maar de organisatie deelt die uit. Wij niet."

"I always said we had two leaders, but nobody believed me, partly because of the bib numbers. Evenepoel was 91 and Almeida 92, but it's the organization who assigns them, not us."

Link

 

[Red Rick]

Seems strange to go for the Vuelta if ride your first GT in the Giro after a cold open being short some base fitness while also aiming for the Olympics in the meantime.

 

[Blobs]

Your words, not mine.

People are very reluctant to tone down the hype/admit it was over the top. Happens so much with tennis players. The amount of guys who are considered clowns or mentally weak or not committed to the sport cause they couldn't live up to the expectations is *** ridiculous.

The last time we've seen anything that could be compared to Evenepoel in tennis was Nadal.

Sure the expectations for the giro were too high, but Remco had lived up to all the hype, and basically performed better than expected, in nearly every race up until his crash.

 

[Salvarani]

Better manage the kid more carefully. Both mentally and physically or he will quickly become the greatest talent that never was.

 

[Red Rick]

The last time we've seen anything that could be compared to Evenepoel in tennis was Nadal.

Sure the expectations for the giro were too high, but Remco had lived up to all the hype, and basically performed better than expected, in nearly every race up until his crash.

The problem with tennis is it's not very incomparable to cycling.

 

[Blobs]

The problem with tennis is it's not very incomparable to cycling.

Agreed, but you made that comparison. I was just making the point that the last time we saw someone making such great results at a young age in tennis, he actually did live up to the hype.

 

[Carrick-On-Seine]

I was always a bit sceptic about rushing him to the Giro with no racing before it.

They could have send him to ride Romandie + the Tour de Suisse to prepare for the Olympics and get back into racing (maybe have him work a bit on his descending with Ala in the pre-Tour training camp). If he goes well and keeps getting better and better (and gets used to fighting for positions and descending in a bunch once again) you can always send him to the Vuelta after he has some racing in his legs.

I'm wondering if the Giro paid an appearance fee for him and that they couldn't get out if it.

 

[topt]

lol again.

The “hype” was based on the simple fact that not a single rider in the history of cycling had accomplished what remco had done by the age of 20. Not one. You can certainly have questions about where it will all lead, but minimizing what he had already done is, yes, ignoring the facts.

And then repeating ad nauseam that he will amount to nothing, is also fact-free...because the facts suggest otherwise.

can one put a “moderator” on ignore if the “moderator” is a troll? I haven’t tried yet, but getting real close.

no but one has accomplished hell of a lot more than Remco by the age of 21 and hasnt got even close the hype, I wonder why

 

[Panda Claws]

no but one has accomplished hell of a lot more than Remco by the age of 21 and hasnt got even close the hype, I wonder why

Not really relevant. We can justifiably hype up Evenepoel without having to hype up Pogacar to the same degree. I don't think anyone here is going to dispute his talent. There is also a whole specific thread to debate who of them is best.

All in all I think he mostly gets less attention. But yes I will grant you that some posts here talk of Evenepoel as if there are no other great talents. But the MRI (Most Respectful Interpretation) rule would urge you to look at the thread title and see this as due to carelessness rather than maliciousness.

 

[topt]

Not really relevant. We can justifiably hype up Evenepoel without having to hype up Pogacar to the same degree. I don't think anyone here is going to dispute his talent. There is also a whole specific thread to debate who of them is best.

All in all I think he mostly gets less attention.

thats what I am wondering about, why ? I mean their accomplishments are nor really comparable so far; if everything really works out for Remco he will be at best equal to Pogacar
Is Remco some kind of superstar persona like Sagan ? NO
I dont get it

 

[kingjr]

thats what I am wondering about, why ? I mean their accomplishments are nor really comparable so far; if everything really works out for Remco he will be at best equal to Pogacar
Is Remco some kind of superstar persona like Sagan ? NO
I dont get it

The first post in this thread may be helpful.